Unsupportive SOs

[geodrake]

Stupid question, but the situation is really irritating me. My hubby and I are both Masters students. I apply for all sorts of grants and scholarships in my "free time" while he reads "fun" books instead of working on assignments (to let his mind "rest"). I come up with side research projects while I'm waiting for field season to start up (because, well, I'm insane) and work on writing articles. He reads "fun" books (to let his mind "rest"). I take care of our daughter 90% of the time, and he usually grumbles if I ask him to take her to school. Whatever. Irritating, but I can deal because while he works at a slower pace, he tends to be more thoughtful and comprehensive in his schoolwork (when he cares about it). Different personalities, I get that. What bothers me is that when I inform him that I get received a scholarship, he grunts acknowledgement and maybe a half-hearted "that's nice". Now I'm a finalist for a leadership award and he had the audacity to ask me "what the hell kind of leadership experience do YOU have?!?". I pointed out all the organizations I'm an officer in/helped start, the lab coordinator responsibilities I have + TAing, conference presentations, publications, etc. and he actually said "that's not leadership, it doesn't count". *BLINK* I'm sorry? WHAT? Clearly it counts if I'm a finalist. Seriously, WTH? Why can't a guy be happy for a wife that's excelling? If I see something, I go for it (I'm not about to leave it up to chance that a professor might submit my name for something). He takes the attitude that it's not right to ask, or why bother, he has other things to work on. It's not like he's even trying for these things and I'm receiving the awards instead of him, I could understand that... is he being that unsupportive or is he jealous he's not getting awards/acknowledgments? I'd appreciate a guy's perspective, as I do NOT understand the male species at all... they make NO sense.

Thanks!

[joro]

I'm going to give my own interpretation on the male species. They prefer not to think their actions out and typically end up in situations which could have been avoided. They prefer to be the successful one among their group/family. I would guess this is how a typical male acts? I think he finds it more as you bragging about your success and probably finds it a bit annoying. He probably was okay with it first, but it could have gone to the point where it seems like you're just telling him how much better you are than him. Just my personal view on things.

[oldlady]

I am very empathetic -- it's tough when your SO doesn't give you what you want. I would suggest, however, that sometimes the issue is less gender-realted and more family-of-origin-norms-related. It may be helpful for the two of you to take turns talking about how your families of origin responded to your good news when you were kids, and what you would like from the other now. (Bear in mind that it is quite challenging to change behaviors, even when one wants to.) Perhaps your SO's behavior is more of a reflection of his experiences than of his feelings for you.

[geodrake]

I'm going to give my own interpretation on the male species. They prefer not to think their actions out and typically end up in situations which could have been avoided. They prefer to be the successful one among their group/family. I would guess this is how a typical male acts? I think he finds it more as you bragging about your success and probably finds it a bit annoying. He probably was okay with it first, but it could have gone to the point where it seems like you're just telling him how much better you are than him. Just my personal view on things.

I try not to tell him when I get an opportunity, since he keeps getting upset (boggles the mind, one would think funding's a good thing). I actually made a point of not telling him about this one for a week or two. However, when I got confirmation of the interview time, I let him know that I wouldn't be able to have lunch with him between our classes because I needed to go to the interview, hence the response.

I did bring it up today though, and after a bit of back and forth, he settled on "what I meant to say was what are the prerequisites for the award, since I think of leadership as Student Government". Fair enough, I'll go with the semantics, since I had the same thought when I read the title vs. the requirements (the reason I even looked at it in the first place was to pass it on to two other students I thought would be a good fit, but it turned out the award was for a full year and they're graduating next term). It's still irritating though. If he was getting awards or interviews or whatever I'd be thrilled for him! =/

[timuralp]

I'd appreciate a guy's perspective, as I do NOT understand the male species at all... they make NO sense.

All generalizations are dangerous, even this one (Dumas). Maybe he's feeling insecure? Is the MS really what he wants to be doing? Maybe he's channeling his frustration at you for something that's bothering him and misery loves company? Have you tried explaining to him how you feel and asking what's going on with him?

I don't know the answer, but I would try to work it out with the person causing you grief. Also, not telling him about stuff would probably just make it worse, as he might think you're hiding stuff from him and are ashamed of him or something. Good luck.

[Pamphilia]

I try not to tell him when I get an opportunity, since he keeps getting upset (boggles the mind, one would think funding's a good thing). I actually made a point of not telling him about this one for a week or two. However, when I got confirmation of the interview time, I let him know that I wouldn't be able to have lunch with him between our classes because I needed to go to the interview, hence the response.

Congrats on being a finalist for the award! A pre-emptive caveat: obviously I don't know your individual situation, so the following comment might be really off-base and worthless. But my personal and instinctive reaction to this issue is as follows:

If your spouse gets pissy when you succeed, that's just too bad for him. You absolutely should not hold back on celebrating or at the very least acknowledging your own accomplishments. If he can't deal with it, it's his own problem. Of course, I'm not advocating boasting or anything, and I realize that he might feel competitive with you in some ways (especially if you're in the same field) and so he might be a little sensitive that you're turning into a rock star and he's not rising quite so quickly. Of course, try to be sensitive to his feelings. But please don't hide your badassery! And make him take the dang kid more than 10% of the time. Sheesh. It's 2010 for crying out loud.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Pamphilia

[grendel]

Am I the first man to respond?

Congrats on the accolades. You deserve some praise and encouragement, especially from your husband. You're right, he really should be more supportive, but I think timuralp may have hit the spot: he might be insecure or even miserable in his own academic situation. I felt this way once, when I was miserable in school (pursuing a useless MS-course) and consequently sneered at my friends' and family's success, perhaps doubting their worthiness. I'm over it now (on the right track again) and am again confident enough to take joy in others' success.

[joro]

Am I the first man to respond?

I'm pretty sure that I'm male.

[rising_star]

That situation sounds like it sucks. What I would do is not hide my accomplishments from him. Find out if he really wants to be in grad school and, if not, encourage him to pursue what it is he wants. It sounds to me like jealousy, bitterness, or something deeper.

[johndiligent]

I agree that it really sounds like jealousy emerging from insecurity. I think rising_star is right that it's probably time for a frank conversation about whether he still wants to be in grad school or whether he's still studying what he really wants to study. The fact that he's always reading books for fun (which I assume means outside of the purview of his thesis or even his discipline) makes me wonder if he's become far more interested in something else.

Either way, I think he needs to find out why he's so insecure, so that he can actually be happy for you and not view you as a competitor.

[wordslinger]

It's really frustrating when you work really hard, but other people chalk it up to "luck" or good circumstances or whatever. I have felt this way with my SO before as well.

IMO, better to go ahead and have an honest convo with him about how it makes you feel. Bottling up frustrations never actually makes it better.

[ilikemoney]

Perhaps this is too straightforward/simple-minded, but I think you need to call your husband out. Given how you describe the situation, it sounds like he is being a dickhead. Yeah, sure, maybe he's unhappy with what he is doing right now. But if he is old enough to be married and have a kid, it's time to act like an adult. If he is attacking you for your success, that is totally unacceptable. Jealousy is one thing. Jealous people don't need to belittle you ("that's not even leadership!")....

Just my two cents.

[Malumat]

Wow. Since you're married, I assume you share expenses, so when you put effort into scholarship applications to ease your shared financial burden, it benefits him too, not to mention your whole family. The fact that he doesn't appreciate that is pretty disturbing to me, especially alongside the info you gave about him not contributing to raising your child. I think you need to have a serious talk with him about his denigrating behavior toward your pursuits at the very least, but it sounds like there are a host of other issues as well. What you are describing does not sound like a healthy relationship.

[Postbib Yeshuist]

I think the only person who can answer this is your husband. I would suggest sitting down and basically telling him what you said in this post. Use "I language" (I feel, I perceive, etc). Tell him this is serious and you really feel like he's dismissing your accomplishments, and possibly even insulting you. If you approach it from a "this hurts me" angle, his reaction should tell you a lot. If he again dismisses your perspective, there are some deeper issues at work and you might consider counseling. On the other hand, he might genuinely not be aware of how his reaction affects you and a good, honest talk will help him understand.

[RH7]

Stupid question, but the situation is really irritating me. My hubby and I are both Masters students. I apply for all sorts of grants and scholarships in my "free time" while he reads "fun" books instead of working on assignments (to let his mind "rest"). I come up with side research projects while I'm waiting for field season to start up (because, well, I'm insane) and work on writing articles. He reads "fun" books (to let his mind "rest"). I take care of our daughter 90% of the time, and he usually grumbles if I ask him to take her to school. Whatever. Irritating, but I can deal because while he works at a slower pace, he tends to be more thoughtful and comprehensive in his schoolwork (when he cares about it). Different personalities, I get that. What bothers me is that when I inform him that I get received a scholarship, he grunts acknowledgement and maybe a half-hearted "that's nice". Now I'm a finalist for a leadership award and he had the audacity to ask me "what the hell kind of leadership experience do YOU have?!?". I pointed out all the organizations I'm an officer in/helped start, the lab coordinator responsibilities I have + TAing, conference presentations, publications, etc. and he actually said "that's not leadership, it doesn't count". *BLINK* I'm sorry? WHAT? Clearly it counts if I'm a finalist. Seriously, WTH? Why can't a guy be happy for a wife that's excelling? If I see something, I go for it (I'm not about to leave it up to chance that a professor might submit my name for something). He takes the attitude that it's not right to ask, or why bother, he has other things to work on. It's not like he's even trying for these things and I'm receiving the awards instead of him, I could understand that... is he being that unsupportive or is he jealous he's not getting awards/acknowledgments? I'd appreciate a guy's perspective, as I do NOT understand the male species at all... they make NO sense.

Thanks!

I could be way off the mark with you two, but I don't think your husband would take you seriously if you try talking to him (contrary to what most people here say). I'm in a similar situation. My girlfriend and I are both in college, and we're both highly competitive. Whenever good things happen to me, I'm ten times as happy when something good happens to her. But when nothing happens to me, well, I think it's only natural to feel defeated. And I may even do other things (like read for fun) to justify why nothing is happening to me. And as this pattern continues, I'd probably sink deeper and deeper.

In his defense (come on, no negs here), I think its easier for you to feel happy for him when something good comes along, because you are in a better position. It's probably very difficult for you to put yourself in his shoes. And I think the more things that work out for you and not for him, it will only make his attitude worse, might even make him less motivated to even try, and will probably make him feel more insecure about himself. I'm sure talking to him will probably sound patronizing and condescending.

I think the best thing for him to do is to find something that motivates him again and that will raise his self esteem. Nobody wants to be the loser, not even you. But as I think was rightly said above, there is nothing wrong from your position, you shouldn't hold back on your hard work and accomplishments. Its really his problem and something only he could/should fix.

[geodrake]

RH7, I believe you're absolutely right, even down to the reading books part. And talking to him only makes it worse. Now he's to the point where he just needs to get his thesis proposal accepted (version 4 ro 5 now). Instead, he's building model airplanes over break. Oy!

[cherubie]

RH7, I believe you're absolutely right, even down to the reading books part. And talking to him only makes it worse. Now he's to the point where he just needs to get his thesis proposal accepted (version 4 ro 5 now). Instead, he's building model airplanes over break. Oy!

Honestly, I think that unless there are some fundamental problems in your relationship (NOT related to academia), you just need to take a step back and let him do his own things, and learn the things he need to learn. Of course, you guys are legally bound to each other, so this may be easier said than done. If he wants to "slack off" (the impression you're giving) over breaks, then let him. If his thesis doesn't get accepted, than it's his own doing- he'll learn his lesson. I think it seems like you're a very motivated, independent, hard-working person, and he seems to be almost the opposite- but that doesn't mean that you're better or he's worse. When my fiance and I started dating, we had very different work ethics also. While he studied in the library (we met in college) till 2 a.m., I was doodling in my books. While he went over past exams for our statistics course, I took 5 hour "naps". I ended up not doing so hot, while he ended up getting an A. He never pestered me to study, neither did he needed my recognition of his achievements. I learned my lesson, and shaped up in my other courses. When we were both studying for the GRE and GMAT, respectively, while he would close the books at 7p.m., I studied until 11. I felt he was slacking, when he felt I was being too hard on myself. Seems like you and your SO are almost similar to me and my fiance, we just have different methods than our SO's. Just because you don't enjoy building model airplanes or reading fun books, or that you'd rather spend your "breaks" working, doesn't mean he has too also. As far as he not being supportive, that's not an academia problem- that's a relationship problem that you need to figure out, and think about whether you want to be with someone like that or not.

[shepardn7]

What bothers me is that when I inform him that I get received a scholarship, he grunts acknowledgement and maybe a half-hearted "that's nice". Now I'm a finalist for a leadership award and he had the audacity to ask me "what the hell kind of leadership experience do YOU have?!?". I pointed out all the organizations I'm an officer in/helped start, the lab coordinator responsibilities I have + TAing, conference presentations, publications, etc. and he actually said "that's not leadership, it doesn't count".

My first reaction to this exchange is .

I don't think you need to talk to him about his work ethic, because that's his business to work out, but I do think you could try talking to him about his indifferent and sour reactions to your good news. Talk it out calmly and rationally, remembering that he might be feeling insecure. Because it's the little things that can count the most. He doesn't need to be whooping and hollering if he's feeling like a loser, but he could at least give you a congratulatory hug and/or a smile with a few words of congrats, rather than argue with you about whether or not you deserve the award at all. I think it's very important that two people in a relationship actively support each other. It would hurt my feelings and likely cause a fight if I told my fiance I won an award for my work and he replied with a bored "that's nice"--I can't even imagine how I'd feel if he (without joke or sarcasm) said I wasn't qualified or good enough to win it. Of course, no one needs to be in a good mood all the time, but if this is a recurring scenario, you should address it before you both start resenting each other. But given the months since your initial post, I'm assuming you've already tried talking about it?

[TheDude]

I second speaking with him about the negative affectivity that arises as a result of your good news. Those kind of interactions compound over time. As far as his work ethic goes... he digs what he digs. I worked with an academic who would leave everything to the last second and then just pour out some high-tier work. Some people just let thoughts marinate differently.

I speak for most men: We are morons. Spell it out, hand it to us and then tell us what it says. Then... don't ask us to color in the lines.

Edited January 3, 2011 by musicforfun

[Eigen]

Wow, a 10 month old thread revival... that's really something

I assume the situation is still the same?

If so, I'll add my comment:

I'm thrilled when my wife does well, and there's no one I'd prefer to outperform me. We're both working on our PhDs, and the more funding she gets the better off we are as a couple! And the more successful she is, the easier it is for us to get faculty positions somewhere, what with the whole "two body" problem.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Eigen

[Grimm101]

It's really unfortunate that he doesn't share in your enthusiasm, but people handle things differently. While doing all the work you do is commendable, it seems exhausting. You're working 10x harder than your husband for the same result; a degree. It's great that you are getting extra funding, but maybe he feels that you've taken control away from him. I know, why can't he just talk to you about it? Well, men don't function that way. They aren't great communicators and they definitely don't respond to nagging. Also, the two of you are in graduate school at the same time. This just begs for increased competition between SO's. I've heard from a few profs that academic couples sometimes hit rock bottom and enter splitsville by competing. It starts with research funding, tenure track and pay, published works, and conferences. These academic/professional issues spill into the home and create problems. Instead, maybe try to establish a happy middle ground with your SO. Some couple's therapy might help not only your relationship, but help you understand why you tackle things so differently. I wish you both luck and hope that everything smoothes out soon.

[StrangeLight]

how about this?

don't talk to your husband about work. ever. if you and he were in totally different fields, or one of you wasn't in grad school, then i guess it can be okay to talk about with some frequency, but when you do the same work, or work together, DO NOT bring the shop talk home. leave the time you have together to the discussion of all the other many parts of your lives.

don't monitor what work he is doing versus what work he should be doing. that's his decision. except for the raising of your child. make him do more of that (although i sense you exaggerated how little time he spends with your child, but if not, really... make him spend more time with the kid). if you need to say you have an interview or won a fellowship, then say it plainly and don't take it personally when he doesn't jump up and down about it. if those sorts of things were important to him, he'd be applying for every fellowship or award he could as well.

is this all a recent change in his behaviour? was he once a type-A go-getter than got ahead on every project and seized every opportunity that presented itself to him? or has he always behaved like this, and over time, it's really getting to you? if the former, then ask him what's wrong, what has changed, discuss the alteration in his behaviour. if the latter, understand that this is simply the way he is and you're trying to change him, directly or indirectly.

[NadaJ]

I disagree with Miliania; the OP and her SO are not getting the same thing--he is working (albeit halfheartedly) towards a piece of paper, she is working her butt off for the sake of knowledge, experience, and learning, along with the piece of paper. They may be in the same program, but they are not getting the same thing. OP, it sounds like you have found your passion and you are working hard towards your goal, and your SO has not. He may be jealous that you've found your passion and he has not. I don't have any advice, but to maybe down play your accomplishments (for the time being) and/or helping him discover what he is passionate about. Grad school is not the end all. GL!