Yale vs. Notre Dame

[pax et caritas]

Hey, everyone. I was told this morning that I was accepted off the waitlist for Notre Dame's MTS in Moral Theology. Until this point, I had been settled on Yale's MDiv; I had assumed that past April 15 there wasn't any chance of getting in off the waitlist. So getting in today has left me a tiny bit confused. I still feel like I'm leaning toward Yale, but I think that might partly be because I've spent the last couple weeks thinking that is in fact where I'm going. 

Notre Dame offers full tuition plus a stipend (I'm not sure what the stipend is yet, but I'm going to have a call about the offer soon), and Yale is offering me full tuition. Have any of you made this decision, or one similar? I'm not certain what I'd like to do after my M*, but I'm considering teaching high school (preferably at either a Catholic high school or classical academy), attending law school, or going for a PhD in political theory. I think both programs would prepare me quite well to do any of these things, so I don't really know what should be my major considerations. Any suggestions?

[xypathos]

I'd pick Notre Dame, I think. At the very least you'll graduate with much lower debt. Yale's offer only covers tuition so everything else you need to decide.

If you do want to seriously consider teaching in Catholic schools, ND's name carries far more weight. Doesn't ND also have a M* in religious education for students that want to teach? I imagine having the ability to get a course or two under your belt in pedagogy or something would be beneficial.

I can't speak to ND directly, but presumably their curriculum would permit you to take courses in political theory or in a number of departments?

 

[Mvem]

On 4/29/2020 at 5:14 PM, pax et caritas said:

Hey, everyone. I was told this morning that I was accepted off the waitlist for Notre Dame's MTS in Moral Theology. Until this point, I had been settled on Yale's MDiv; I had assumed that past April 15 there wasn't any chance of getting in off the waitlist. So getting in today has left me a tiny bit confused. I still feel like I'm leaning toward Yale, but I think that might partly be because I've spent the last couple weeks thinking that is in fact where I'm going. 

Notre Dame offers full tuition plus a stipend (I'm not sure what the stipend is yet, but I'm going to have a call about the offer soon), and Yale is offering me full tuition. Have any of you made this decision, or one similar? I'm not certain what I'd like to do after my M*, but I'm considering teaching high school (preferably at either a Catholic high school or classical academy), attending law school, or going for a PhD in political theory. I think both programs would prepare me quite well to do any of these things, so I don't really know what should be my major considerations. Any suggestions?

I would like to enquire. I was also waitlisted in Notre Dame for a PhD in EEE on the 9th of April. I was told I will hear back by April 15th but I haven't heard back from them. I emailed DGS and GC last week but nothing from them. Do you have any idea of what is going on, though I suppose admin issues due to the covid situuation but this seems a little bit too long. I also saw a rejection on the 13th April in my Department on the result page 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Mvem

[pax et caritas]

3 hours ago, Mvem said:

I would like to enquire. I was also waitlisted in Notre Dame for a PhD in EEE on the 9th of April. I was told I will hear back by April 15th but I haven't heard back from them. I emailed DGS and GC last week but nothing from them. Do you have any idea of what is going on, though I suppose admin issues due to the covid situuation but this seems a little bit too long. I also saw a rejection on the 13th April in my Department on the result page 

I'm not sure about your case, especially as it's for a PhD, but I know Covid certainly affected my case. Given the strangeness of our situation right now, I think some students have asked for extended deadlines to accept/reject their offers, so universities are having to balance those requests with the need for people on the waitlist to be notified in a timely manner. If you haven't heard anything at all, I assume something like this has happened, and that they're hoping things will be sorted out soon enough so they can reach back out to you. In my case, someone had accepted their offer, and then ended up rescinding it. I was the first person on the waitlist, so then it went to me. 

And in case it's helpful information to anyone reading this, I decided yesterday to choose Yale. 

[Mvem]

3 hours ago, pax et caritas said:

I'm not sure about your case, especially as it's for a PhD, but I know Covid certainly affected my case. Given the strangeness of our situation right now, I think some students have asked for extended deadlines to accept/reject their offers, so universities are having to balance those requests with the need for people on the waitlist to be notified in a timely manner. If you haven't heard anything at all, I assume something like this has happened, and that they're hoping things will be sorted out soon enough so they can reach back out to you. In my case, someone had accepted their offer, and then ended up rescinding it. I was the first person on the waitlist, so then it went to me. 

And in case it's helpful information to anyone reading this, I decided yesterday to choose Yale. 

That might be a possibility but the silence from GC and DGS can be unsettling. An email can clarify me on the situation but they don't reply at all. Secondly do you have an idea how many were wailtlisted in your case

Edited May 4, 2020 by Mvem

[Boolakanaka]

On 5/4/2020 at 12:19 PM, Mvem said:

That might be a possibility but the silence from GC and DGS can be unsettling. An email can clarify me on the situation but they don't reply at all. Secondly do you have an idea how many were wailtlisted in your case

This is anecdotal, but I have heard (and these are in other disciplines and programs than religion) that many top tier programs, say like Harvard Kennedy School, because of such unprecedented low yields have gone to a third waitlist to pull folks  into admission. So, you never know during this uncertain times...

[pax et caritas]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:19 PM, Mvem said:

That might be a possibility but the silence from GC and DGS can be unsettling. An email can clarify me on the situation but they don't reply at all. Secondly do you have an idea how many were wailtlisted in your case

Yeah, I think they ought to at least give you a sense of what’s happening. And I’m not sure how many were on the waitlist. I hope things become clearer soon!

[Mvem]

I just have to wait and see 

[11Q13]

I'm biased perhaps, but I think your first move should be to follow the money. Notre Dame is offering you more, and it's also very cheap to live there. There is also a strong theology community at ND as well, and the department is looked up to and highly respected across the rest of the university, unlike Yale where they will think of you as those weird wizards up on the hill. 

[sacklunch]

Agreed. ND has a much better reputation than Yale Div. Again, I'm speaking of the M* level. The reason: ND is simply much harder to get into than YDS, especially considering we are here talking about ND's MTS vs YDS's MDiv. Completely different ballpark. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by sacklunch

[dr. t]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:39 AM, 11Q13 said:

it's also very cheap to live there

This is not without reason.

Have you been to South Bend? Can you take 2(?) years there?

[sacklunch]

39 minutes ago, telkanuru said:

This is not without reason.

Have you been to South Bend? Can you take 2(?) years there?

I couldn't, to be fair. Though I don't think I could handle New Haven either. Both are pretty terrible.

[11Q13]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:20 AM, telkanuru said:

This is not without reason.

Have you been to South Bend? Can you take 2(?) years there?

It's cheap to live there because of steel and auto manufacturing collapse of half a century ago meant more housing than people needed and problems with poverty. Nothing to do with Notre Dame. I suppose it really depends on your interests, but I lived there for five years and was never bored. There are a ton of intellectually stimulating events going on constantly, including a steady stream of Theology events, Notre Dame has fantastic sports obviously, there's a great local craft beer scene, and plenty of nature around. If you really need to get away, you can take the train to Chicago. You also need a major reality check if you think you'll have a lot of time on your hands, though. You have two years. You will spend most of your time in the amazing library.

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, 11Q13 said:

Nothing to do with Notre Dame.

Except that's where you live if you want to go there. It was a dealbreaker for me. Sounds like it wasn't for you.

[sacklunch]

Good points, both of you. My experience visiting and interviewing there was it's 'ok' if you're a Christian with more traditional social interests. Every single doctoral student I met was Christian and most of them had families. This isn't a criticism, but is only to say that this seemed to have a big impact on the overall social and academic climate there. Most people will have no problem with that climate--because they are 'those' people. 

[11Q13]

22 hours ago, telkanuru said:

Except that's where you live if you want to go there. It was a dealbreaker for me. Sounds like it wasn't for you.

I don't know what kind of tour you took or if it was decades ago, but it sounds like you're really misinformed. The area around campus is really posh if anything, nothing but brand new townhouses and apartments. The adjacent town of Mishawaka is also fairly affluent. Going to ND,  within a fifteen minute drive you have your choice of anything from a McMansion to the ghetto, and there's also the on-campus housing somewhere in between.

[11Q13]

17 hours ago, sacklunch said:

Good points, both of you. My experience visiting and interviewing there was it's 'ok' if you're a Christian with more traditional social interests. Every single doctoral student I met was Christian and most of them had families. This isn't a criticism, but is only to say that this seemed to have a big impact on the overall social and academic climate there. Most people will have no problem with that climate--because they are 'those' people. 

As the only single guy (who wasn't a priest) for a couple years, this is very true in the PhD. My solution to it was that I made friends with the philosophers, English folks, and engineering grad students who are mostly single. Just meant that I spent time with the family oriented theology PhDs in other contexts like church picnics and bbqs.

[dr. t]

8 hours ago, 11Q13 said:

I don't know what kind of tour you took or if it was decades ago, but it sounds like you're really misinformed.

You seem very defensive, for some reason. Housing choice and safety had very little to do with why I didn't like South Bend.

[SocialKonstruct]

I went to Yale and had acquaintances at the Divinity School. It was pretty awesome and they are very open-minded.

Definitely ideal for comparative religion.

[sacklunch]

2 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

I went to Yale and had acquaintances at the Divinity School. It was pretty awesome and they are very open-minded.

Definitely ideal for comparative religion.

For a Divinity School, the students, at least the ones I've known, are indeed open minded (as are the faculty). As for studying comparative religion there, good luck? I'm sure they have some good course offerings and obviously Yale U is a different question altogether, but I very much doubt whether YDS is 'ideal' for studying comparative religion. It's a Divinity School and as such many if not most of its classes will have a theological component and thus will be viewed as 'inappropriate' (et sim.) by many academics in the field of religious studies. But in any case, the original question relates to moral theology and for that subfield YDS is a fine choice (though ND is far better known for that subfield).

Edited May 15, 2020 by sacklunch

[Mvem]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:08 AM, Boolakanaka said:

This is anecdotal, but I have heard (and these are in other disciplines and programs than religion) that many top tier programs, say like Harvard Kennedy School, because of such unprecedented low yields have gone to a third waitlist to pull folks  into admission. So, you never know during this uncertain times...

Emailed both GC and DGS since 2 weeks now but no reply from them. Very unsettling, if I am rejected from the waitlist won't that be easy to let me know. The silence is just unsettling and I feel this is already very late for any positive outcome. I know covid might have caused some issues but this is May 15th which is enough time to resolve anything 

[Mvem]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:40 AM, pax et caritas said:

Yeah, I think they ought to at least give you a sense of what’s happening. And I’m not sure how many were on the waitlist. I hope things become clearer soon!

Still silence from the department. I don't know what to make of it anymore