EileanDonan Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) Hi everyone, I'm curious to hear some thoughts as to the most advisable ways of addressing poor circumstances that impact academic performance and opportunity. I've been caught in a rather difficult situation myself. I had a lot happen during my undergrad, including loss of an immediate family member concurrent with effective financial ruin for my parents. Long story short, this resulted in me taking on considerable student debt I was never intended to have. Because of my financial concerns, I wasn't able to take advantage of a lot of some of the same sort of opportunities that a lot of my psych student peers had. Although I actually managed to maintain a high GPA, I wasn't able to do things like completing a senior thesis because I needed to graduate a semester early to save money (staying longer would have incurred significant additional cost). This latter fact especially bothers me now because it seems a given that every clinical psych Ph.D. program (my goal) applicant has completed an undergrad thesis. I'm worried about having to compete against everyone in a way that I can't really compensate for - should I even be bothering to try? It goes without saying I can't afford an MA (including the additional time cost). Unfortunately, there is a 0% chance of a serious independent project on the horizon for me now. I'm afraid of POIs seeing my app and immediately throwing it out because I didn't do a thesis, thinking I was too unmotivated (extremely untrue) or lazy to challenge myself. Honestly, I think a lot of my undergrad experience threw off my ability to compete in the post-BA world. Is there a graceful way of acknowledging this gap and mentioning I couldn't complete a thesis due to unfortunate financial issues beyond my control? Or is there another route I should be considering? Some way of emphasizing other strengths in spite of what I'm lacking? Any helpful suggestions, or thoughts from those who have been through a similar situation, would be really appreciated. I've had a lot working against me, and I'm just trying to find a way forward without giving up my dream. Thanks! Edited May 15, 2020 by EileanDonan
Aghhhhh Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 Honestly, I didn't complete an undergrad thesis, and I still got into a clinical psych PhD program my first round. Don't count yourself out! I did take a gap year and I did some independent research during that time (no publications, just posters & presentations). If you have zero presentations, I would consider taking a year or two to join a lab as a paid RA or, even better, RC to get those under your belt before applying.
Psychintraining Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 I got into multiple PhD programs without a thesis! I don’t think this is super important at all. What is important is showing in depth research experience and a solid direction that lines up with your POIs. In order to do demonstrate this, i would definitely recommend getting a job for a few years as a research assistant. Not only will this help your application, but you will be making actual money and be able to start paying back some of the loans. Things might be difficult to find right now, but Im sure some labs are still hiring and even if not you can always wait another year. Dont point out any flaws you think you see in your application. Rather, take a couple years and fill in the gaps where you see those flaws. Modulus 1
EileanDonan Posted May 15, 2020 Author Posted May 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Psychintraining said: I got into multiple PhD programs without a thesis! I don’t think this is super important at all. What is important is showing in depth research experience and a solid direction that lines up with your POIs. In order to do demonstrate this, i would definitely recommend getting a job for a few years as a research assistant. Not only will this help your application, but you will be making actual money and be able to start paying back some of the loans. Things might be difficult to find right now, but Im sure some labs are still hiring and even if not you can always wait another year. Dont point out any flaws you think you see in your application. Rather, take a couple years and fill in the gaps where you see those flaws. I'm glad to hear the first part, it's nice to know that I don't have to entirely rule myself out necessarily. Unfortunately, I've been trying to land a full-time research gig for over a year now - things are just so insanely competitive, even if you did have a good experience in undergrad.
Psyche007 Posted May 15, 2020 Posted May 15, 2020 As non-traditional student, I spent a lot of time working in the field at the Bachelor's level and did a great deal of independent reading. I could speak confidently to multiple interests and topics in the discipline. I have the most clinical experience in my cohort, including the few individuals with a clinical Masters. Completing research seems to be a matter of logistics. Programme acceptance is heavily based on goodness of fit, personally and academically. You don't have to walk the path well-trodden. You can fashion a new road and duck all the stones.
EileanDonan Posted May 16, 2020 Author Posted May 16, 2020 22 hours ago, Psyche007 said: As non-traditional student, I spent a lot of time working in the field at the Bachelor's level and did a great deal of independent reading. I could speak confidently to multiple interests and topics in the discipline. I have the most clinical experience in my cohort, including the few individuals with a clinical Masters. Completing research seems to be a matter of logistics. Programme acceptance is heavily based on goodness of fit, personally and academically. You don't have to walk the path well-trodden. You can fashion a new road and duck all the stones. I appreciate this, thank you. One thing that I've been trying to focus on recently is developing my (otherwise very strong) research interests beyond the abstract. Would you be willing to offer some advice on ways to better conceptualize interests and translate them into more specific talking points, especially in order to maximize goodness of fit come application time? Psyche007 1
Modulus Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 On 5/16/2020 at 5:29 PM, EileanDonan said: I appreciate this, thank you. One thing that I've been trying to focus on recently is developing my (otherwise very strong) research interests beyond the abstract. Would you be willing to offer some advice on ways to better conceptualize interests and translate them into more specific talking points, especially in order to maximize goodness of fit come application time? For me, this came in a flash--I had for years (and three application seasons) thought I was interested in one area. I could talk passionately about it in abstract, but struggled to come up with specific ideas. I figured those would come in grad school, but they were certainly a limiting factor in interviews. When I pivoted to a different area, the difference was immediately apparent. This area was one I'd been naturally drawn to and was already engaged in research in. It wasn't a theoretical disposition--it was a proven passion, and each article I read percolated new specific ideas in my head. From my experience, it's important to figure out what that is for you. Read literature--lots of it, and start out more broadly or in areas tangential to what you aim to study--and follow your interest that way, instead of seeking out papers that fit a preconceived notion of your interests. Chugwater2020 1
Psyche007 Posted May 18, 2020 Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) On 5/16/2020 at 5:29 PM, EileanDonan said: I appreciate this, thank you. One thing that I've been trying to focus on recently is developing my (otherwise very strong) research interests beyond the abstract. Would you be willing to offer some advice on ways to better conceptualize interests and translate them into more specific talking points, especially in order to maximize goodness of fit come application time? 'Goodness of fit' is more of a personality thing. Can't really prep for it, outside of a willingness to be honest and recognize that a program that initially looks ideal may in fact not be. Spend some time figuring out who you are, your values, life goals, what gives you meaning. Some applicants like to present a face they think makes them appear desirable, but insincerity and inauthenticity are not impossible to detect. Besides, you won't be able to keep up an act for five years, so you may as well get offers based on who you are rather than who programmes think you are. My personal research interests are quite abstract and unrelated to a specific demographic or discipline within the literature. I read around the subject frequently, delving into general philosophy, philosophy of science, and related disciplines such as neuroscience. This gave me new perspectives from which to analyze and conceptualize my interests. You have to read outside of psychology in order to develop the ability to synthesize and articulate your research questions. I think this was a good way to compensate for a lack of publications, posters, and lab work, because I demonstrated an ability to think for myself. Edited May 18, 2020 by Psyche007 Added info on being yourself.
PsyZei Posted May 25, 2020 Posted May 25, 2020 I did undergrad in two years and, obviously, did not do any research. I come from poverty and did not go to high tier school, so research wasn't even an option (they didn't even have psych graduate programs). I found a master program at a slight better university that gave me a GA for the first year (and I ended up taking out loans for the second year), and I made sure to get research experience during that program. It's not ideal, but it worked for me. That said, I would also just be honest. I was pretty up front in my personal statement about my background and journey to getting an education. I will mention that I had pretty high GRE scores and had work experience, prior to starting college, in a related field (community outreach with couples and families) to what I want to do with my degree. I agree with Psyche007 about being yourself. Just be honest about your journey and what you want, authenticity has a way of selling you that trying to polish up the rough edges often doesn't work as well for (in my experience).
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