PsyD / PhD / MSW Etiquette - Okay to Apply to All?

[RebeccaPsych]

Hi, all!

If a school has multiple programs you're interested in, what's the etiquette there? 

Can I apply to their PsyD AND their PhD programs? And, if I do, is it going to be weird using the same personal statement (only slightly altered)? Any misc. tips to know about here? I don't want to make a faux pas. 

Thanks! 

[amazingbutternutsquash]

Applying to two programs at the same school is definitely fine! The personal statement is a balancing act though, because you don't know how much the two programs talk to each other -- that means that you probably want your research interests/career goals to be very similar for both programs. At the same time, the departments are probably different enough they have separate strengths, and you would want to separately (and specifically) detail how each program will help you reach your goals. 

[PsyDuck90]

I would check with each school. For instance, Rutgers does not allow you to apply to both the PhD and PsyD programs. MSW programs are usually housed in different departments so they may not know. However, there may be communication. With that, I would consider the benefit of that MSW program. The doctoral faculty may question your desire to complete a doctorate over a masters--as in, why should they take you if you can accomplish your career goals with an MSW? Not saying they necessarily would, but that is a possibility. 

[Clinapp2017]

More of a random comment, but do you have $$$ to spend on application fees? It may make sense to consider which path you think will best fit your future career needs and apply to schools with that degree (e.g., maybe a mixture of PhD/PsyD at different schools, or just MSW). 

 

If you want to be a psychotherapist and not do research or cognitive assessments, you are probably fine to do a MSW and get licensed in your states. Saves you $$$ in other years PsyDs require and saves you time, as the road to being a practicing clinician is quicker. Being called "Dr" for the mountains of debt that an unfunded PsyD or PhD program can bring is probably not worth it in most instances; funded PhD (or the few PsyD) are ideal.

[SocDevMum]

Check with each grad school's requirements - when I was applying, most of the schools on my list only allowed you to apply to one program per application season. So, I couldn't apply to both the PhD and Masters programs at the same school. 

[RebeccaPsych]

Thank you all for the advice! 

 

@amazingbutternutsquash Right!! In regards to interdepartmental communication, I wouldn't be surprised either way. I think my default plan would be to keep the first part of my statement the same (about my psych experience), and then rewrite the latter portion (about why I'm applying to the program). I'm not sure if that would be sufficient or not. 

@PsyDuck90 Believe it or not, Rutgers was probably the first school I had in mind here! So, that's definitely good to know. I wouldn't have expected each school to have a different policy, but I guess that about makes sense looking at the rest of the grad app process. That's all really helpful. Thank you! 

@Clinapp2017 A good question! I haven't even looked into app fees yet... In regards to the rest of the funding: That's a big reason I was initially going to just apply to PhD programs, because they are usually funded. But, then I heard that PsyD programs can offer funding, it just depends on the school. MSW is expensive, but at least shorter. Possibly less debt than a PsyD. I feel like none of the degrees are perfect, which is frustrating. I want to focus on clinical work but still have the benefit of a research background. That would probably be a PsyD. But, I don't want to be in a mountain of debt. 

@Randi S Ah, bummer! Generally, all the PsyD/MSW programs I'm interested in are at schools that also have PhD programs I'm interested in. Thanks for that information! I'll have to start checking that out. 

 

[Mickey26]

Check if their housed in the same department/school. For example, I considered applying for school psych and counselling psych, however for this one institution, they were both housed in the same Department (Education). And the SAME coordinator processed applications for BOTH programs. I was informed not to apply for both in this case b/c it appears that you haven't fully figured out what you wanted to do, and thus, most likely would have been rejected from the get-go. Good luck!

[PsyDuck90]

1 hour ago, RebeccaPsych said:

But, then I heard that PsyD programs can offer funding, it just depends on the school. MSW is expensive, but at least shorter. Possibly less debt than a PsyD. I feel like none of the degrees are perfect, which is frustrating. I want to focus on clinical work but still have the benefit of a research background. That would probably be a PsyD. But, I don't want to be in a mountain of debt. 

By and large, the PsyDs worth applying to offer funding. The ones that don't are more often associated with reputations of being diploma mills. Look at incoming class sizes. Some PsyDs have cohorts of 80+ students and offer poor funding if any, and then others have cohort sizes of 10 or less, and they offer more funding options. Quality, university-based PsyDs have a pretty commensurate research program to balanced PhD programs. For instance, I am at a funded university-based PsyD and I am spending my summer working on 3 separate manuscripts I am co-authoring (2 with faculty and 1 with a psychologist from my practicum site), as well as analyzing some pilot test data for my dissertation. During the semester, we spend at minimum 8-10 hours a week on lab related activities, but it usually comes out to more. 

Research is important for good clinical skills. If you don't know how to do the research, it is much more difficult to critique the research coming out and separating good science from junk science. Even if you aren't planning on a research career, having an in depth understanding of research methodology and statistics is going to go a long way when examining research on efficacy and effectiveness of treatment interventions and assessment tools, which inform good, evidence-based practice. 

[RebeccaPsych]

@PsyDuck90

Thank you for this! 

 

I agree. While research isn't the ~reason~ I got into psychology, I think it's necessary to maintain good clinical practice. I do worry that an MSW wouldn't necessarily give me the tools I'd need to keep up with current research and appropriately apply it. 

 

In terms of PsyD programs, I've picked out a few potentials: 

Rutgers

George Washington U

Indiana State

U of Colorado

Baylor

To be honest, I mainly just googled "good PsyD programs," or "PsyD programs that provide funding". Indiana State and Rutgers, though, both came recommended. I'll need to dig deeper. 

 

At the time, I didn't appreciate the convenience and simplicity of College Board. There are just too many grad options! I feel like I've been chasing my tail for a year now.  

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by RebeccaPsych

[PsyDuck90]

A lot of them will still require a research match. What I did when looking for programs to apply to is I looked at recent pubs within my area of interest and then looked up the programs those people were faculty in. I then made sure all the programs had APA-accreditation. Also, check out Norcross's Insider's Guide to Clinical and Counseling Psychology. It has information on pretty much every program that exists. 

[Suraj_S]

It looks like dual-degree Ph.D./MSW paths exist. Have you considered that possibility, @RebeccaPsych?

[RebeccaPsych]

@Suraj_S

 

I've heard just a little about it, but the programs hadn't caught my eye. Do you know much about them? Any insight? 

 

Thanks! 

[PsyDuck90]

1 hour ago, RebeccaPsych said:

@Suraj_S

 

I've heard just a little about it, but the programs hadn't caught my eye. Do you know much about them? Any insight? 

 

Thanks! 

A PHD in social work is a strictly research-oriented degree. There is no doctoral level licensure for social work, so it would be a bit of a different dynamic from a clinical psych PhD in which you spend time on clinical and research training throughout the whole degree and come out as being eligible for a doctoral-level clinical license. Depending on your career goals, a MSW/PhD program may be another option. 

[RebeccaPsych]

@PsyDuck90 

Ah, interesting about the PhD in social work! Wouldn't have guessed that offhand. 

I was just looking into UMichigan's dual social work/clin psych PhD. 

 

[PsyDuck90]

1 hour ago, RebeccaPsych said:

@PsyDuck90 

Ah, interesting about the PhD in social work! Wouldn't have guessed that offhand. 

I was just looking into UMichigan's dual social work/clin psych PhD. 

 

Interesting. Do you have the link? I couldn't find anything on that. I'm curious what that looks like. 

[RebeccaPsych]

@PsyDuck90

 

Let's see... 

Here's the PhD dual degree: https://ssw.umich.edu/offices/phd

Here's an MSW dual degree: https://ssw.umich.edu/programs/msw/overview/dual-degree

 

 

[Suraj_S]

On 6/18/2020 at 12:11 PM, RebeccaPsych said:

@Suraj_S

 

I've heard just a little about it, but the programs hadn't caught my eye. Do you know much about them? Any insight? 

 

Thanks! 

Since you mentioned Rutgers being on your list above, here's a link to their Ph.D./MSW dual-degree path. The only thing about this (and two other such programs that came up on Google) is that it isn't a Ph.D. in psychology. If you're passionate about psychology, most of these dual-degree programs might be too social work-/welfare-focused. If I find any psych Ph.D./MSW dual programs, I'll let you know.

[RebeccaPsych]

On 6/28/2020 at 7:09 PM, Suraj_S said:

Since you mentioned Rutgers being on your list above, here's a link to their Ph.D./MSW dual-degree path. The only thing about this (and two other such programs that came up on Google) is that it isn't a Ph.D. in psychology. If you're passionate about psychology, most of these dual-degree programs might be too social work-/welfare-focused. If I find any psych Ph.D./MSW dual programs, I'll let you know.

Thanks very much!! 

And that's an important point that I'll need to consider. Thank you for noting it.