Georgetown (McCourt) MPP 2021

[bruyeres]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:02 PM, GradSchoolGrad said:

The AVERAGE SALARY for Georgetown MPP grads with jobs coming out off graduation last time they published (about 2015 - they no longer publish since it is lower than that of Georgetown undergrad salary) was $55K. Add some inflation and do the math. 

That's slightly worrying. I make $100k (Canadian) now and work in the field I want to stay in (public sector consulting), so I'm hoping that $55k figure is an average that was brought down by a number of students who didn't really have any work experience before going to grad school. Would be interesting if they reported these numbers 3-5 years after graduating to see if salaries increase

[GradSchoolGrad]

7 minutes ago, bruyeres said:

That's slightly worrying. I make $100k (Canadian) now and work in the field I want to stay in (public sector consulting), so I'm hoping that $55k figure is an average that was brought down by a number of students who didn't really have any work experience before going to grad school. Would be interesting if they reported these numbers 3-5 years after graduating to see if salaries increase

So the way McCourt does data is interesting. They base it off of those who self-report and data clean for jobs like mine they don’t want to advertise (I pivoted to a purely technical role... aka would scream not get a job based upon grad school education. What that means is that that the true average is likely lower because of the non report people who can’t get jobs + international students who struggle in the job market. As with you, your career background most likely means you are set, but you won’t really get a pay bump with McCourt MPP beyond check the block unless you drive something on your own.

[N0197]

What's your read on the health policy centers at McCourt like the Center for Children and Families or the Center on Health Insurance Reforms? And to your knowledge how often are MPP students involved with the work at either center?

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, N0197 said:

What's your read on the health policy centers at McCourt like the Center for Children and Families or the Center on Health Insurance Reforms? And to your knowledge how often are MPP students involved with the work at either center?

So those centers in it off themselves do do interesting work. However, the McCourt name is tagged on them (and their Professors of Practice) to help the McCourt brand at large. As for real student benefit, I would say that beyond branding, they are an at large a Georgetown asset. By that I mean, they have to consider hiring graduate assistants or assistants period equally from all Georgetown sources (McCourt, MSFS, Undergrad, SCS, Law school and etc.). 

Do McCourt students get Grad Assistant roles there, absolutely. Do they have to compete against everyone else - yes. Do they lose to everyone else at times - yes. Do McCourt students lose out to undergrads - absolutely. At the end of the day, the institute/center dictates who they hire, not McCourt. 

Granted it changes every year, but I remember situations where there were 1 slot for 15-20 applicants (of all different programs). 

[taxbat]

Would incoming MPP students have access to career resources? I'm in the process of a semi complicated career pivot, and I'm hoping to get a new job in DC before the fall that would more align with the kind of jobs I could pursue after graduation to give me more relevant work experience. Any insights on using the University resources prior to actually starting classes? 

[GradSchoolGrad]

22 minutes ago, taxbat said:

Would incoming MPP students have access to career resources? I'm in the process of a semi complicated career pivot, and I'm hoping to get a new job in DC before the fall that would more align with the kind of jobs I could pursue after graduation to give me more relevant work experience. Any insights on using the University resources prior to actually starting classes? 

Yes, you can use it for as early as the summer (or so that is the earliest I known people to do so), but as I highlighted previously, career services is already severely strained as and its not like McCourt has strong relations with non tract job placement (like places you can zip in and out and not a formal recruiting process like consulting). You have an okay shot if it is jobs tied to Georgetown. However, good luck getting jobs outside of Georgetown because then you have to compete against the greater competitive DC interested career field. 

Also, unless you are evening student, it is a terrible idea to work full time (or should I say more than 15 hours a week) as a full time student. That is how people lose scholarship and go below a 3.0 GPA. At the very least, you won't take advantage of your experience to network and explore new policy areas of interest. I know someone who worked full time was a full time student - hated his life every day and had blood shot eyes for sleeping 5 hours a day. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[taxbat]

2 minutes ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Yes, you can use it for as early as the summer (or so that is the earliest I known people to do so), but as I highlighted previously, career services is already severely strained as and its not like McCourt has strong relations with non tract job placement (like places you can zip in and out and not a formal recruiting process like consulting). You have an okay shot if it is jobs tied to Georgetown. However, good luck getting jobs outside of Georgetown because then you have to compete against the greater competitive DC interested career field. 

Also, unless you are evening student, it is a terrible idea to work full time (or should I say more than 15 hours a week) as a full time student. That is how people lose scholarship and go below a 3.0 GPA. At the very least, you won't take advantage of your experience to network and explore new policy areas of interest. I know someone who worked full time was a full time student - hated his life every day and had blood shot eyes for sleeping 5 hours a day. 

Ok that's definitely good to know. Part of my draw to GU was being able to make strong DC connections. I did apply for the EP, but I also currently work a very demanding job so time management is no stranger (but hence additional need to switch jobs before the fall). 

[GradSchoolGrad]

I was a bit surprised McCourt even posted this on their website but only 82% (middle chart) of its 2020 Graduates among MPP, MIDP, and DSPP were employed within 6 months after graduation. So 1 in 5.

Keep in mind that they only base this off of who responded to surveys. There is always a number who don't respond to surveys that is suspected to only bring the stats down. They also don't reflect the job composition (as in type of job, level, or pay)

https://mccourt.georgetown.edu/careers-with-impact/employment-outcomes/

[van_96]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

I was a bit surprised McCourt even posted this on their website but only 82% (middle chart) of its 2020 Graduates among MPP, MIDP, and DSPP were employed within 6 months after graduation. So 1 in 5.

Keep in mind that they only base this off of who responded to surveys. There is always a number who don't respond to surveys that is suspected to only bring the stats down. They also don't reflect the job composition (as in type of job, level, or pay)

https://mccourt.georgetown.edu/careers-with-impact/employment-outcomes/

Isn't this to be expected, given the pandemic-induced recession? Their past years seem to be much higher (ex. 97% the year before). I haven't been able to find other comparable schools who have published reports for last year's class yet, but I assume they'll see some slight dips too. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

18 minutes ago, van_96 said:

Isn't this to be expected, given the pandemic-induced recession? Their past years seem to be much higher (ex. 97% the year before). I haven't been able to find other comparable schools who have published reports for last year's class yet, but I assume they'll see some slight dips too. 

Again the 2019 - 97% is based upon self-reporting. I personally know people who didn't self-report because they were too lazy to or too embarrassed to highlight how they didn't have jobs. So even the real number is likely lower than 97%. 

I haven't looked at other Policy schools either, but an 83% should send alarm bells --> 14% dip. When I Iook at top MBA schools class of 2020 vs 2019, they at most have single digit dips (some actually went up) in terms of employment within 6 months. 

My takeaway is that McCourt is so focused on Fed, Fed Consulting, and associated employers, their students and student supporting resources weren't sufficiently nimble enough or diversified enough to pivot when things went digital (and will continue that way in some form even post-COVID. Also, the kicking the career concern down the road culture in McCourt doesn't help either. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[Think Tanker]

18 minutes ago, van_96 said:

Isn't this to be expected, given the pandemic-induced recession? Their past years seem to be much higher (ex. 97% the year before). I haven't been able to find other comparable schools who have published reports for last year's class yet, but I assume they'll see some slight dips too. 

Yeah, this is somewhat anecdotal, but I was at a Tufts Fletcher admitted students webinar yesterday where they said that 80% of 2020 grads had jobs within six months (compared to 93-98% usually). So McCourt might well not be outside of the realm of normality here.

[GradSchoolGrad]

18 minutes ago, Think Tanker said:

Yeah, this is somewhat anecdotal, but I was at a Tufts Fletcher admitted students webinar yesterday where they said that 80% of 2020 grads had jobs within six months (compared to 93-98% usually). So McCourt might well not be outside of the realm of normality here.

Tufts Fletcher is another school - for very different reasons (and some very unique to Fletcher) that hasn't fully postured itself for the future of Policy/IR careers to be future/COVID proof - granted their administration is trying hard. COVID just hit them where it hurts. I wrote about this at length in the forum previously as well. 

McCourt is hampered by the decisions they consciously made or refuse to make about their program.

If you show me how HKS, Harris, SPIA or Heinz had comparable drops, I would buy your pitch (not saying it is wrong, but I would like more evidence to be convinced given how the MBA numbers are so different). 

Edited March 17, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[Kaz_KV]

I reached out and asked for more specific numbers for the DSPP 2020 grads and was told 75% were employed after 6 months. Again, that's a pretty frightening number. Heinz published their numbers for the Data Analytics track and 35 people graduated, 33 responded to the survey, and 28 people reported having offers after 6 months. That number is also low (85%), but it appears to be that 3 of the 5 without jobs are continuing their education (likely PhD bound), and 2 are still job seeking. 

 

Just some numbers for the DSPP program and what I think is an interesting comparison...

[GradSchoolGrad]

Ya, I actually had 2 new graduation DSPP international students reach out to me for job referrals and I kept on trying to explain to them that they were not eligible for National Security roles that needed clearances. Although their program experience was really good, they just thought they could waltz on anywhere and get a job (even those they were ineligible for). I felt really bad for them.

In most schools, a solid career coach or peer mentor / advisor fixes those false assumptions early in one's grad school career. McCourt underinvests in the former, and doesn't invest in the latter for organization culture reasons, so the numbers don't surprise me. 

[dspp_grad]

@Kaz_KV It's definitely hard to extrapolate from one year of DSPP data, but keep in mind that the first cohort only had about 20 students so the difference between 75% and 85% is literally two students. In my current DSPP graduating cohort about half of students already have jobs lined up, from what I know, and most of the rest are at least in the interview process with several organizations. I have no doubt that in a non-pandemic year, that 75% would probably be at least 90%.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dspp_grad

[GradProsMPP]

22 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

Tufts Fletcher is another school - for very different reasons (and some very unique to Fletcher) that hasn't fully postured itself for the future of Policy/IR careers to be future/COVID proof - granted their administration is trying hard. COVID just hit them where it hurts. I wrote about this at length in the forum previously as well. 

McCourt is hampered by the decisions they consciously made or refuse to make about their program.

If you show me how HKS, Harris, SPIA or Heinz had comparable drops, I would buy your pitch (not saying it is wrong, but I would like more evidence to be convinced given how the MBA numbers are so different). 

Thanks a bunch for your insights! Was curious to know your take on the MSFS-MPP dual degree v/s SIPA MIA? Assuming after scholarships the costs for the two programs are the same. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

18 minutes ago, GradProsMPP said:

Thanks a bunch for your insights! Was curious to know your take on the MSFS-MPP dual degree v/s SIPA MIA? Assuming after scholarships the costs for the two programs are the same. 

So very generally speaking (since I have no idea what your interests are or background for a more targeted answer), I would do an MSFS only over MIA (I can think of lots of exceptions to this answer depending on your situation/interests) without doing the dual degree period.

I have yet to meet a single MSFS/MPP dual degree person to have acquired a tangible career boost from having one degree complimenting the other. The general storyline of why people do it is that they have the money and time to undergo 2 degrees and since they have multiple interests that cross both degrees and they didn't want to close any doors. However, from the career angle, they essentially pick a career track that you would have gotten to with one degree (or neither degree), and not necessitating 2. 

Also, dual degreeing is a lonely life because you are split between 2 social groups (different grad programs don't mix well in Georgetown), so either go it alone or struggle to build a consistent network over 3 years. 

Since there are like 1-3 dual degree with MSFS year, I will tell you the 3 I know from my year

1. Interested in international primary education programming - removed MSFS portion to focus on US education with MPP only

2. Data guy who did a lot of independent study to focus on data analytics

3. National security person who wanted to be published a lot 

All this being said, I would say there dual degrees with MPP (JD, MBA, MD - which Georgetown doesn't have) do have more meaningful career value - depending on your interests.

Edited March 18, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[Kaz_KV]

50 minutes ago, dspp_grad said:

@Kaz_KV It's definitely hard to extrapolate from one year of DSPP data, but keep in mind that the first cohort only had about 20 students so the difference between 75% and 85% is literally two students. In my current DSPP graduating cohort about half of students already have jobs lined up, from what I know, and most of the rest are at least in the interview process with several organizations. I have no doubt that in a non-pandemic year, that 75% would probably be at least 90%.

Great point - thanks for this info! It is definitely a relief to hear your cohort has been doing better.

[N0197]

I heard from a student in a different program that admissions offices were flexible in terms of allowing extensions for acceptances because they were waiting on sorting out funding from other programs. Would you happen to know if that's also true for McCourt?

[GradSchoolGrad]

4 hours ago, N0197 said:

I heard from a student in a different program that admissions offices were flexible in terms of allowing extensions for acceptances because they were waiting on sorting out funding from other programs. Would you happen to know if that's also true for McCourt?

Speaking generally, graduate schools will take in students as long as they have capacity. This is because although it is highly frowned upon, you do have students that pay their deposit and recant right before orientation. Each year every grad program manages their risk uniquely to their circumstances (as in extent of acceptance extension flexibility). So bottom line is that it is possible, but no school in their right mind would talk about in at length.

[GradSchoolGrad]

On 3/18/2021 at 1:33 PM, Kaz_KV said:

Great point - thanks for this info! It is definitely a relief to hear your cohort has been doing better.

One thing I will highlight is that generally speaking the DSPP students tend to be some of the brighter crayons at McCourt compared to MPP. Just look at the backgrounds of the DSPP students on LinkedIn to get a better sense. However there is a lot to be said quality of jobs that they get. I recommend you check to see if that first cohort got into things you would like to go into.

I went to DSPP to recruit data savvy policy people and the answer I got from the students I interacted with was that they rather hold out for the perfect job per their policy interests rather than take what I had to offer (6 figure job opportunities in highly visibile Fed policy areas) + I found a lacking of professional communication. 
 

Maybe COVID made the latest cohort of DSPP wiser because @dspp_gradsounds like a champ.

However, I found that many McCourt students had bizarre perceptions of their career prospects (including DSPP) that resulted in delayed job entry or under leveling.

Edited March 22, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad

[niceswing]

Call up the financial aid office, STAT!

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, niceswing said:

Call up the financial aid office, STAT!

Understand that the donation doesn't = money available now. It is means money in annuieties over the long run. 

[dspp_grad]

3 hours ago, niceswing said:

Call up the financial aid office, STAT!

What @GradSchoolGrad said is mostly true, most of the impact of this is going to be felt in the long run, but McCourt did send out an email to all students this morning announcing they were *immediately* doubling the availability of scholarships reserved for second year students so they likely will have some extra funds available for incoming students. I think realistically, you might be able to use this to negotiate a few extra grand - for instance, if you had other better funding offers and Georgetown would originally give you 5k more in response, now they might be able to give you an extra 7-8k -  but I wouldn't expect anything more than that. In any case, it definitely can't hurt anyone to call and ask!

Edited March 25, 2021 by dspp_grad

[GradSchoolGrad]

11 minutes ago, dspp_grad said:

What @GradSchoolGrad said is mostly true, most of the impact of this is going to be felt in the long run, but McCourt did send out an email to all students this morning announcing they were *immediately* doubling the availability of scholarships reserved for second year students so they likely will have some extra funds available for incoming students. I think realistically, you might be able to use this to negotiate a few extra grand out of them (5k at the absolute most), but not any more than that. In any case, it definitely can't hurt anyone to call and ask!

I agree it definite can't hurt to call.

However, it totally makes sense for 2nd year funding bump since McCourt (as a school) loses students between end of 1st year and graduation (my year I think the count was around 3 or 4). Supposedly the main driver is funding. Ability to graduate is another. I would be surprised if they pitch it to incoming students since McCourt is by comparison already more generous with funding than others schools this year by all indications regarding application bump this year vs. other schools from COVID. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by GradSchoolGrad