2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[oubukibun]

Hiya to you all!

Finally caved in and emailed Rutgers-Camden about admission decisions.  It's been 2 months and we're less than a month from Judgment Day and bupkis.  I'm currently waiting to hear back from Alaska and New Orleans concerning funding, but it'd be nice to at least just know where Rutgers stands.

Little info about Camden MFA here but the results from years past have arrived earlier than this year.  Yes, yes, not a great model of consistency (grad application cycles), but their silence has been...  Interesting.

I'll keep y'all posted!  And cheer, cheer, cheerios to all who have heard back and/or deciding to to retry next year.

 

Ta-ta!

[MDP]

1 hour ago, Sydup said:

Who else just wrote next year's personal statement because me too. 

Personal statements always feel like the most baffling piece of the puzzle for me...I never know what to say. I always end up feeling like a kissass. Props to you for getting going on it already. 

I swear, next time I apply I'm barely even going to bother editing my stuff. Clearly it hasn't served me to agonize over which angle or tack might sit right with the adcoms. They'll get what they get, lol.

[autumn wind]

13 hours ago, abcdpppp said:

I applied to only 4 schools, all of which I was really interested in, and was rejected from IWW, Brown, probably Columbia but I actually haven't heard back (can't afford it anyway...). This was my first time applying. And honestly it was all a little last minute, I got together my IWW and Brown app in like 2 days (not the writing obviously)....

I've been accepted into Brooklyn College's poetry cohort and I'm really excited about this — Ben Lerner and Anselm Berrigan are on the faculty and are some of my favorite writers. They offered me the grant that only one applicant across all all genres gets, and its a CUNY, so I'd walk away with around 15k in total debt. I know this is obviously a personal decision but does this sound reasonable for an MFA? My undergrad debt is currently just over 5k (maybe TMI)

I know it's a great program esp. for more experimental writing, though perhaps not as well known outside of the East Coast. I want to move to New York and honestly have been feeling so aimless recently, so it's a really good time for me to settle back into school. But

Am I so stupid for not trying again at the fully funded places in a year? Will I regret this forever......... PLEASE HELP

i think you should interpret your brooklyn acceptance as evidence that you could put together a really competitive application packet with more time and research—and a greater number of fully funded schools added to the list. i've said this already, but casting such a small net (4 schools is way under the average) doesn't do justice to the possibilities that an mfa might make happen for you, particularly because you only have one chance at committing to and experiencing this degree.

i also speak from personal experience, as i (stupidly) walked away from undergrad with 20k in student loan debt that i now have to think about for the rest of my foreseeable future (possibly even life)—and i live in a city with a much lower cost of living than new york. remember that you have to also think about how much it will cost to upend your life for a city as expensive as new york; many fully funded NYU students struggle not to spread themselves too thin, and they have a stipend to offset most of the hidden fees/costs you should be factoring in. so that 15k could easily become 20 or even 25k over time.

wherever you're moving, you'll need to think about having at least two months' worth of rent money—depending on your budget/roommate situation—at the ready, you'll need to think about paying for groceries/health insurance (if brooklyn doesn't cover it)/dental/transportation/leisure or luxury expenses, as well as any hidden fees built into your mfa (which i recommend asking about; many have to pay $500-$3,000 a semester/academic year for university or program-specific reasons).

in my (personal) opinion, paying any amount of money to attend an mfa program is unreasonable, as the degree doesn't in any way guarantee creative writing success or post-grad teaching opportunities (many will tell you that your real ticket to teaching in an mfa program is publishing a book, preferably many and preferably to at least average success, depending on genre). essentially, an mfa is an investment that guarantees zero return, so unless you come from generational wealth, have a partner/family to support you, are prepared with a large savings cushion, etc., you should exhaust all possible alternatives before considering taking on that amount of debt. 

and you're right that brooklyn won't have much prestige pull outside of the NYC mfa / literary circuit. it's a good school for what it offers, but i do think you should consider another round of applications. does brooklyn offer teaching opportunities? will you be able to (quietly) work on top of writing? what do you hope to get out of an mfa? have you started doing hypothetical budgeting specific to moving to the east coast?

some thoughts on the program from draft: 

— "I mean, it’s not as competitive to get in as the IWW, or probably even Ohio State. Buuuuutttt there is something to be said for easy access to the NYC lit scene for someone whose sole ambition is novel writing. I’d have trouble giving a precise 'ranking,' except to say that I really don’t think it could hurt you, even if it won’t make people stand to attention in the same way that Hunter would in NYC, or IWW/Michigan/Michener/Cornell/Wisconsin/Northwestern/Syracuse/maybe Illinois would in the rest of the US."

— "Brooklyn is a prestigious program but the school is way out in Midwood—beautiful campus—which means it’s more isolated than Hunter and NYU which are both in the middle of Manhattan. Have you been accepted to Brooklyn? If so, I highly recommend a visit if you can, and that may help you make up your mind."

— "I actually went to Brooklyn my first MFA go-around. I liked it. The faculty is great, the cohorts are usually awesome, etc. They do bring in agents to meet with you and you can easily attend literary things as long as you don’t mind taking the subway for an hour. (And if you do, get over it because that’s just the NY way of life lol.) The money is probably the biggest issue the program has. NYC is expensive and paying tuition on top of that…ooof. But if money isn’t a concern for you…Oh, full disclosure, I got a ton of funding from Brooklyn that basically made most of my tuition free. But I still found it hard to survive in Brooklyn because I’m very very poor and disabled. Again, that may not be your experience."

[immyc]

Hi! Does anybody know what's going on with UC Irvine? Have decisions already gone out?

[koechophe]

15 hours ago, abcdpppp said:

Am I so stupid for not trying again at the fully funded places in a year? Will I regret this forever......... PLEASE HELP

Heya, I can't tell you if it's a good idea or not. I also don't think you'd be "stupid" for taking an offer you're excited about. That being said, here's a few things you might want to consider.

I've met a lot of writers on the forum and on Draft who took multiple cycles to make it into the programs they wanted to be in. I actually think making it in on the first round is more of an exception than the rule, tbh, especially if applying was a last minute decision.

If you take time to really workshop your pieces, push your writing out, and grow as both a person and a writer, it is likely that next year, you will end up with better offers than the one you got this year. There's no guarantees here, which sucks, but I can't think of any stories I've heard where someone does worse the second year than they did the first. There are some where the second year isn't any better, but the majority I've seen who post here/draft do better over time.

I've also seen a number of writers who end up "settling" for a program with less than ideal funding. The loans aren't great, especially since life happens, expenses we don't expect rear their ugly heads, and people often end up in more debt than they planned for. I was raised by a single mom (who actually got a "get a job" degree, I might add) and she still hasn't been able to pay off her ~18k in loans after more than 30 years, and that amount is now much, much higher.

But the bigger issue (in my opinion, some people would say the money issue is bigger) is the kind of experiences you might get. When people settle for a program that has less funding, they often end up finding the quality isn't what they'd hoped for. Yes, you might love the teachers, but from what I've heard and experienced, the quality of your cohort tends to matter even more than the quality of your professors. If your cohort isn't up to giving you quality advice, you might end up not growing as much or being as satisfied with your program. 

Most people on here, myself included, would advise trying again when you're more prepared, but for all I know, you'll go into the program, love it, and it will be worth it. 

Either way, here's hoping everything works out for you! 

[RosA-R]

8 hours ago, Sydup said:

Who else just wrote next year's personal statement because me too. 

I finally got up the courage to re-read the ones I submitted... if I do this again I should start writing soon, too.

I feel a lot of what got to me was a fear and lack of understanding of these programs, like how early and selective interviews were. If anyone interviewed, what was that like?? I am a very nervous and awkward person, and got overwhelmed doing applications that I had plenty of time to prepare for, lol. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by RosA-R
clarification

[1moreX]

1 hour ago, RosA-R said:

 If anyone interviewed, what was that like?? I am a very nervous and awkward person, and got overwhelmed doing applications that I had plenty of time to prepare for, lol. 

I had two interviews, one as a finalist at Brooklyn and one as a high waitlister at Florida State, both with program directors. I thought my heart would burst before both of them and had to go out for a run to get myself under control. There were no tricks and they didn't grill me. I had prepared for the interviews by thinking up possible questions they'd ask and writing down answers in case I completely blanked out on something like "Who are your favorite writers?" There was NOTHING like that. It was not like a job interview. They didn't even ask about my goals, but since I'd prepared that, I told them. I also told them why I was interested in their school. I'd advise you to prepare a couple of things about yourself that you want them to know. Not show-offy things, obviously, but true personal stuff related to your aspirations as a writer. If you want to teach, let them know that, too. Also, prepare specific questions to ask about their programs.

Both directors led with a compliment to me about my writing sample. One of them quoted something in my personal statement. Listen, they REALLY know our writing. Then it was a regular conversation that was mostly structured around my questions. At FSU we talked a lot about the assistantships, for example. At Brooklyn, it was about the academics.

Hope this helps. If I can think of more, I'll add.

[abcdpppp]

20 hours ago, abcdpppp said:

Hi new here! Thanks for letting me read and be anxious and happy with you all 

I applied to only 4 schools, all of which I was really interested in, and was rejected from IWW, Brown, probably Columbia but I actually haven't heard back (can't afford it anyway...). This was my first time applying. And honestly it was all a little last minute, I got together my IWW and Brown app in like 2 days (not the writing obviously)....

I've been accepted into Brooklyn College's poetry cohort and I'm really excited about this — Ben Lerner and Anselm Berrigan are on the faculty and are some of my favorite writers. They offered me the grant that only one applicant across all all genres gets, and its a CUNY, so I'd walk away with around 15k in total debt. I know this is obviously a personal decision but does this sound reasonable for an MFA? My undergrad debt is currently just over 5k (maybe TMI)

I know it's a great program esp. for more experimental writing, though perhaps not as well known outside of the East Coast. I want to move to New York and honestly have been feeling so aimless recently, so it's a really good time for me to settle back into school. But

Am I so stupid for not trying again at the fully funded places in a year? Will I regret this forever......... PLEASE HELP

Thank you so much everyone for your comments on this, I realize it was a pretty self-indulgent irrelevant post haha so I so appreciate you taking the time to humor me. 

I just found out I was accepted at COLUMBIA. What the fuck. So now it's even more complicated, not because I want to accept there (that's simply too much debt......), but bc now I am really thinking if I spent more time I'd have a real chance next year to get into the fully funded places.

I know New York is expensive, but Brooklyn offers a lot of work on campus, adjuncting your second semester for good money and editing the Brooklyn Review, which I thought would be especially interesting as it would serve as double-way into the literary world of nyc, as a student/writer and as an employee. In a way that you may not get at like IWW, I want to learn how to work in literature, too. 

In other words I'd making more money and be more connected than if I just showed up in new york, which I was sort of planning on doing anyway, and that would be worth the bit of debt to me. Also honestly I'm ready to hustle a little, I've been cruising for the last years...

But now I have no fucking idea what to do, and so little time to decide. Going to call my undergrad advisors and see what they have to say. Thanks again everyone ❤️ 

Best of luck in all your writing and studying and decision-making endeavors!

[Sydup]

11 hours ago, RosA-R said:

I finally got up the courage to re-read the ones I submitted... if I do this again I should start writing soon, too.

I feel a lot of what got to me was a fear and lack of understanding of these programs, like how early and selective interviews were. If anyone interviewed, what was that like?? I am a very nervous and awkward person, and got overwhelmed doing applications that I had plenty of time to prepare for, lol. 

I had one of my past professors help me this year, but I honestly, I am unsure if it helped at all. I reread mine, and I feel like although I worked on them for months and wrote a unique essay for each school, it was lacking. I had a moment of inspiration and said "You know what, f it" and just wrote it yesterday. I focused this time on something that doesn't read like a resume of past experience, goals, and specific interests in the program, but a life story that pulls from who I really am as a person and a writer. 

But the truth is — I have no idea what they are looking for. 

[chuey]

Just got waitlisted at UFlorida! I was very close to accepting my offer to UMass Amherst, but will now wait until closer to 4/15. What are peoples thoughts on both programs? I feel like in terms of reputation in the lit world they're similar enough? Everyone at UMass has been very friendly, but they're asking for $6K in fees which seems unfeasible to me entering my first year. I remain... dumbfounded at that surprise price tag.

Anyway, appreciate any thoughts on both programs. I don't know if there will be any movement with Florida since they only have two spots to begin with, but still, making my mental calculations now rather than later.  

[Sydup]

Does anyone know anything about Oklahoma State University Creative Writing MFA? I was offered full funding there last night, but I am unsure if it is the right path for me. I would love the insight of anyone who has experience or information on the program. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sydup

[Sydup]

I also am waitlisted for Virginia Tech and have realized this program seems more in tune for me, at least what I know of it. If I don't get off the waitlist,  I am wondering if I should reapply next year? Does anyone know what VT is looking like? Anyone know if any of the fiction writers accepted their positions? 

[panglosian]

PLEASE please please if anyone here is accepted to VCU in poetry, please let me know if you're gonna turn down your spot I'm sweating here ❤️

[nicolette7766]

1 hour ago, Sydup said:

I also am waitlisted for Virginia Tech and have realized this program seems more in tune for me, at least what I know of it. If I don't get off the waitlist,  I am wondering if I should reapply next year? Does anyone know what VT is looking like? Anyone know if any of the fiction writers accepted their positions? 

I’m not sure what the accepted applicants for fiction are doing but I do know someone on draft removed herself from the waitlist about a week ago. Hopefully this helps you!

[MDP]

1 hour ago, Sydup said:

I had one of my past professors help me this year, but I honestly, I am unsure if it helped at all. I reread mine, and I feel like although I worked on them for months and wrote a unique essay for each school, it was lacking. I had a moment of inspiration and said "You know what, f it" and just wrote it yesterday. I focused this time on something that doesn't read like a resume of past experience, goals, and specific interests in the program, but a life story that pulls from who I really am as a person and a writer. 

But the truth is — I have no idea what they are looking for. 

This is an awesome approach  Hopefully I'll be able to rally like you have!

[retrotyping]

1 hour ago, Sydup said:

Does anyone know anything about Oklahoma State University Creative Writing MFA? I was offered full funding there last night, but I am unsure if it is the right path for me. I would love the insight of anyone who has experience or information on the program. 

I’ve heard really good things about the program. I was especially interested in how many classes you could take in other depts (American Indian studies, env studies etc.) it’s definitely an established program and seems like it has good resources in terms of visiting writers, events, opportunities for MFA students etc. I talked to some current students who all had good things to say, but I ultimately turned down my spot there because I decided it was too far from home. I think I would’ve been happy there though! I’d recommend getting in touch with students if you can! 

[spencerlr]

14 hours ago, abcdpppp said:

Thank you so much everyone for your comments on this, I realize it was a pretty self-indulgent irrelevant post haha so I so appreciate you taking the time to humor me. 

I just found out I was accepted at COLUMBIA. What the fuck. So now it's even more complicated, not because I want to accept there (that's simply too much debt......), but bc now I am really thinking if I spent more time I'd have a real chance next year to get into the fully funded places.

I know New York is expensive, but Brooklyn offers a lot of work on campus, adjuncting your second semester for good money and editing the Brooklyn Review, which I thought would be especially interesting as it would serve as double-way into the literary world of nyc, as a student/writer and as an employee. In a way that you may not get at like IWW, I want to learn how to work in literature, too. 

In other words I'd making more money and be more connected than if I just showed up in new york, which I was sort of planning on doing anyway, and that would be worth the bit of debt to me. Also honestly I'm ready to hustle a little, I've been cruising for the last years...

But now I have no fucking idea what to do, and so little time to decide. Going to call my undergrad advisors and see what they have to say. Thanks again everyone ❤️ 

Best of luck in all your writing and studying and decision-making endeavors!

Congrats on getting into Columbia either way--but still, what were we all smoking when we applied there? Lol it seems like everyone on here (including me) applied to Columbia even though its reputation is common knowledge. Hope you get this all figured out.

Edited March 23, 2022 by spencerlr

[Sydup]

2 hours ago, retrotyping said:

I’ve heard really good things about the program. I was especially interested in how many classes you could take in other depts (American Indian studies, env studies etc.) it’s definitely an established program and seems like it has good resources in terms of visiting writers, events, opportunities for MFA students etc. I talked to some current students who all had good things to say, but I ultimately turned down my spot there because I decided it was too far from home. I think I would’ve been happy there though! I’d recommend getting in touch with students if you can! 

I am worried that it's too close to home for me. Hmmm, it's just not settling right for me as of now. I will have to do more poking. 

2 hours ago, nicolette7766 said:

I’m not sure what the accepted applicants for fiction are doing but I do know someone on draft removed herself from the waitlist about a week ago. Hopefully this helps you!

Thank you for this info! I hope the final decisions come out quickly about the waitlist applicants. I feel like my life will be on pause until April 15. 

[evergreen13]

4 minutes ago, spencerlr said:

Congrats on getting into Columbia either way--but still, what were we all smoking when we applied there? Lol it seems like everyone on here (including me) applied to Columbia even though its reputation is common knowledge. Hope you get this all figured out.

lol agreed. i applied thinking maybe their funding packages couldn't be that bad...but they're terrible. i got a "good" offer of roughly half tuition which would still require at least $75K in loans.

columbia is making $10-16 million every two years off of a cohort. that should be criminal. 

*this assumes a class size of 110, $150K in total tuition & fees, and that, at best, 25% of total cohort costs are funded. 
https://www.pw.org/content/columbia_university_school_arts

[gagne]

Lols, everyone mentioning hearing from Columbia and I haven’t heard a peep. I was recommended by a professor to apply to Columbia and put a lot of faith in her, which is why I applied there. Likely would not apply again if don’t get in and get miraculous funding as the program was more a shot in the dark for me.

[koechophe]

1 hour ago, evergreen13 said:

lol agreed. i applied thinking maybe their funding packages couldn't be that bad...but they're terrible. i got a "good" offer of roughly half tuition which would still require at least $75K in loans.

columbia is making $10-16 million every two years off of a cohort. that should be criminal. 

Yikes. I could get 0 funding from some of the programs I applied to and walk away with much, much less in loans regardless. It's not even like they're somewhere cheap to live, NYC is dang expensive. 

I hope that people who applied accept the validation and good feelings that come from getting an acceptance... without actually accepting the offer. 

I hope everyone here knows, you deserve to be treated better than a program who makes you get thousands of dollars in debt to hone your craft. 

[autumn wind]

1 minute ago, koechophe said:

Yikes. I could get 0 funding from some of the programs I applied to and walk away with much, much less in loans regardless. It's not even like they're somewhere cheap to live, NYC is dang expensive. 

I hope that people who applied accept the validation and good feelings that come from getting an acceptance... without actually accepting the offer. 

I hope everyone here knows, you deserve to be treated better than a program who makes you get thousands of dollars in debt to hone your craft. 

this, this, this. also, as many before me have said, the columbia mfa does not have a great reputation among the literary world. this was discussed briefly on draft, but there are those non-writers who will hear an ivy league name uttered and automatically assign prestige/status to your acceptance or even graduation there, and then there are publishers, editors, and writers who will hear columbia and think about what a scam its mfa program is. of course, no program will "bar" you from publishing, per se, but if you're looking to go to a school that will elicit an immediate positive reaction when placed in a bio or cv, columbia is the last place you'd want to go.

still, important to remember (from draft): "Whatever you do next, now you can always say that YOU rejected Columbia! ? Their offer is worthy of celebration even if it is bittersweet."

[stella16]

Sorry if this is uncouth, but I'm new to the process. Which is more "prestigious" or would look better in the literary community: Cornell or Syracuse?

[koechophe]

1 minute ago, stella16 said:

Sorry if this is uncouth, but I'm new to the process. Which is more "prestigious" or would look better in the literary community: Cornell or Syracuse?

That's kind of a tricky question, since for a LOT of things you'd do with an MFA, "prestige" isn't that important.

If you're looking to be a teacher of some sort, prestige sort of matters, but only in the question of "did you do your MFA somewhere funded with teaching experience?" Any fully funded one will likely do about the same, some a hair more than others, but there's not that much difference, if any. To be frank, the more "prestigious" programs are often not any harder to get into than the little ones that only accept 3-5 writers a year. Since (to my knowledge) both are fully funded, you're going to be checking the "prestige" box with either just fine for teaching. 

If you're looking to get things published, prestige matters even less. The fact that you have an MFA doesn't even matter that much there tbh, the MFA is just there to make you a better writer and the theory is better writing (as well as contacts, those definitely don't hurt) will help you get published.

If you're looking to do something else with your MFA... I'm not sure what else you'd do with one tbh.  Maybe some sort of professional gig? In that case, prestige "might" matter, but I doubt there'd be a difference between the two you listed. 

I think in most cases, prestige is one of the least important factors when picking a school. It's better to research costs/funding, teaching loads, how much you like the area, how the faculty are, how big/small the incoming cohort is, how well you jive with the current cohort, and any other factor that determines how good of an experience it will be. 

[stella16]

12 hours ago, koechophe said:

That's kind of a tricky question, since for a LOT of things you'd do with an MFA, "prestige" isn't that important.

 

I totally get what you mean! I should note I haven't actually applied to the MFA yet, I'm just beginning to look into the process. I think it might take me a minute to get out of that mindset of "the name matters" from other grad/undergrad endeavors. This was really helpful info. Thanks!