Wake Forest Funded MA or UChicago MAPSS?

[SheilaCoo]

Hi!

I am an international student holding a non-US undergraduate degree in psychology (a first-rank research school in Europe but maybe placements overseas and developments/pubs in Ph.D processes are not comparable to the states).

 

I applied to some MA programs and just got a funded offer from Wake Forest for two years (75% tuition waiver so about 10,000 dollars tuition per year, potential full waiver & assistantship stipend in future).

I also have a offer from UChicago MAPSS, but with merely 1/3 tuition waiver and may result in 50,000 dollars debt...

 

I'm generally interested in ( clinical) developmental psychology though I have some background in quant psych.

I do know a lot of alumni from MAPSS but I'm really not sure about Wake Forest's reputation.

 

I'm kind of detached from MAPSS as they seemingly do not care their MA students and indeed it implies more stress in money and time. Their placements are good though.

 

 

In this case, can anyone give me some suggestions? Especially in PhD placements & pubs.

Many thanks!!!

 

 

 

[SheilaCoo]

I'm not sure if I should try more American schools in the next cycle, like Columbia or Cornell or UIUC as they all have fine developmental programs. Not sure about their funding either.

I was just not that sure about my research interest when I applied...?

[PsyDuck90]

Between those 2, go with Wake Forest hands down. They have a good track record of getting students into fully funded PhDs. The main thing I've ever heard about MAPSS is that it's a big cash cow that brings tons of money to the department. A psychology MA is not worth the cost of that tuition. 

[SheilaCoo]

Thank you!  I agree.  But Wake Forest does not post its placements online.  Of course, I can just ask them, but how do you know their past records (and know that they are better than MAPSS)?  Thanks!

Also, does the reputation of the MA school matter when applying to a tenure?  I would assume Wake Forest is not influential outside the states, so only the resulting doctoral program matters.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by SheilaCoo

[transfatfree]

Congrats on the offers!

What research experience do you have? Either clinical or developmental psych will require some research experience (better in the form of conference presentations or pubs) so it very much depends on where you are at and whether you need the extra year to beef up your profile. It is unlikely to generate any pubs within one year (especially if you plan on applying for PhD programs only a few months into the MAPSS program). 

As you mentioned, this MA is just a means to an end (PhD programs) so it doesn't matter as much in the future except for PhD admissions. Both are good schools for that purpose. As you don't have clear research interests right now, you can check if there are potential professors who you're interested in working with. Participating in their research will help shape your research interests when you write your statement of purpose in the future. 

I would also recommend that you write to MAPSS using your Wake Forest offer as leverage and see if you can get more tuition remission. They have done this in the past.  

[PsyDuck90]

Your doctoral program will matter more. As far as placements, you can search the forums here with many positive reviews of Wake Forest. And yes, they should have outcome data if you ask for it. As far as if their placements are better than MAPSS, no idea. But in the end, a program that is paying you is far more invested in your success than a program that you are paying a boatload of money for. I can't speak to influence outside of the U.S., as I've only ever lived in the U.S. 

[prospie1234]

MAPSS placement is actually really great, so if you can negotiate for more money, I’d go there. MAPSS is also multidisciplinary so you actually have more options after graduation than just doctorate study if that ever interested you. And you can pursue any research you want since it’s up to you on who you really want for your advisor.

[SheilaCoo]

4 hours ago, transfatfree said:

Congrats on the offers!

What research experience do you have? Either clinical or developmental psych will require some research experience (better in the form of conference presentations or pubs) so it very much depends on where you are at and whether you need the extra year to beef up your profile. It is unlikely to generate any pubs within one year (especially if you plan on applying for PhD programs only a few months into the MAPSS program). 

As you mentioned, this MA is just a means to an end (PhD programs) so it doesn't matter as much in the future except for PhD admissions. Both are good schools for that purpose. As you don't have clear research interests right now, you can check if there are potential professors who you're interested in working with. Participating in their research will help shape your research interests when you write your statement of purpose in the future. 

I would also recommend that you write to MAPSS using your Wake Forest offer as leverage and see if you can get more tuition remission. They have done this in the past.  

Yes I had some experience in developmental psych. Starting from looking at POI is a good point! 

And sorry didn't mention this before, but indeed I contacted MAPSS and hoped to negotiate, but they only increased the scholarship with a minor increment (still around 1/3 tuition). It seems to me that they have a large pool of candidates (as seen from the first-round webinar for psych concentration, the ratio of enrolled students to admitted candidates can be 40~ to 70+, but again this is just my impression, not precise estimation) and won't give equal attention to everyone. Their staff appear approachable in webinars but usually you can only see some copy-paste general descriptions in their email replies.

Edited April 21, 2021 by SheilaCoo

[SheilaCoo]

3 hours ago, PsyDuck90 said:

Your doctoral program will matter more. As far as placements, you can search the forums here with many positive reviews of Wake Forest. And yes, they should have outcome data if you ask for it. As far as if their placements are better than MAPSS, no idea. But in the end, a program that is paying you is far more invested in your success than a program that you are paying a boatload of money for. I can't speak to influence outside of the U.S., as I've only ever lived in the U.S. 

Exactly, thanks!

[SheilaCoo]

2 hours ago, prospie1234 said:

MAPSS placement is actually really great, so if you can negotiate for more money, I’d go there. MAPSS is also multidisciplinary so you actually have more options after graduation than just doctorate study if that ever interested you. And you can pursue any research you want since it’s up to you on who you really want for your advisor.

Yes that's something I would remind international students who may have more funding to check. MAPSS-Psych is a STEM program now and it may be helpful to someone who needs OPT to find predoctoral jobs in the states.

But as regards placements in the industry (except predoctoral RAs),  I do notice that some MAPSS-Psych graduates work as data scientists (so-called, as I would say MAPSS is not comparable to traditional CS programs) or UX researchers. Just to note something I know from their alumni. 

As for Wake Forest, I have to search for more info.

Edited April 21, 2021 by SheilaCoo

[SheilaCoo]

Also, for possible on-capus jobs/assistantships at UChicago, usually psych students have to do unpaid jobs in the psych labs you're interested in to do your thesis or build connections, during the master's study. If you do the paid jobs, it is likely they are not the labs that will help you out in your PhD application. It is a trade-off. So I would say if you enter the program from a less privileged background and with less funding, it will stress you out either in your study or your life.

[merry go round]

Hey Sheila! First of all, congrats on your offer!! 

As an international student myself (with a non-US undergraduate degree in psychology) and a recent graduate from Wake’s psychology MA program, I’m happy to provide some personal experiences to help you make a more informed decision. 

#1 Funding

I was initially offered partial tuition waiver as well, and starting from the second semester, my package was upgraded to full tuition waiver + assistantship. The department is consistently helping students to look for on-campus employment opportunities that are aligned with our interests. There’s no guarantee, but I have good reasons to believe that they will try their best to help with your funding situation as they did for me. 

#2 Department environment

Comparing to some other psych master’s program in the US, Wake’s program is relatively small (~10+ students each cohort), which means great personal attention. The professors in the department are generally super engaging, encouraging, and helpful. During the first week of the first semester, we had the chance to talk to any professors in the department, and decide who we wanted to work with. The program is very research-oriented so the research starts right away. We do a first-year project & an in-department presentation, then the master’s thesis. The research experiences will definitely help with the phd application.

#3 Placement

I would suggest reaching out to the director to ask for more information! I did before I decided my offer, and they gave me a list of recent placements. Wake’s program has a great reputation in the field, especially in the US (as I was told by the professors at other schools during my phd interviews). Speaking from my personal experience, I got into a European phd program and another in Canada. I know some of my peers got into schools like UVA, UNC, NYU, UToronto, and etc. At the end of the day, it really depends on each person’s background, how many professors in the area are doing the topics you are interested in (and are also accepting students that year), and whether fundings are reduced because of a global pandemic, lol. But I think the trainings I got from the program benefited me greatly, not only for phd applications, but also for getting ready for my future research.

If you would like more information about the program or certain professors in the department, feel free to dm me and I’m happy to talk more! Good luck with your decisions, and I’m sure you’ll make the best choice for yourself!

[SheilaCoo]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:28 PM, merry go round said:

Hey Sheila! First of all, congrats on your offer!! 

As an international student myself (with a non-US undergraduate degree in psychology) and a recent graduate from Wake’s psychology MA program, I’m happy to provide some personal experiences to help you make a more informed decision. 

#1 Funding

I was initially offered partial tuition waiver as well, and starting from the second semester, my package was upgraded to full tuition waiver + assistantship. The department is consistently helping students to look for on-campus employment opportunities that are aligned with our interests. There’s no guarantee, but I have good reasons to believe that they will try their best to help with your funding situation as they did for me. 

#2 Department environment

Comparing to some other psych master’s program in the US, Wake’s program is relatively small (~10+ students each cohort), which means great personal attention. The professors in the department are generally super engaging, encouraging, and helpful. During the first week of the first semester, we had the chance to talk to any professors in the department, and decide who we wanted to work with. The program is very research-oriented so the research starts right away. We do a first-year project & an in-department presentation, then the master’s thesis. The research experiences will definitely help with the phd application.

#3 Placement

I would suggest reaching out to the director to ask for more information! I did before I decided my offer, and they gave me a list of recent placements. Wake’s program has a great reputation in the field, especially in the US (as I was told by the professors at other schools during my phd interviews). Speaking from my personal experience, I got into a European phd program and another in Canada. I know some of my peers got into schools like UVA, UNC, NYU, UToronto, and etc. At the end of the day, it really depends on each person’s background, how many professors in the area are doing the topics you are interested in (and are also accepting students that year), and whether fundings are reduced because of a global pandemic, lol. But I think the trainings I got from the program benefited me greatly, not only for phd applications, but also for getting ready for my future research.

If you would like more information about the program or certain professors in the department, feel free to dm me and I’m happy to talk more! Good luck with your decisions, and I’m sure you’ll make the best choice for yourself!

Hey merry!

Thank you very much for your detailed reply! Yes, I contacted the program director soon after I wrote this post. Everything was nice, exactly like you said! The program director and current students (like you) were super approachable and helpful, full of enthusiasm. Their sincerity and sense of belonging impressed me. Indeed, placements were absolutely amazing (although for UToronto, there might be some tricks regarding the campuses, for some reasons).

I ended up turning down the offer simply because I just realized the professors there in my subdiscipline had very different research interests from me. I tried to read more of their publications to interest myself but unfortunately, it just didn't work.

I would recommend this program to students who might be interested more in cultural/social development.

In a word, a take-home message for prospective students: it is always nice to do more research before your application!

Edited April 26, 2021 by SheilaCoo

[IWannaBeAPhD]

Hi there! I am a recent MAPSS Psychology graduate (within the last four years) and will be starting at top PhD program in a psychology adjacent field this fall. Overall, i had a great experience at MAPSS but I knew people both within psychology and in other tracks who had less pleasant experiences. One thing to keep in mind that they may not tell you as an applicant is that they strongly discourage you from apply for a PhD during your MAPSS year. This is mostly because when apps are due in the fall, you will not have benefitted from MAPSS yet or have relationships for strong letters of recommendation. I do think that MAPSS prepared me well to do research and apply for a PhD and I did not feel like I had to fight for attention or that I was in a "cash cow" program. I do think that my preceptor was particularly fantastic and that that relationship can make or break the MAPSS experience. Happy to answer any questions you might have.

[Par88]

On 4/21/2021 at 5:32 AM, SheilaCoo said:

Hi!

I am an international student holding a non-US undergraduate degree in psychology (a first-rank research school in Europe but maybe placements overseas and developments/pubs in Ph.D processes are not comparable to the states).

 

I applied to some MA programs and just got a funded offer from Wake Forest for two years (75% tuition waiver so about 10,000 dollars tuition per year, potential full waiver & assistantship stipend in future).

I also have a offer from UChicago MAPSS, but with merely 1/3 tuition waiver and may result in 50,000 dollars debt...

 

I'm generally interested in ( clinical) developmental psychology though I have some background in quant psych.

I do know a lot of alumni from MAPSS but I'm really not sure about Wake Forest's reputation.

 

I'm kind of detached from MAPSS as they seemingly do not care their MA students and indeed it implies more stress in money and time. Their placements are good though.

 

 

In this case, can anyone give me some suggestions? Especially in PhD placements & pubs.

Many thanks!!!

 

 

 

Hello could you provide any info of your stats that gained you the wake forest admission ?

Many thanks

[SheilaCoo]

7 hours ago, Par88 said:

Hello could you provide any info of your stats that gained you the wake forest admission ?

Many thanks

In my case, I think I got off the Wake Forest waitlist mostly because I had the competing offer from UChi and then I emailed them to have a try. I didn't submit GRE scores. I had some research experience and comprehensive curriculum including good stat grades and some coding/data analysis but my undergrad GPA looked just fine (3.6~3.7/4.0 or so but definitely not higher) and I didn't have any US references who could write me strong letters. I maybe submitted a "standard-wise" research report as a writing sample which was neither that bad nor that impressive, and I wrote my personal statement using some alumni's / online advice.

I think "provincial schools" are generally more prudent when reviewing international/non-local applicants. These schools, regardless in US or Europe, typically have their "target schools" which are not big names but have a lot of collaborations or at least have sent some previous students to each other. 

In my case, UChi was more informed in reviewing international applicants as they have a greater variablity and a larger cohort size. They can have a wider range to admit all kinds of students. Then the UChi offer served as a stepping stone for me to have Wake Forest reviewers know my potential cuz of course they knew UChi (unfortunately not the other way around). I think current students and alumni are also very important especially for international students. If you know anyone who was in that program who had similar background as you (schools, countries, etc.), definitely get connected. They'll serve as not only your resources, but also the applicaton reviewers' - these previous students can let the program give you more attention, especially for a "compact" program like Wake Forest.

If you are looking for research master programs, I'd recommend you to check Europe, both UK & the continent. They really have some outstanding & affordable English-taught programs providing excellent cohorts, careful training, and close contact with professors. Many of these programs need two years to complete. In European academia, getting a research master is the *norm*. Don't only focus on North America as grad schools here are basically reprented by PhD programs - MA students are the secondary.  Of course Wake Forest is an exception as they don't have PhD programs so they need MA students to serve as TAs and RAs and as the cohort size is small they can give MA students good training.