(Canada 2022) MPP/MPA Applications

[LawAndMordor]

3 hours ago, Ey1357 said:

Can anyone provide any pros and cons of Ryerson's MPPA and Uvic's MPA? I have done a lot of research and am leaning towards Ryerson, however I am from Vancouver Island so a move to Uvic would be much more convenient than a move to Toronto! However, moving to Toronto is quite appealing. Any advice is very welcome! 

 

 

 

 

I am far from an expert, but I have a really close friend who in finishing up her first year/co-op term at UVic's on campus MPA. She was the main source of inspiration for applying there as I heard really good things about the program. I can relay a few notes I learned from her as I was evaluating my decisions. Hope it can be useful for you and others considering UVic:

The co-op program seems very good. Sounds like they take a great interest in helping students throughout the process and ensuring they are successful in getting a placement/being successful in it. Probably not on the level of Waterloo, but from her testimony, it sounded good. My friend actually works for the Feds atm, so it's not mutually exclusive to the BC Government (though there is loads of co-ops provincially if that's the preference).

She said the instructors there were overall very accommodating and good. Sounded like they wanted students to succeed. According to her, it was hard not to get a poor grade (in grad school terms) as long as you put in the effort and have good work to show for it. Obviously, like all grad schools it's challenging, but it didn't sound like it was unreasonable/awful. Sounds like there is a good portion of group projects, alongside a few individual assignments, but I think most MPA/MPP/MPS programs are like that. 

The cohort seems quite small. I know it's about 25 at most (I think my friend's is around 20), so you will get to know your classmates really well. 

You already know this, but a downside is the cost of living, especially if you're from out of province/not from the island. My friend said the tuition didn't seem unreasonable, but I'm not sure exactly what she had to pay. She also got 5k in funding. 

The main factor that drew my decision between Waterloo and Carleton was the Thesis aspect. Maybe to some it sounds like a highlight, but I would've rather done the big group capstones, as offered in the other programs. That's just me, so definitely don't need to take that at face value! 

As for X University, I don't have any idea, as I didn't apply/don't know anyone there. Hopefully these notes can provide some clarity? These were the main highlights I worked off of when considering my decision. If you'd like, I can probably find a way to connect you to my friend and get a better understanding of UVic's program compared to what I wrote. If you're interested, just send me a DM and I can connect you to her GradCafe account.

[BTF]

13 hours ago, Joseph_Eze said:

You can't work for the Federal Government legally. The Feds only hire Canadians, and that's a strict rule. Carleton is in Ottawa, and it's mainly a feeder to Federal Government jobs. You can definitely try, and you might end up in the Provincial side or Municipal side. Depends on what you want. 

Ryerson MPPA allows you access to Toronto, and by extension, quite a reach to OPS based nearby. Though the program is relatively new as I've heard, and the connections might not be as strong. Your mileage may vary here. 

Between both options, I'd say you're kinda stuck in the middle hoping for the best afterwards. But if my money's on the table, I'd pick Carleton any day. It's just a matter of putting more effort and standing out, networking, and building on Carleton's policy/political reputation.

@yclamerThis is partially true. You can definitely work for the Federal Government as an international student (assuming your visa is all good) but it will be an uphill battle. The Federal Government includes the below text on every publicly posted job I can find:

"Preference will be given to veterans first and then to Canadian citizens and permanent residents, with the exception of a job located in Nunavut, where Nunavut Inuit will be appointed first. Information on the preference to veterans"

These preferences mean anyone not in this preference list will be picked last for a job. Eligibility is more stringent for national security/defense related jobs. These positions ONLY take Canadian Citizens for publicly posted jobs.

The way "IN" to the Federal Government as someone not on that preference list is by getting in as a student, either through the Federal Student Work Experience Program (FSWEP) or through a university co-op/placement program, like the one offered by Carleton's MPPA program, among others. Both student routes are temporary jobs, typically lasting 4 months each, the duration of a semester, FSWEP being more difficult to get in than co-op/placement. The idea is that you get an FSWEP or co-op/placement job (if your chosen program has one) and do good work throughout that position to get "bridged" in. Bridging is the transfer from student to non-student employment within the Federal Government and is not publicly posted, circumventing the above preference list on publicly posted jobs.

I agree with @Joseph_Eze, Carleton's MPM is likely your best bet for a Federal Government job given their program's placement requirement. Ryerson would be better for an Ontario Public Sector job.

TL;DR: You need to pick a program that offers a co-op/placement with the Federal Government, otherwise your chances of getting a Federal Government job are minimal.

[Ey1357]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:43 PM, LawAndMordor said:

I am far from an expert, but I have a really close friend who in finishing up her first year/co-op term at UVic's on campus MPA. She was the main source of inspiration for applying there as I heard really good things about the program. I can relay a few notes I learned from her as I was evaluating my decisions. Hope it can be useful for you and others considering UVic:

The co-op program seems very good. Sounds like they take a great interest in helping students throughout the process and ensuring they are successful in getting a placement/being successful in it. Probably not on the level of Waterloo, but from her testimony, it sounded good. My friend actually works for the Feds atm, so it's not mutually exclusive to the BC Government (though there is loads of co-ops provincially if that's the preference).

She said the instructors there were overall very accommodating and good. Sounded like they wanted students to succeed. According to her, it was hard not to get a poor grade (in grad school terms) as long as you put in the effort and have good work to show for it. Obviously, like all grad schools it's challenging, but it didn't sound like it was unreasonable/awful. Sounds like there is a good portion of group projects, alongside a few individual assignments, but I think most MPA/MPP/MPS programs are like that. 

The cohort seems quite small. I know it's about 25 at most (I think my friend's is around 20), so you will get to know your classmates really well. 

You already know this, but a downside is the cost of living, especially if you're from out of province/not from the island. My friend said the tuition didn't seem unreasonable, but I'm not sure exactly what she had to pay. She also got 5k in funding. 

The main factor that drew my decision between Waterloo and Carleton was the Thesis aspect. Maybe to some it sounds like a highlight, but I would've rather done the big group capstones, as offered in the other programs. That's just me, so definitely don't need to take that at face value! 

As for X University, I don't have any idea, as I didn't apply/don't know anyone there. Hopefully these notes can provide some clarity? These were the main highlights I worked off of when considering my decision. If you'd like, I can probably find a way to connect you to my friend and get a better understanding of UVic's program compared to what I wrote. If you're interested, just send me a DM and I can connect you to her GradCafe account.

Thank you so much for taking the time to outline that for me, it is really great to have some information from inside of the program. I think Uvic would be the best choice for me, I don't think I want to work with the federal government as much as the provincial, which is why I turned down my Carleton offer. I also am from the Island, so moving to Victoria would be a lot easier for me than moving across the country to Toronto.

I personally liked the idea of the thesis aspect which is another reason why I applied to X and Uvic, but I personally love the idea of independent research. The small class sizes at Uvic are also a pro, as you mentioned!

Thank you again for all of the info, I still haven't heard back from Uvic and I sent the admissions team an email this morning. 

Congrats on Carleton, I really hope that goes well for you!

[LawAndMordor]

50 minutes ago, Ey1357 said:

Thank you so much for taking the time to outline that for me, it is really great to have some information from inside of the program. I think Uvic would be the best choice for me, I don't think I want to work with the federal government as much as the provincial, which is why I turned down my Carleton offer. I also am from the Island, so moving to Victoria would be a lot easier for me than moving across the country to Toronto.

I personally liked the idea of the thesis aspect which is another reason why I applied to X and Uvic, but I personally love the idea of independent research. The small class sizes at Uvic are also a pro, as you mentioned!

Thank you again for all of the info, I still haven't heard back from Uvic and I sent the admissions team an email this morning. 

Congrats on Carleton, I really hope that goes well for you!

My pleasure, I'm glad you found it useful. I truly hope it all works out and you get that opportunity you deserve.

Apologies for a misleading typo: I meant to say it was "not hard to get a good grade", NOT "it was hard not to get a poor grade." Don't want to mislead anyone.

[TheZarosian]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:08 AM, Tundra said:

I got excited for a moment and thought TheZarosian posted something on this thread

Haha, I am back now if anyone has any questions. The post I made there remains largely unchanged.

[neonisblue]

Accepted into Carleton, UVic, SFU, and UBC so far... still waiting to hear back from my first choice Calgary ? Getting a bit worried as we're heading into April.

FYI for those of you who are still waiting to hear back from Carleton: Carleton emailed me yesterday reminding me about the offer and saying that they have now exceeded their recruitment target.

[Joseph_Eze]

Anyone heard from SFU yet? Emailed the program admin and she mentioned that the offers are still being sent out until the end of April. :\

[ThisisB]

Emailed SFU on Friday and they responded back around 11 on Monday to offer me admission!! They said they would follow up with official offer letter this week.

[BigCow]

Accepted into SFU as well Congrats everyone!

[Ey1357]

For anyone still waiting on a Uvic decision, I emailed them earlier this week and they got back to me today. I was told that they are making their final decisions and sending them out sometime next week. 

However, I decided to accept my offer of admission to X university due to the opportunity and the deadline to accept  

[kml108]

Accepted my offer to McMaster's MPP! Looking forward to being part of the program's 2nd cohort and hopefully putting this program on the map for years to come. 

[bluesdude]

Has anyone received admission to McGill yet? My application still says in review. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by bluesdude

[Futurewitch]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:52 PM, Nicole13 said:

Congrats! I literally just emailed them asking about my status and then I got an email an hour later with my official letter of admission ? (for sfu mpp In case others are wondering and can't see the thread)

Congratulations! I'm still waiting for my official acceptance but I've been ensured by the dep. manager I got in, so I'll see you there!

[Joseph_Eze]

9 hours ago, BigCow said:

Accepted into SFU as well Congrats everyone!

congrats man! Praying for mine now... 

[Making other plans]

My MPA offer didn't mention funding either. Anyone happen to know of any Facebook pages specific to grad student housing?

On 3/22/2022 at 12:15 PM, cuddles492 said:

I got into queens today.. but im not sure if I got funding

 

[Joseph_Eze]

4 hours ago, Making other plans said:

My MPA offer didn't mention funding either. Anyone happen to know of any Facebook pages specific to grad student housing?

 

Nope - usually MPA students form a FB group and some of them just live together thereafter. The only FB group for Queen's housing is the one which is shared between all students.

[Nicole13]

On 3/31/2022 at 4:37 PM, Futurewitch said:

Congratulations! I'm still waiting for my official acceptance but I've been ensured by the dep. manager I got in, so I'll see you there!

Congrats! Looking forward to meet you eventually!

[RadahnFestival]

Any offers yet from Ryerson, UofT, Queens, and/or Waterloo? My gpa is on the lower side so I'm worried, and I already got a rejection letter from carelton a few weeks back. Haven't gotten any responses yet from these universities, so I'm unsure how much longer I should wait or expect anything.

[FiggiGrad]

30 minutes ago, RadahnFestival said:

Any offers yet from Ryerson, UofT, Queens, and/or Waterloo? My gpa is on the lower side so I'm worried, and I already got a rejection letter from carelton a few weeks back. Haven't gotten any responses yet from these universities, so I'm unsure how much longer I should wait or expect anything.

I have seen people posting about first round offers from Ryerson, UofT, Queens, and Waterloo. Don't count yourself out yet because second rounds are still on the way. Good luck! 

[RadahnFestival]

16 hours ago, FiggiGrad said:

I have seen people posting about first round offers from Ryerson, UofT, Queens, and Waterloo. Don't count yourself out yet because second rounds are still on the way. Good luck! 

Thank you! I'm assuming the second rounds for those unis is between april-may?

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by RadahnFestival

[bgormo]

4 hours ago, RadahnFestival said:

Thank you! I'm assuming the second rounds for those unis is between april-may?

 

 

My accept/decline deadline for Queens is mid-June. So for Queens it may be mid June for a second round. Not sure about the other schools though. I'm also wondering about UofT. 

[TheZarosian]

Hello All,

Time for my yearly post!

I am a policy analyst that works full-time in an indeterminate (permanent) position for the Federal Government. I started working full-time in Spring 2019 and started my MPPA at Carleton part-time in Fall 2019 concurrently, which I finished in Spring 2021. Overall, I have about 4.5 years experience in government, 1.5 of which was from co-op, and another 3 from full-time work.

I graduated from my BA in Political Science in Spring 2019 from Waterloo. Prior to graduating, I did some time in provincial and federal government in various co-op roles. This included roles in environment policy, transit policy, infrastructure policy, education policy, and finance policy. By the time I graduated from my Undergraduate, I had about 20 months government experience, plus a couple of full-time offers from the Federal government on the table.

Based on my own experiences and research, I've written a breakdown of some of the common master's level policy programs out there, you can DM me for more info if you want. Note of course, that this is my opinion and not presented as fact. While I do present facts and figures to back it up, it is by no means a factual piece, nor does it represent the views of my employer in which school is better. These are solely my views.

Waterloo MPS

Waterloo MPS is overall a solid pick for people wanting to enter all levels of government. I sat with these guys during my undergraduate as a professor was kind enough to allow me to sit in on his graduate-level teaching, and the caliber of the teaching plus the Co-op is great. Plenty of these people are with me in Ottawa, many having secured permanent full-time roles. The MPS boasts a Co-op hire rate of 95-100 percent (verified by the MPS Director as 100 percent for Summer 2020, Fall 2020, Summer 2021, and Fall 2021 aka. the past 4 co-op cycles) and has excellent job outcomes both federally and provincially.

I have great admiration for the Director of the MPS. He has assembled a great program and has flexed his connections to help secure Co-ops for his students. In Spring 2020, when COVID was in full swing, he personally and tirelessly reached out and talked to his contacts in government to secure the last couple of students their Co-op jobs for the summer.

The format of the program is 8 months full-time school, 8 months paid Co-op, and 4 months a major team project. Almost everyone does the major team project remotely and works full-time during it. So it’s pretty much 8 months of schooling only and you’re off to doing paid work. People usually transition from being a student to a full-timer right after their 8 months Co-op is done.

I also find that this program is more diverse than traditional policy schools, which are usually filled with students from undergrads like political science, economics, sociology, legal studies, etc. Since the MPS does not have any major/course specific prerequisites, you see more students in different varying fields come in, which contributes to a diverse wealth of knowledge sharing between students.

As the MPS is just over a decade or so old, it isn't exactly at the level of some decades-established policy schools, which I speak on later on. However, it is an all-around very solid program. They run a really tight ship and the program markets itself very well as a "conveyer belt" program - get people, sharpen up their skills, and make cookie cutter policy analysts at fast speed. The only downside is that the MPS is not funded, so you’re going to be paying the full $23,000 tuition bill.

Queen’s MPA

Queen’s is the King (or the Queen I guess?) of provincial government. I would say that Queen’s is the number one place to go if you’re intent on working for the Ontario government. The Ontario government hires from Queens in droves, mainly due to having a long reputation with Queens and a historically strong relationship.

The program format is 8 months full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4 months, and then 4 months schooling on weekends. Similar to Waterloo, most people work full-time after they are done the first 8 months.

Queen’s is definitely the top choice for provincial, and along with a cheap tuition of less than $20,000 (oftentimes funded generously by scholarships), it’s a great deal. With a strong application, you are likely to pay less than $10,000 total for the tuition.

Carleton MPPA

Definitely the king of federal government, and a top choice for anyone who wants to work federal. Carleton has an over 50 years established relationship with the federal government, and the professors here are routinely retired public servants or current public servants who teach part-time here and there. Carleton, by nature of being in Ottawa, feeds their students primarily into the Federal government.

The program is 8 months of full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4-8 months, and then people usually finish off their degree during the evenings while working part-time. Again, similar to Queen’s and Waterloo, you really only do 8 months of school.

An added benefit of Carleton is the absolutely amazing funding packages. And it’s absolutely amazing. Carleton offered me a whopping $46,000 in funding. Of that, $26,000 was straight up scholarships, while $20,000 was from a TA position. The tuition of the program is only $23,000. So these guys essentially PAID ME to go to their school.

For the federal level, Carleton absolutely comes on top here. From my experience, Carleton and uOttawa make up about 80-85% of student hires in federal, and something like 70% of full-time workers I know come from one of those two schools.

University of Ottawa MA Public Admin

I won’t say much here because it’s Carleton all over again. Whatever I said for Carleton, applies to uOttawa. Funny enough, uOttawa and Carleton have a small rivalry with their Master’s programs. All around another top federal choice.

I will say that I have great respect for the Public Admin focus that uOttawa has. I find that many policy schools now are cutting back their public administration curricula and instead focusing on the “sexier” field of public policy. And I get it, students are attracted to public policy – they aren’t as attracted to understanding the mundane machinery of government. They want to solve problems in the world whether it be the environment, economy, infrastructure, housing, or transit, provide options 1, 2, 3, and be done with their briefing note. But the problem with the policy focus is that you end up with students who are excellent policy thinkers that are able to put forward good policy solutions to problems, but very poor understanders of how the administration of government works and how policy ideas get turned into actual policy.

I feel that an understanding of how the public service functions and its relationship to the elected political officials is vital for any policy analyst job, as well as an understanding of how to navigate the complex and oftentimes confusing labyrinth that is the bureaucracy. This is something that a Public Admin focus does well in.

UofT Munk MPP

I’m sorry. I know how hyped up UofT is at times, but I mostly have bad things to say about this program.

UofT MPP is overall a disappointment and it seems like an outdated program. While all the programs I mentioned above are one-year “job creation” programs that focus on feeding people in Co-ops and having them transition to full-time work quickly, UofT’s MPP reads more like a traditional 2-year academic program, with a strong focus on rigorous courses.

The UofT MPP has some of the worst internship options out here, with a 4-month summer internship between your first and second year. Because you’re expected to go back to school full-time after this, you are unable to be seamlessly transitioned into full-time work like many of the other programs above. Managers love it when they can just promote a student to a full-timer and have them start right away. They love it much less when the student says, “hey sorry, can you wait 8 months for me to finish school?”

To be precise, the discontinuous 8 month FT, summer internship, then another 8 months FT format has significant disadvantages both at the provincial (Ontario) and federal level. Provincially, only current students are given access to internal postings and so plenty who are able to transition directly into full-time without having to go back to school get "poached" into full-time roles. This is especially true as since the Conservatives were elected in 2018, given that external postings are subject to high-level reviews before being approved, and so internal hiring of students is one of the few ways for managers to get fresh blood.

At the federal level, students and former students are able to be appointed full-time without a competition/applying (known as "bridging"). This is most favorably given to current students who can start immediately, without having to go back to school. Networking for opportunities is far easier for both levels of government when you are still in the system, as you have far greater access to meetings, emails, Teams accounts, etc.

The UofT MPP tuition is $45,000 in total, double the other programs mentioned above. As far as I understand, funding packages are limited to some thousands of dollars. You’re sinking an additional 8 months in lost wages, plus additional tuition.

It’s just not a good deal overall. When people from Carleton, Queens, and Waterloo are being fed into the workplace within 8 months with programs of half the tuition that was generously subsidized based on the scholarships provided, UofT’s program just lacks “feeder” mentality on getting people on the job quickly.

The small upside is that the UofT MPP does have some more diversity in employment. Non-profits, NGOs, private sector consulting, and other positions tend to be more noticeable at UofT’s MPP, compared to the straight up government feeders of other programs. But if your goal really is to get onboarded into a government job quickly, with a cheap degree to boot, UofT is not the place to go in my view.

Ryerson MA Public Policy and Administration

This program is, in my opinion, a relatively mediocre choice. The problem that I usually see here is that if you got into Ryerson, you might as well go to Queen’s or Carleton because you probably got into those too.

The employment prospects here are just not as good, mainly due to the lack of an established relationship between Ryerson and either Provincial or Federal government.

The degree itself is the cheapest out of anything mentioned, but it’s just not as good of a deal. This is especially true if Carleton and Queen’s are pumping out huge scholarships

For those who are already working though, the Ryerson program does offer a way to complete the degree at night while still continuing to work full-time.

Western MPA

Admittedly, I know very little about this program, but it seems to be the place to go if you want to be in local government. Western’s MPA specializes specifically in municipal government, and I can’t see Waterloo, Queen’s or Carleton filling this gap.

 

[Joseph_Eze]

10 hours ago, TheZarosian said:

Hello All,

Time for my yearly post!

I am a policy analyst that works full-time in an indeterminate (permanent) position for the Federal Government. I started working full-time in Spring 2019 and started my MPPA at Carleton part-time in Fall 2019 concurrently, which I finished in Spring 2021. Overall, I have about 4.5 years experience in government, 1.5 of which was from co-op, and another 3 from full-time work.

I graduated from my BA in Political Science in Spring 2019 from Waterloo. Prior to graduating, I did some time in provincial and federal government in various co-op roles. This included roles in environment policy, transit policy, infrastructure policy, education policy, and finance policy. By the time I graduated from my Undergraduate, I had about 20 months government experience, plus a couple of full-time offers from the Federal government on the table.

Based on my own experiences and research, I've written a breakdown of some of the common master's level policy programs out there, you can DM me for more info if you want. Note of course, that this is my opinion and not presented as fact. While I do present facts and figures to back it up, it is by no means a factual piece, nor does it represent the views of my employer in which school is better. These are solely my views.

Waterloo MPS

Waterloo MPS is overall a solid pick for people wanting to enter all levels of government. I sat with these guys during my undergraduate as a professor was kind enough to allow me to sit in on his graduate-level teaching, and the caliber of the teaching plus the Co-op is great. Plenty of these people are with me in Ottawa, many having secured permanent full-time roles. The MPS boasts a Co-op hire rate of 95-100 percent (verified by the MPS Director as 100 percent for Summer 2020, Fall 2020, Summer 2021, and Fall 2021 aka. the past 4 co-op cycles) and has excellent job outcomes both federally and provincially.

I have great admiration for the Director of the MPS. He has assembled a great program and has flexed his connections to help secure Co-ops for his students. In Spring 2020, when COVID was in full swing, he personally and tirelessly reached out and talked to his contacts in government to secure the last couple of students their Co-op jobs for the summer.

The format of the program is 8 months full-time school, 8 months paid Co-op, and 4 months a major team project. Almost everyone does the major team project remotely and works full-time during it. So it’s pretty much 8 months of schooling only and you’re off to doing paid work. People usually transition from being a student to a full-timer right after their 8 months Co-op is done.

I also find that this program is more diverse than traditional policy schools, which are usually filled with students from undergrads like political science, economics, sociology, legal studies, etc. Since the MPS does not have any major/course specific prerequisites, you see more students in different varying fields come in, which contributes to a diverse wealth of knowledge sharing between students.

As the MPS is just over a decade or so old, it isn't exactly at the level of some decades-established policy schools, which I speak on later on. However, it is an all-around very solid program. They run a really tight ship and the program markets itself very well as a "conveyer belt" program - get people, sharpen up their skills, and make cookie cutter policy analysts at fast speed. The only downside is that the MPS is not funded, so you’re going to be paying the full $23,000 tuition bill.

Queen’s MPA

Queen’s is the King (or the Queen I guess?) of provincial government. I would say that Queen’s is the number one place to go if you’re intent on working for the Ontario government. The Ontario government hires from Queens in droves, mainly due to having a long reputation with Queens and a historically strong relationship.

The program format is 8 months full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4 months, and then 4 months schooling on weekends. Similar to Waterloo, most people work full-time after they are done the first 8 months.

Queen’s is definitely the top choice for provincial, and along with a cheap tuition of less than $20,000 (oftentimes funded generously by scholarships), it’s a great deal. With a strong application, you are likely to pay less than $10,000 total for the tuition.

Carleton MPPA

Definitely the king of federal government, and a top choice for anyone who wants to work federal. Carleton has an over 50 years established relationship with the federal government, and the professors here are routinely retired public servants or current public servants who teach part-time here and there. Carleton, by nature of being in Ottawa, feeds their students primarily into the Federal government.

The program is 8 months of full-time school, followed by Co-op of 4-8 months, and then people usually finish off their degree during the evenings while working part-time. Again, similar to Queen’s and Waterloo, you really only do 8 months of school.

An added benefit of Carleton is the absolutely amazing funding packages. And it’s absolutely amazing. Carleton offered me a whopping $46,000 in funding. Of that, $26,000 was straight up scholarships, while $20,000 was from a TA position. The tuition of the program is only $23,000. So these guys essentially PAID ME to go to their school.

For the federal level, Carleton absolutely comes on top here. From my experience, Carleton and uOttawa make up about 80-85% of student hires in federal, and something like 70% of full-time workers I know come from one of those two schools.

University of Ottawa MA Public Admin

I won’t say much here because it’s Carleton all over again. Whatever I said for Carleton, applies to uOttawa. Funny enough, uOttawa and Carleton have a small rivalry with their Master’s programs. All around another top federal choice.

I will say that I have great respect for the Public Admin focus that uOttawa has. I find that many policy schools now are cutting back their public administration curricula and instead focusing on the “sexier” field of public policy. And I get it, students are attracted to public policy – they aren’t as attracted to understanding the mundane machinery of government. They want to solve problems in the world whether it be the environment, economy, infrastructure, housing, or transit, provide options 1, 2, 3, and be done with their briefing note. But the problem with the policy focus is that you end up with students who are excellent policy thinkers that are able to put forward good policy solutions to problems, but very poor understanders of how the administration of government works and how policy ideas get turned into actual policy.

I feel that an understanding of how the public service functions and its relationship to the elected political officials is vital for any policy analyst job, as well as an understanding of how to navigate the complex and oftentimes confusing labyrinth that is the bureaucracy. This is something that a Public Admin focus does well in.

UofT Munk MPP

I’m sorry. I know how hyped up UofT is at times, but I mostly have bad things to say about this program.

UofT MPP is overall a disappointment and it seems like an outdated program. While all the programs I mentioned above are one-year “job creation” programs that focus on feeding people in Co-ops and having them transition to full-time work quickly, UofT’s MPP reads more like a traditional 2-year academic program, with a strong focus on rigorous courses.

The UofT MPP has some of the worst internship options out here, with a 4-month summer internship between your first and second year. Because you’re expected to go back to school full-time after this, you are unable to be seamlessly transitioned into full-time work like many of the other programs above. Managers love it when they can just promote a student to a full-timer and have them start right away. They love it much less when the student says, “hey sorry, can you wait 8 months for me to finish school?”

To be precise, the discontinuous 8 month FT, summer internship, then another 8 months FT format has significant disadvantages both at the provincial (Ontario) and federal level. Provincially, only current students are given access to internal postings and so plenty who are able to transition directly into full-time without having to go back to school get "poached" into full-time roles. This is especially true as since the Conservatives were elected in 2018, given that external postings are subject to high-level reviews before being approved, and so internal hiring of students is one of the few ways for managers to get fresh blood.

At the federal level, students and former students are able to be appointed full-time without a competition/applying (known as "bridging"). This is most favorably given to current students who can start immediately, without having to go back to school. Networking for opportunities is far easier for both levels of government when you are still in the system, as you have far greater access to meetings, emails, Teams accounts, etc.

The UofT MPP tuition is $45,000 in total, double the other programs mentioned above. As far as I understand, funding packages are limited to some thousands of dollars. You’re sinking an additional 8 months in lost wages, plus additional tuition.

It’s just not a good deal overall. When people from Carleton, Queens, and Waterloo are being fed into the workplace within 8 months with programs of half the tuition that was generously subsidized based on the scholarships provided, UofT’s program just lacks “feeder” mentality on getting people on the job quickly.

The small upside is that the UofT MPP does have some more diversity in employment. Non-profits, NGOs, private sector consulting, and other positions tend to be more noticeable at UofT’s MPP, compared to the straight up government feeders of other programs. But if your goal really is to get onboarded into a government job quickly, with a cheap degree to boot, UofT is not the place to go in my view.

Ryerson MA Public Policy and Administration

This program is, in my opinion, a relatively mediocre choice. The problem that I usually see here is that if you got into Ryerson, you might as well go to Queen’s or Carleton because you probably got into those too.

The employment prospects here are just not as good, mainly due to the lack of an established relationship between Ryerson and either Provincial or Federal government.

The degree itself is the cheapest out of anything mentioned, but it’s just not as good of a deal. This is especially true if Carleton and Queen’s are pumping out huge scholarships

For those who are already working though, the Ryerson program does offer a way to complete the degree at night while still continuing to work full-time.

Western MPA

Admittedly, I know very little about this program, but it seems to be the place to go if you want to be in local government. Western’s MPA specializes specifically in municipal government, and I can’t see Waterloo, Queen’s or Carleton filling this gap.

 

Queen's MPA actually goes like this:

8 months of schooling, followed by 4 months of co-op. Within that 4 months, students need to return to complete their summer term - 2 units. Which will take about a week each - it's accelerated for summer. This is based off their website. Hope I didn't misinterpret it!

[TheZarosian]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Eze said:

Queen's MPA actually goes like this:

8 months of schooling, followed by 4 months of co-op. Within that 4 months, students need to return to complete their summer term - 2 units. Which will take about a week each - it's accelerated for summer. This is based off their website. Hope I didn't misinterpret it!

Thanks - they must have changed it. I recall an online option being introduced as COVID started. Prior to that, it was a weekend option to accommodate people working.

EDIT: 

As I understand it now from here: https://www.queensu.ca/sps/sites/webpublish.queensu.ca.spswww/files/files/Programs/Courses/MPA/MPA Road to Completion.pdf, it is only one course to be taken in summer, as the Co-op counts as a "credit"

Edited April 6, 2022 by TheZarosian

[FiggiGrad]

All those waiting on UofT MPP acceptance check your ACORN account's again. My account shows that I have been invited to the 2022-2023 session!