arkel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Today I met with one of my profs from undergrad, and the conversation turned to my grad applications. I mentioned that I was interviewing at School X to work with Prof. Y, and he promptly informed me that Prof Y is "crazy" (his words, not mine). Apparently Prof Y has been known to use his grad students and take credit for their work, and he mentioned 2 of his previous advisees (now successful scientists) who now do not have contact with Prof Y and actively avoid him. I really do trust this prof to have my best interests at heart, and he has been incredibly helpful in giving me advice about schools before. I wasn't really excited about School X because of its location, but I didn't want to rule it out because Prof. Y is a huge name in my planned field and I was looking forward to meeting with him. I'm a vey impressionable person... I typically assume the best of everyone, but when I hear things like this I have very strong emotional reactions... When I hear that people I admire are actually terrible to others, I immediately feel like I don't want anything to do with them anymore. I just know that if I do visit School X my interactions with Prof Y would be coloured by what I've heard...even if he is nice to me, I will think it's only on the surface. To complicate matters, another school has invited me to their recruitment weekend at the same time, and now that I've learned this about Prof. Y, this other school's weekend is looking more and more appealing (The POIs are letting me come another time, but I would prefer to come to the official weekend). My prof's comments obviously raise a huge red flag, but I just want to make sure I don't act rashly based on my strong feelings about this... Also, if I completely reject Prof. Y's invitation for an interview, do you think it will affect me later on? He is the editor of the biggest journal in the subfield... Ugh... If anyone has any thoughts on this situation, it would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qbtacoma Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Trust your professor. He has given you specific, professional reasons for why Prof. Y will be an inappropriate advisor (as opposed to vague impressions), and those reasons are pretty damning. If you can stay away from a colleague like this and interact with him at a distance, do it. Go to the recruitment weekend for the school without Professor Y. If he/School X treats you coolly after this then you will have some indirect verification of your undergrad professor's assessment. You don't need to put up with someone dishonest for your degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langoustine Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Whoa scary! Good that both school are offering alternatives...maybe take the alternate weekend for School X? I would trust your undergrad prof. I too am very afraid of bad POIs; a friend of mine had one that basically checked out while she was doing her PhD...luckily she was co-advised and just joined the other lab full time. I agree with qbtacoma, your relationship with your POI is very important... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJK Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I agree with qbtacoma, if this professor has this reputation he is not someone you want to be your boss (since he clearly won't be your mentor). If one of my professors said what yours said in such detail, especially the part about seeing former advisees avoid their former advisor, I would probably trust them. If you would really like to confirm you could email one of the former advisees to see if they will confirm or deny. From the posts you have been making, it seems like you have a number of interviews and if all goes well will have a number of offers. The concrete info you are being offered seems pretty damning. I would politely excuse yourself from the interview at Prof. Y's university and go to the other one. If I had been given this sort of info and has a number of possible directions I would not gamble with attending, and therefore what is the point in visiting? Would you seriously consider working with Professor Y at this point? I would work on getting the offer from the other school since that is likely one that you might want to accept more. Also, if you are comfortable with it, could you PM me Prof. Y's name? I'm also in cognitive psych though possibly in a different sub-area, and I would like to have an idea of who the good/bad guys are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Listen to your prof, he is doing you a HUGE favor. Walk away from abusive people like this Prof Y and don't look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 If you would really like to confirm you could email one of the former advisees to see if they will confirm or deny. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newms Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Your prof has your best interest at heart and if you trust him, then listen to what he says. Academics don't go around calling colleagues crazy or badmouthing them like that, so not knowing anything else about the situation, your prof's comments would be a huge, glaring red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkel Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thank you everyone for the great advice! I was pretty much thinking along these lines... At this point I really have no intention of working with Prof. Y, and I don't think anything that happens during the recruitment weekend could possibly change my mind. I am fortunate enough to have some other options, and even if this was my only option, I wouldn't want to take the gamble of possibly being completely miserable for the next 5 or so years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJingly Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Once upon a time, I was applying to work with a PI I was excited about. I heard from another PI that this person can be "very hard to deal with" and it turned out to be very true. I mean, it's the kind of stuff that makes you want to run around in circles screaming. Take your Prof's advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natsteel Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) I had a similar situation. The PA was doing some of the more exciting work in my subfield and so I considered School A. When I told one of my mentors, he gave me a warning like the OP received. And when I say "crazy," I mean "CRAZY!" Then, when I was in contact with a PA at School B, in the same city as A, I asked him what he thought of School A and the PA. He wrote back warning me of the same things as my mentor, in very honest though slightly more diplomatic terms. In fact, he was so honest that he said, "I fear I may have been too candid, I trust I have your discretion." The point is the PA at School B didn't have to go out of his way to let me know to avoid the "crazy" PA at School A. The fact that he did really convinced me to not even apply to School A. Edited January 25, 2011 by natsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOwlfan Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Thank you everyone for the great advice! I was pretty much thinking along these lines... At this point I really have no intention of working with Prof. Y, and I don't think anything that happens during the recruitment weekend could possibly change my mind. I am fortunate enough to have some other options, and even if this was my only option, I wouldn't want to take the gamble of possibly being completely miserable for the next 5 or so years. Such good advice from everyone here--and so great that you are looking elsewhere. I was in a similar situation as an MA student (although, nobody warned me in advance)--and I can't stress enough how difficult it is to be working for someone like that. It's made me very paranoid as I consider doctoral programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyntheticOrganiker Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 It's great to take advice from people, but always remember that some people have vendettas against others (not suggesting that any of the cases mentioned here are due to that, but it's good to realize that scientists are people too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
communications13 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Go to school X and meet Prof Y. While keeping what your Undergrad prof has said in mind, make your own impression on Prof Y and the school. I've had several professors that other people thought were "crazy" that, although they were kind of crazy, had a lot to offer and were some I learned the most from. Certainly listen and consider what your Undergrad Prof said, but it isn't an absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefox Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Go to school X and meet Prof Y. While keeping what your Undergrad prof has said in mind, make your own impression on Prof Y and the school. I've had several professors that other people thought were "crazy" that, although they were kind of crazy, had a lot to offer and were some I learned the most from. Certainly listen and consider what your Undergrad Prof said, but it isn't an absolute. I believe just seeing a professor during a school visit is not enough to determine if what was said about him is true. If OP wants some additional evidence, there is much more sense in talking with the presumably crazy professor's (ex)advisees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaphorical Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Also, if you are comfortable with it, could you PM me Prof. Y's name? I'm also in cognitive psych though possibly in a different sub-area, and I would like to have an idea of who the good/bad guys are. Same here...I'm also in cognitive psych and would really appreciate knowing this if you feel comfortable PMing me. Like everyone else has said, I would trust your professor and not go to the interview with Prof. Y. I wouldn't worry about offending him...I'm sure schools have experience with people declining interviews and will understand. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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