Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[New England Nat]

So maybe here is the time to tell a story...

I have a masters from an institution with a program in a very specific set of related subfields. The department in general largely existed to give masters degrees to teachers, but had for at least twenty five years been trying to turn itself into a place that also was a stepping stone between undergrads and top level PhD programs. It was not Miami of Ohio but that is a good example of such a place. They did this by hiring a bunch of young interesting historians as professors and hoping they hit big. In fact they did and than they would get poached away to somewhere better. Harvard is very pleased to take credit for employing someone with big impressive prizes for her work and letting people think she did that work for them when she did it in my corner of the woods. As the most prominant example.

They'd been getting people into very respectable very good PhD programs here and there during that time but they'd never gotten anyone into an Ivy. There were eight or so students in the department on the PhD market last year which was more than they normally had but I don't think the professors had thought about the idea that nearly all of them would get accepted somewhere. It was a case of we all had different mentors and so the shear number wasn't obvious to the entire department until about this time.

I was the first one to get an acceptence. I got into an Ivy. I got into an Ivy not far from them geographically. The faculty basically lost their shit on the department list serve. They said really lovely things about me that I wish they had said to my face or to each other but not to a list serve that included those 7 other people. It was unseemly. Two days later before my next class I get an email from one of the people who had done this, asking me to "play it cool" because there were other people waiting. As if I had been the one to loose my shit on the list serve.

I bought the grad students a round of beer and privately apologized. Almost all of them had acceptences within a week or two. Those that didn't had waitlists. Many schools have not said anything yet. It will come in time. I know it's hard. But i don't know that the people with acceptences have been gloating from what I've seen. Most advise for those of you with choices between good places is going on in PM. At least i know I've been talking over some with people who aren't asking me what living in Princeton is like.

I'm perfectly happy to talk over Princeton specific things with people. But there is more going on in the PM universer above this thread than I think people realize. There is a lot of consideration going on to appear not to be gloating.

YMMV

Edited February 12, 2012 by New England Nat

[Safferz]

I think the negative reactions are to posts where people have said something that some others have interpreted as "I have X Dream School and Y Dream School, oh how ever am I going to pick, woe is me, can I have advice."

My suggestion is that everyone's emotions are on edge (whether a good edge or a bad edge) and people are going to misread all sorts of stuff through no one's fault but human emotional excitability--and that angsting about making decisions is a good use of the Decisions, Decisions forum.

Last year there was a separate thread called "Decisions, decisions for historians"... maybe it's a good idea to get one of those started in the next week or two, since others in our discipline (and sub-fields) can offer more useful and specific advice than a general decisions forum for all grad school applicants.

[Gene Parmesan]

Last year there was a separate thread called "Decisions, decisions for historians"... maybe it's a good idea to get one of those started in the next week or two, since others in our discipline (and sub-fields) can offer more useful and specific advice than a general decisions forum for all grad school applicants.

Yes, and maybe even a "visit" thread in which applicants can speak to their past and current experiences of visiting schools they have interviews for, admitted, etc (what they can ask to students, faculty, etc)...especially how to politely ask about the specifics of funding etc. BUT, maybe that can go into "decisions, decisions."

[telemaque]

hahah...one of my siblings came home from college over winter break and told our parents he was going to major in history and wants to be a billionaire when he grows up. the naiveté of youth.

[oseirus]

So maybe here is the time to tell a story...

I have a masters from an institution with a program in a very specific set of related subfields. The department in general largely existed to give masters degrees to teachers, but had for at least twenty five years been trying to turn itself into a place that also was a stepping stone between undergrads and top level PhD programs. It was not Miami of Ohio but that is a good example of such a place. They did this by hiring a bunch of young interesting historians as professors and hoping they hit big. In fact they did and than they would get poached away to somewhere better. Harvard is very pleased to take credit for employing someone with big impressive prizes for her work and letting people think she did that work for them when she did it in my corner of the woods. As the most prominant example.

They'd been getting people into very respectable very good PhD programs here and there during that time but they'd never gotten anyone into an Ivy. There were eight or so students in the department on the PhD market last year which was more than they normally had but I don't think the professors had thought about the idea that nearly all of them would get accepted somewhere. It was a case of we all had different mentors and so the shear number wasn't obvious to the entire department until about this time.

I was the first one to get an acceptence. I got into an Ivy. I got into an Ivy not far from them geographically. The faculty basically lost their shit on the department list serve. They said really lovely things about me that I wish they had said to my face or to each other but not to a list serve that included those 7 other people. It was unseemly. Two days later before my next class I get an email from one of the people who had done this, asking me to "play it cool" because there were other people waiting. As if I had been the one to loose my shit on the list serve.

I bought the grad students a round of beer and privately apologized. Almost all of them had acceptences within a week or two. Those that didn't had waitlists. Many schools have not said anything yet. It will come in time. I know it's hard. But i don't know that the people with acceptences have been gloating from what I've seen. Most advise for those of you with choices between good places is going on in PM. At least i know I've been talking over some with people who aren't asking me what living in Princeton is like.

I'm perfectly happy to talk over Princeton specific things with people. But there is more going on in the PM universer above this thread than I think people realize. There is a lot of consideration going on to appear not to be gloating.

YMMV

Thanks for sharing ... there's a reason your 1B in my books ...

[oseirus]

hahah...one of my siblings came home from college over winter break and told our parents he was going to major in history and wants to be a billionaire when he grows up. the naiveté of youth.

wait wait wait ... what is this business about there being no money in history?!?!??! I just watched Nicholas Cage in National Treasure I & II and let me tell you what, he raked in the dough! Don't listen to tele folks! Plenty of money to be made if you do your research on the Freemasons!

[A Finicky Bean]

wait wait wait ... what is this business about there being no money in history?!?!??! I just watched Nicholas Cage in National Treasure I & II and let me tell you what, he raked in the dough! Don't listen to tele folks! Plenty of money to be made if you do your research on the Freemasons!

hahahahahaaaaaa!

[Safferz]

Any predictions on what schools we'll hear from next week?

[remenis]

Any predictions on what schools we'll hear from next week?

I was told most of the UCLA decisions will come out in the next week.... could be wrong though.

Oh I also definitely predict that Yale will have their Valentine's day rejections like they have in the past.

Edited February 12, 2012 by remenis

[oseirus]

Any predictions on what schools we'll hear from next week?

I guess I'd say we'll hear from at least one more Ivy ... makes sense ... and I don't think even all the schools that have been 'heard' from are done at this point ... I don't think UCLA will announce ... but then again when I make a prediction it seems to go the opposite way soooo ... take that for what it's worth

[TMP]

TMP: Just to get things straight. Are you saying that you made it into OSU and UW-M on the connections of your advisors? I guess it really is who you know!!! Lesson learned for next year's batch of applications. Congrats on your admits. Congrats to everyone else who received admits as well!

Please remember, there are those of us who haven't received good news or any news at all. So, instead of being preachy, try to be sympathetic. Many of you have done this more than once and I think that the experience of being turned down so many times should create a humbling affect, no? I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but in many instances I feel like some of those with multiple acceptances are literally trying to rub it in. Not cool.

I'm with vimundi on the support front. My family, friends, and colleagues never, ever gave up and pushed me to keep trying if this was my dream. They reminded me of all the hard work and efforts I've put in to plan for an acceptance into a PhD. There were so many times that I just wanted to drop the ball and move to another country and get a whole new identity. My professors, for what it's worth, went along and trusted me to do what i thought was the best for me.

That said about connections, I was going to PM you, Grimm, but I think my experience should be heard. Your comment made me think and I should tell what one can expect in graduate school.

Yes, I have professors who are well-connected. But they never, ever introduced me to anyone personally. No e-mail introductions. No handshakes when people came on campus for talks. At a recent conference, my adviser and I barely saw each other. So what did they do, really? As someone who's used to the professional job market and parents who relied on networking, I've been very frustrated that my professors didn't do any of what people do in the "real world." I doubted my self-worth in their eyes many times. I even wondered if my adviser's previous two students were actually introduced because, well, they seemed to be beter than me. Did she even care?!

Then while thinking about your comment, it hit me. They are passive. They're more likely to say, "I think you should apply to X and work with A, Y with B, and Z with C" and left it at that. I said, "Um, okay." Then I contacted A, B and C and introduced myself and said that my adviser suggested that I talk to you. Then there's more. One of the qualities that my adviser has that I truly admire is her savvy networking skills. I have stayed behind in talks or stopped in my tracks whenever I saw her talking to someone from outside of my university just to watch her engage with others. I did it because I thought, "Well, she's a big star and I want to be like her and be proud to be her student." It paid off to watch her body language and listen how she talked to those people. She taught me how important it is to be widely read and establish rapport with others who have different methodology or view on a particular subject (especially that our sub-field can be quite political!). All in the act of observation, no conversations on how to talk to So and So.

I employed what I've learned from her at a recent conference and... it really worked. I had professors hanging on every word that I said and were disappointed that the conversation was over so quickly. I was no longer just my adviser's student but someone who they'd really like to have as a future colleague.

FWIW, when I called my other professor abut my news, I shared that I had gotten into OSU, saving UW-M for when I officially got in. She said, "Well, did you have from Wisconsin?" I said, "Well, how would you know? I wasn't planning on telling you until it was official." She shrugged, "Because I heard from POI saving that he'd give you good news." I was surprised that he called her. I assumed that he also called my adviser. When I talked to her the next day, I asked if she had heard from UW-M, she said "No, I haven't heard anything. What do you know?"

Everyone operates differently in terms of networking. My adviser knew that if I wanted something badly enough, I'd take the intitative after she suggested places and names. She certainly wasn't aware that I had been paying attention until I told her and thank her for being a great example. Now that I'm realizing this, I can be a little less frustrated when my future professors are like this. Everyone's different.

I hope this makes you feel a little better, Grimm. I know you're very jealous right now. Everyone gets jealous in this process. Even I do get jealous whenever I hear of someone who got a BA from a top 10 history program and I just wonder to myself, why, why, why didn't I transfer to those places as an undergraduate? I don't get jealous of anyone who has a higher GPA/GRE than mine, just because I've done what I could.

[Veilside1]

Was anyone here waitlisted at U-Chicago? I know acceptances have gone out, but don't know if waitlistees have been notified.

[ReallyNiceGuy]

I just want to say that NewEnglandNat, TMP, and StrangeLight are 3 of the most helpful people that could ever possibly exist. Each one of them has been incredibly forthcoming, polite, and helpful to me; and not one of them has even the slightest idea of what I look like!

[A Finicky Bean]

I was told most of the UCLA decisions will come out in the next week.... could be wrong though.

Oh I also definitely predict that Yale will have their Valentine's day rejections like they have in the past.

I, too, was told by UCLA history department that they'd be coming out sometime next week. We'll see.

[New England Nat]

I just want to say that NewEnglandNat, TMP, and StrangeLight are 3 of the most helpful people that could ever possibly exist. Each one of them has been incredibly forthcoming, polite, and helpful to me; and not one of them has even the slightest idea of what I look like!

But you look like a Really Nice Guy

[Safferz]

I declined my UPenn offer, since I'm certain I won't be going there and it doesn't make sense to hold on to a spot when there's a waiting list. Not sure if they've notified waitlisted students of their status or not, but someone will be getting good news soon

[sandyvanb]

I have to say, I never got the impression that anyone here was gloating... The support and advice from everyone has been fantastic, and I am truly happy for those of you who have gotten your acceptances.

[crazedandinfused]

I have to say, I never got the impression that anyone here was gloating... The support and advice from everyone has been fantastic, and I am truly happy for those of you who have gotten your acceptances.

I wholeheartedly second this.

[oseirus]

But you look like a Really Nice Guy

I see I have stiff competition for corny jokes :-)

[New England Nat]

I declined my UPenn offer, since I'm certain I won't be going there and it doesn't make sense to hold on to a spot when there's a waiting list. Not sure if they've notified waitlisted students of their status or not, but someone will be getting good news soon

That's a really good thing to do. I would encourage people who have an offer they know they aren't going to take that it should be declined quickly. Same goes for applications pending decisions at schools lower on your list than the offer or offers you have in hand. It's not just about being fair to the people on the waiting lists, it's about making sure your relationships with the PoIs at those institutions remains professional.

[wikichic]

Thanks for doing that Safferz- It is really kind of you to do that so early in the process, especially if you're certain you're not attending. It gets the process moving and allows you to focus your attention to the programs you're really considering. Now you've opened up 2 spots at top programs for others. As a wait lister- I salute you, ma'am.

[Safferz]

Thanks for doing that Safferz- It is really kind of you to do that so early in the process, especially if you're certain you're not attending. It gets the process moving and allows you to focus your attention to the programs you're really considering. Now you've opened up 2 spots at top programs for others. As a wait lister- I salute you, ma'am.

It's the right thing to do! There's one more school at this stage that I'm close to declining, but I'd like to sleep on it for another day or two. I also haven't heard from my top choice yet, and I'm really curious to see how that pans out.

[wikichic]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you on your top choice. Your record has been absolutely incredible this cycle. I just wish that I was wait listed at any of the schools you've been accepted to, lol!

Edited February 12, 2012 by wikichic

[Hopin'-n-Prayin']

I used to daydream about being a top pro athlete, and about being a rock star...now I day dream about being accepted to Yale, Columbia, Penn and Princeton and still not have heard from my top choice ??!!?? Totally insane. Just like I wanted to be Emmitt Smith when I was growing up, I now want to be Safferz!!!!

...btw, Safferz, instead of just declining your Penn admission, can you assign to one of us?? We can decide on a lottery basis or by way of a special essay contest...or by who has the best stand-up routine (throwing you a bone, oseirus)...

[ReallyNiceGuy]

After one has been accepted into programs is it normal to not contact the program at all until a decision has been made? I'm 95% I'm going in one direction, but I feel like I'd be foolish to not wait until every decision and offer has been made before I move to contact someone within the department?