History of Art - MA/PhD 2009

[fullofpink]

Oh! found something: here's a version of that Princeton thing. It's not the same as what I was stating (which was a .pdf), but here it reminds about "funding" issues, especially in the case of dependents. However, they have a whole other page devoted to family oriented programs: http://gradschool.princeton.edu/studentlife/childcare/. I still can't find that original .pfd. I think they deleted it since they "offered" full funding.

Also, a woman who is above the average age with lots of teaching experience may be less of a risk compared to some fresh graduates who are entering grad school since they just want to "try it out" or are not sure what to do (I'm not saying anyone here is like that), annnnnd I know some people who have slid into some great programs just "trying it out." Ugh.

About the family issue, I was just wondering if that may be the case, however if it isn't, that's superb. I can't recall what other schools pregs applied to, but they may be considering the distance thing. Who knows? Without really knowing your credentials, or who else applied and what talents they had, there seriously is no way to know.

bob, I realllllly don't want to argue. I don't mean to be callus or anything, I was just asking if that was a possible reason. Clearly, it's not. But you should remember that all factors ARE considered in this case. Some programs may get 150 applications with 5-7 slots. It's a tough, tough decision. Anyone who applies is always susceptible to being discriminated in some way - "deemed" unfit for a variety of life reasons. Thanks to Malcolm Gladwell, Harvard gets 27k applications for its undergrad, 3,300 with perfect SATS and another 3,300 who were the valedictorian and so on, and only accepted 1,600. People get cut off for any number of reasons and commitments to other things might be the problem. Honestly, it's a terrible method, NONE of us would agree to it, but that is what we accept. First its them picking us, then if we are selected, it's us picking them. Nasty little game.

However pregs, I really am happy for you. What schools are you applying to again?

[Lapin]

While we're on the topic of family and children, I thought some of you might be interested in this piece from the Chronicle of Higher Ed, on the family-friendliness (or lack thereof) of research universities. http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/01/2009012701c.htm

It seems to be extremely unlikely that someone would be discriminated against for noting that they are married on a grad school app. However, when it comes to job interviews, especially for research-heavy positions, I've heard many an anecdote of female candidates removing their wedding ring and dressing to hide a baby bump so as not to give the impression that they have other priorities besides their careers. It's f-ing bullshit, but it is what it is, and when you have dozens of perfectly qualified people applying for one position, the decision does come down to the minor things, the stupid things, and yes, the discriminatory things. (Funny how progressive academics like to think they are.)

I'm not married, though I'm in a serious relationship, and it does make things much more difficult. I have the sad feeling that those who are unattached will always have the edge. I'm beginning to realize that I gave up on some programs that might have been great matches and applied to some that definitely were not, all in the hopes of coordinating my life with my SO's. Depressing shit, this is.

Pregs, I very much respect your efforts to chase down all that you want in life, and I wish more people had your guts.

[hardkore]

I've been following the results as a current MA student looking at PhD programs in the future and I find some of the statements (ahem, assumptions) about grad school life on here to be sweet but essentially over wrought and slightly strange. The main reason that grad school is a crap shoot is because professor A, who has long been known for studying X is now interested in studying Y, and is looking for students who can handle X and Y, or supplement the study for Y. As much as it might, I don't know, calm you or placate you to think that they even really care how much that fits into your personal life is kinda funny. They can't KNOW who you are and how much you are able to take, and committees dont make assumptions based on that. They can only go by what you've accomplished and your track record. Some people with stellar marks and experience across the board do leave, quit, not fit etc. In the end, it's really how much your interests fit into a department at THE MOMENT the committee meets. They honestly don't care if you have to move cross the world, have two kids in your arms and 500k in debt. It's..just..not about that? And also, the previous poster is truly right in this regard- you are expected to have a social life and schools encourage it, especially in the humanities- you are considered to be thinkers, philosophers and writers, not simply researchers. Go get an MLS if you want to do that. This is an artistic field- your colleagues are immensely important. A word of advice to those just coming out of undergrad- grad school is not about grades anymore, so follow your gut, remain polite but at this point in your lives, you're expected to have a voice of your own that you should be able to back up- professor's don't give a crap about how much you kiss their ass, in fact, grad students who do that are deemed to be immature. Grad school is becoming another thing to put on your resume...and its something other than that.

[ElusiveMuse]

Okay, I'm dying to know who posted the U of Delaware acceptance. Did they really phone you on a Sunday, or did you just not change the date when you posted? Also, any funding? Sorry, I'm waiting to hear from them so now I'm kind of freaked out that I haven't heard.

[jbr]

.

[ElusiveMuse]

Thanks! Congratulations on your acceptance!

I called them last week and they said they weren't done with the applications or decisions and to give them two weeks so I had put it out of my mind but now I'm keyed up about it again. Good to know there is a chance of MA funding. What is your sub-field?

[jbr]

.

[ElusiveMuse]

Okay. Mine is American art. Congrats again! Did they mention if they're having any kind of recruitment/new admit event?

[pregasauraus]

It seems to be extremely unlikely that someone would be discriminated against for noting that they are married on a grad school app. However, when it comes to job interviews, especially for research-heavy positions, I've heard many an anecdote of female candidates removing their wedding ring and dressing to hide a baby bump so as not to give the impression that they have other priorities besides their careers. It's f-ing bullshit, but it is what it is, and when you have dozens of perfectly qualified people applying for one position, the decision does come down to the minor things, the stupid things, and yes, the discriminatory things. (Funny how progressive academics like to think they are.)

I'm not married, though I'm in a serious relationship, and it does make things much more difficult. I have the sad feeling that those who are unattached will always have the edge. I'm beginning to realize that I gave up on some programs that might have been great matches and applied to some that definitely were not, all in the hopes of coordinating my life with my SO's. Depressing shit, this is.

Pregs, I very much respect your efforts to chase down all that you want in life, and I wish more people had your guts.

Thanks, Lapin. It might have taken me a little longer to get in the PhD race, but I ended up in a very well-paying job right after grad school, and decided to pay off a good chunk of my student loans from my bachelor's and master's degrees and pay for my wedding. I don't regret anything I've done, from that job to the marriage and the baby. Though I've never felt I had to hide the marriage, I have definitely not made it common knowledge to any school that I'm expecting a child. I know I've been quite vocal about it on this forum, but that's because it's coming up soon, and I am excited about it. And who's going to reject me here - we're all here to support one another through this stressful process.

I realize that it's unethical to discriminate, but that doesn't mean that it isn't practiced. Honestly, I don't feel that it had anything to do with my rejections. I know I'm qualified, but so far, this year isn't working for me. This has much more to do with my SOP not outlining my research intentions well enough than anything else. So, if the last four schools don't work out for me, I'll just regroup, get some good advice, try to get something else published, and apply again next year. The life of an academic is the only one for me, ideally. And I can't give that up. Not yet at least.

[fullofpink]

I know I'm qualified, but so far, this year isn't working for me. This has much more to do with my SOP not outlining my research intentions well enough than anything else. So, if the last four schools don't work out for me, I'll just regroup, get some good advice, try to get something else published, and apply again next year. The life of an academic is the only one for me, ideally. And I can't give that up. Not yet at least.

Remember, you still have four more!

[lunalee]

Great news, lunalee! I guess maybe there is some hope for those of us who haven't heard yet from the "big ones." I'm still going to assume I'm rejected just because it makes it easier to function until I hear for sure. You must be ecstatic!

Thanks ElusiveMuse! I am really excited because Yale was my longest long shot. I hadn't even given myself permission to hope that I'd get in. I understand assuming rejection as an act of self-preservation...I will keep my fingers crossed for you. If it helps, I don't think they've sent out all of their acceptances yet. I believe they might still be making final decisions. So, keep hope alive!

[ElusiveMuse]

Thanks for the crossed fingers! I didn't actually apply to Yale but I'm waiting to hear from Harvard, Columbia, and Penn (rejected from Stanford over the weekend, but I was sort of fine with it because their Americanist situation is kind of up in the air right now from what I understand). I've also seen a few later Art History Princeton accepts (congrats to whomever you are out there!) so there is hope, I suppose! I've still got my heart set on getting off the U of Michigan waitlist :wink:

[jbr]

.

[Lapin]

Pregs, you mentioned that you are teaching art history at the university-level, if my memory serves me right. I do too -- it's not art history proper, in the actual AH department, but art history-themed classes that fulfill students' general humanities requirements. Anyway, I'm curious as to how and whether you discussed your teaching in your SOP.

I was warned by a prof knowledgeable about major research schools not to highlight my teaching over my research interests -- indeed, to avoid mentioning my teaching at all unless I could connect it to my research. I tried to follow his advice, but still addressed the teaching early in my SOP, saying that it reinforced my decision to pursue a career in academe, and I'm wondering if this hurt my application at the major, top-notch programs. If we do another round of apps -- we can still be optimistic and assume that we won't -- it might be wise to consider programs that seem dedicated to pedagogy and expect students to teach and TA heavily -- might give us, and anyone else with teaching experience, an edge.

Of course, then, there's the whole issue of why top schools don't want teachers... realistically, how many of us are likely to become these article-churning machines with the luxury of teaching a 1-2 courseload and taking every 4th semester off to write a new book? The priorities seem to be pretty screwed....

[ElusiveMuse]

I think I'm going to go ahead and take it as a bad sign that I did not get a call from Delaware on Friday. :|

[pregasauraus]

Pregs, you mentioned that you are teaching art history at the university-level, if my memory serves me right. I do too -- it's not art history proper, in the actual AH department, but art history-themed classes that fulfill students' general humanities requirements. Anyway, I'm curious as to how and whether you discussed your teaching in your SOP.

I was warned by a prof knowledgeable about major research schools not to highlight my teaching over my research interests -- indeed, to avoid mentioning my teaching at all unless I could connect it to my research. I tried to follow his advice, but still addressed the teaching early in my SOP, saying that it reinforced my decision to pursue a career in academe, and I'm wondering if this hurt my application at the major, top-notch programs. If we do another round of apps -- we can still be optimistic and assume that we won't -- it might be wise to consider programs that seem dedicated to pedagogy and expect students to teach and TA heavily -- might give us, and anyone else with teaching experience, an edge.

Lapin, once I read your post I immediately realized that this must be one of glaring problems with my SOP. I do talk about my teaching, and though I do frame it as feeding into my research interests, I think I probably highlighted the teaching over the research. When I do my applications for next year (I hope you don't have to!) I will most certainly either not mention the teaching or diminish the importance of it in the SOP. That, or I'll focus on the schools you mentioned are more dedicated to pedagogy - but which schools are included along that qualification?

I was wondering why my application seemed to be pretty well-received last year (2 wait lists vs. 4 outright rejections this year) and this year is going so horribly. But last year's SOP focused only on my research interests and didn't mention my teaching background. Why, oh why did I change that SOP?!?

[void]

Hey Preg,

We're all behind you here! I have heard the same types of things about removing your wedding ring (if you are a woman of course) when interviewing for academic positions and all of the horrible, should-be-illegal discriminatory practices that do go on. And that just seems so wrong to me that teaching experience would be a negative strike, but I think that's perhaps a possibility. It does not seem like it should be, as that means you have been working and getting even more experience in your field, arguably putting you way ahead of less experienced applicants straight out of undergrad. Although, as you were saying, it may explain it if you put more weight on your teaching than your research experience on your SOP. I think it may be a good idea, which I imagine you may already know and were planning on, to ask the schools why you were rejected so you can improve the application the next year. Also, the game isn't over yet, you still have some schools to go.

[ArtHist85]

Many schools had to cut the number of PhD's they could take because of funding. One of the schools I am waitlisted for only took 4 this year. Especially if they are in NY or California because their budget is a mess!

[x78s]

Hello all.

I've been rejected at Brown and accepted at UMD, still waiting on three others. One of which is CUNY--and I saw someone posted a result over on the results page. Anyone else hear from them? I am away on spring break right now and can't check my (snail) mail. The other two I'm waiting on are Bryn Mawr (who will also notify via snail mail) and Harvard (which it seems should notify by email if I'm in and snail mail if I'm out).

I won't be back at my house until a week from today...I may go crazy. CRAZY!

[ArtHist85]

I was rejected at CUNY. It came in via snail mail.

Fear the small envelope!

[artandrelig]

fyi, small envelope does NOT necessarily mean bad news!

i got into UVA w/a standard size envelope and a one page letter from the department head....

[void]

Yeah the small envelope could be anything. I've received both in small envelopes.

[georgica1]

Since it looks like I'll be reapplying again next year (waiting on 2, but it doesn't look good) I've been thinking a lot about how to improve my application and one thing that I definitely think went all wrong was my SOP. So, out of curiosity, how specific were all of you about your research interests in your SOP? Did you propose specific projects/artists, or just general areas? I went the more general route and am now thinking that was absolutely a mistake.

Also, for those of you who applied (or considered applying) to CUNY Grad Center, particularly those in Modern/Contemporary any insight/information? I'm planning on expanding my list of schools considerably for next year, but know almost nothing about CUNY's program except for the fact that a lot of people seem to be applying on this forum.

[mm_donuts]

Since it looks like I'll be reapplying again next year (waiting on 2, but it doesn't look good) I've been thinking a lot about how to improve my application and one thing that I definitely think went all wrong was my SOP. So, out of curiosity, how specific were all of you about your research interests in your SOP? Did you propose specific projects/artists, or just general areas? I went the more general route and am now thinking that was absolutely a mistake.

When I started my applications, I had no idea what admissions committees would look for in an SOP, so I enlisted the help of a very kind professor from undergrad to literally go through draft after draft with me. If you happen to have a professor willing to do this with you, definitely do it!

The SOP: After summarizing my undergrad work, professional experience, and research experience, I went on to describe my honors thesis in detail. Then I outlined some themes from that paper that I would like to continue to explore in grad school. I also connected these themes to a seminar paper or two, to show consistency in my interests. I didn't propose any specific topics or artists for further research, just the themes and subfield.

I really hope you don't have to go through this again, but if that was at all helpful, feel free to PM me (anyone), and I can go into more detail. Good luck georgica!

[mm_donuts]

Also, I wanted to add that I got my BA two years ago. Don't be afraid to ask an undergrad professor for some type of help with your application - they want you to succeed. It reflects well on their department/school when their undergrads go off to great grad programs.