Hardest year ever?

[psycherfun]

Given that the recent economic downturn has increased the number of grad. school applicants while decreasing the number of available slots (due to less funding), would it be safe to assume that this is one of the hardest years in recent history to be admitted to grad. school? My response is a resounding YES!

[Aeternalis]

Why hello there Debbie Downer! :roll:

[dragynally]

Actually I get the feeling less people are going to apply due to lack of funding...

[IvyHope]

Apps are up, in many places exponentially. Most people agree that this is one of, if not the, most competitive year they can remember.

Chatting with my advisor yesterday, who is on the ad comm in my dept, was very revealing. They are looking at admitting 4-5x more students than the average year. Obviously there isn't the funding or advising to support them, so they're trying to make decisions about which of these admission-worthy students will get acceptance.

[linden]

It is true that applications have increased in some academic disciplines. But, you should also keep in mind that the number of candidates who are adequately prepared and have strong applications probably remains steady. Remember, many of these students are applying for advanced degrees because they are unable to get job offers or fear they will not get job offers. But, it takes a certain amount of preparation to apply to graduate school: you have to have a good GPA; in many fields, you need research experience; you have to study for and score well on GREs; you need strong recommendation letters; you need complementary work experience; you need to write strong and convincing SOPs. Many of us have been preparing to apply for years; we focused our academic and professional energies on this goal. I think in most cases it will be clear to admissions committees who the last-minute candidates are and who the serious candidates are.

In fact, if you look at the results page, it seems that many disciplines and programs are making their decisions at around the same time they did last year. I know that has been the case with most schools in my discipline. If there were a larger number of strong candidates among the increased number of applicants, probably the schools would not be able to make decisions within the same time frame.

Remember also that the economic situation did not start to turn dire until the late summer of 2008. Six months is not enough for most students or professionals to turn mediocre candidacies into stellar applications. Maybe next year's batch of applicants will contain a greater percentage of strong applicants, because those students will have had three semesters to prepare their candidacies for advanced studies. But, my guess is that this year's group of applicants probably contains the same number of strong contenders. Good luck!

[Dinali]

I think you're right. Harvard has had record numbers of undergrad applicants every year for the last several years, with record percentages of those also applying for financial aid. I imagine the same holds true for other top universities. With those guys graduating into a faltering economy, staying in school another five years must look pretty enticing. Add to that the load of people going back to school after a break, for career development purposes, or as a way to ride out the recession on a stipend . . .

[Falmouth]

I think a decrease in funded slots is having a major impact and that this is definitely the most difficult year in a long time. Current students are also having difficulty with funding. Not all students are guaranteed funding for more than their first year.

[IvyHope]

It is true that applications have increased in some academic disciplines. But, you should also keep in mind that the number of candidates who are adequately prepared and have strong applications probably remains steady. Remember, many of these students are applying for advanced degrees because they are unable to get job offers or fear they will not get job offers. But, it takes a certain amount of preparation to apply to graduate school: you have to have a good GPA; in many fields, you need research experience; you have to study for and score well on GREs; you need strong recommendation letters; you need complementary work experience; you need to write strong and convincing SOPs. Many of us have been preparing to apply for years; we focused our academic and professional energies on this goal. I think in most cases it will be clear to admissions committees who the last-minute candidates are and who the serious candidates are.

This is true, but be careful not to assume that just because someone is entering grad school because of the economy, this must mean they are a less-competitive candidate. There are likely just as many folks in the workforce who had high GPAs and made the decision to enter grad school, took the GRE, and boom, are a competitive candidate.

I think a decrease in funded slots is having a major impact and that this is definitely the most difficult year in a long time. Current students are also having difficulty with funding. Not all students are guaranteed funding for more than their first year.

Yes...this is why I am applying to other programs this year, in spite of my current relative contentment in my program now. My department/director had to make a difficult decision between using the limited assistantships available to continue funding his current students, or to use them as recruiting tools for new students. Unfortunately, depts are ranked in such a way that admissions play a bigger role in determining the success of the department than to attrition/completion rates. :-(

[cardnav]

It's also important to realize that most committees are designed so that a third of the applicants don't even make it to their desks. Usually the admins are very generic rules (i.e. below X.X GPA or GRE score) to divide people into the "Definitely want them", "Good match", and "Definitely no" categories. More importantly, many of the math/science programs are more numbers based so the admins have a very good idea how to file people. Therefore, 2/3 of the applicants are really debated in the adcom. Yes, when the total number rises, they see more applicants, but not that many since 1/3 have already been removed from the pile.

Also, as previously mentioned, the economic crisis didn't peak until the summer/early fall. For many people scrounging up recommendations, writing a SoP, etc. was nearly impossible in such a short amount of time. If anything, I'd expect to see a lot of late applicants and a lot of applicants next year.

[frankdux]

Also, as previously mentioned, the economic crisis didn't peak until the summer/early fall. For many people scrounging up recommendations, writing a SoP, etc. was nearly impossible in such a short amount of time. If anything, I'd expect to see a lot of late applicants and a lot of applicants next year.

short amount of time? i did 10 applications in the span of 8 weeks and i didnt start until early fall, and i took my sweet time. anyone who was laid off could have easily done what i did in the span of 3 weeks or less.

i'm not really sure what your applications entailed, but it doesnt take months to put one together.

[IvyHope]

Lord.

Some people take more time than others. It could be done in a short amount of time, but it's also feasible that some people needed to shift into grad-school mode, study for GRE, etc.

It could also be argued that the economic crisis hasn't even begun to peak.

Regardless, it's not necessary to argue about how long someone thinks apps take. The point is very simple- there are more applicants this year.

[socialpsych]

This fall at my school (medium-sized, private, prestigious) there were at least five articles in the school paper about how all the seniors were thinking of applying to grad school because of the economy. Like IvyHope, I wouldn't assume that anyone who wasn't thinking about it before this fall couldn't be a very competitive candidate.

Obviously, there are fewer spots open due to funding cuts. Also, I have gotten a sense that many programs are looking for strong commitment before making offers, because they don't want to over- or under-admit so they can use precisely all their funding but no more.

Of course applying to grad school in any year is no walk in the park, but I like to feel especially sorry for myself for having applied during such a tough, competitive year!

[IvyHope]

This fall at my school (medium-sized, private, prestigious) there were at least five articles in the school paper about how all the seniors were thinking of applying to grad school because of the economy. Like IvyHope, I wouldn't assume that anyone who wasn't thinking about it before this fall couldn't be a very competitive candidate.

Obviously, there are fewer spots open due to funding cuts. Also, I have gotten a sense that many programs are looking for strong commitment before making offers, because they don't want to over- or under-admit so they can use precisely all their funding but no more.

Of course applying to grad school in any year is no walk in the park, but I like to feel especially sorry for myself for having applied during such a tough, competitive year!

lol- normally feeling sorry for oneself is not cool, but in these circumstances, you go right ahead! we should all feel a bit sorry for ourselves, I say... :wink:

[Tritonetelephone]

In fact, if you look at the results page, it seems that many disciplines and programs are making their decisions at around the same time they did last year. I know that has been the case with most schools in my discipline. If there were a larger number of strong candidates among the increased number of applicants, probably the schools would not be able to make decisions within the same time frame.

3 or 4 of my schools made decisions by Feb. 8th last year, but I haven't heard from any of them. I know, I'm working with a very small sample and timelines aren't going to be consistent every year. But it still seems possible to me that decisions are coming later than usual. Or I could be on 3 or 4 waiting lists. Who knows.

[gadhelyn]

This is for an academic degree, not a job, no matter how much like a job it may seem. Just because some middle-aged guy who's been working for GlaxoSmithKline for 15 years with a BS in Biology is applying to the same programs I am does not necessarily push me out of the running. I would venture a guess that many people who are turning to grad school as an escape from unemployment have not attended a class in years, and a good chunk of them have probably been working jobs that aren't relevant to the degree. If I were on an adcomm I would take time away from the classroom and relevancy of employment as some markers of who'd I'd look for. Someone who's been out of a classroom for 15 years doing quality control for a pharmaceutical may not have as much appeal as someone who's been out of a classroom for 1-2 years doing bench research. Someone who's been doing human resources or administrative assistant work since graduating college may not have as strong of a chance of getting into a literature program.

My point is the qualifications that people in "real world jobs" have been acquiring are probably not useful for a grad program admission.

Or at least that's what I want to believe.

[Tinyboss]

My point is the qualifications that people in "real world jobs" have been acquiring are probably not useful for a grad program admission.

Or at least that's what I want to believe.

It's not only laid-off professionals who are swelling the applicant pools. It's also good students who under normal circumstances would be entering the job market, who instead are deciding to wait out the recession in grad school.

And the nationwide funding cuts are probably the most harmful thing of all. Someone upthread said that schools are looking for firm commitments before making offers, and I've seen that myself. I got an email from the grad director at XYZ University asking straight out whether they were a top choice or a backup. Looks to me like committees are very anxious not to tie up their funding with students who are likely to enroll elsewhere.

It's bad news all around. I wish all of us luck!

[Tritonetelephone]

I forgot to mention that my WL letter from USC specifically mentioned the economic crisis. The letter was very complimentary; they made it sound like they really wanted me but just couldn't afford me...

Many universities are currently affected by the economic crisis, and USC is no exception. Support for graduate fellowship packages will be diminished this year. We are making do with less and moving a little later than usual.

They clearly wanted to know if I'd still be interested without funding (from the context of the rest of the letter).

[Victory]

Are most of you guys applying Ph.D programs? Do you think the same holds true with regards to funding for MA programs?

[cardnav]

Are most of you guys applying Ph.D programs? Do you think the same holds true with regards to funding for MA programs?

I'm doing a Masters. Usually, PhDs get more funding anyway, so I think it will be even harder this year.

[Genghis]

This is for an academic degree, not a job, no matter how much like a job it may seem. Just because some middle-aged guy who's been working for GlaxoSmithKline for 15 years with a BS in Biology is applying to the same programs I am does not necessarily push me out of the running. I would venture a guess that many people who are turning to grad school as an escape from unemployment have not attended a class in years, and a good chunk of them have probably been working jobs that aren't relevant to the degree. If I were on an adcomm I would take time away from the classroom and relevancy of employment as some markers of who'd I'd look for. Someone who's been out of a classroom for 15 years doing quality control for a pharmaceutical may not have as much appeal as someone who's been out of a classroom for 1-2 years doing bench research. Someone who's been doing human resources or administrative assistant work since graduating college may not have as strong of a chance of getting into a literature program.

My point is the qualifications that people in "real world jobs" have been acquiring are probably not useful for a grad program admission.

Or at least that's what I want to believe.

I agree, and that's a very good point. However, I think the real issue is not the increased number of applicants (which someone posted elsewhere have not dramatically increased), but rather the fewer spots available due to limited funding. Someone on a subforum for my field, on good authority, noted that Harvard admissions were declining from 18 to 10 this year due to financial concerns. And that's a private school!I have been told by a prospective advisor at UCLA that, in my program, funding and thus admits are tighter this year than any other in his 20+ year career.

That's what's gonna end up fucking us in the ass, not secretaries applying for English PhDs.

[illinoisellie]

As for more undergrads applying to grad programs just because they want to wait out the recession - I think these candidates will be pretty easy to spot, either judging from their seeming lack of commitment or reasoning behind their choice of schools in the personal statement or in interviews.

And yeah, lack of funding is a big issue - not only are the grad schools cutting down on funding, but also its getting more difficult to get student loans. Without those you can't really make up for the difference if you don't get that assistantship/fellowship.

[pikatopia]

Are most of you guys applying Ph.D programs? Do you think the same holds true with regards to funding for MA programs?

I applied for MA programs this year...I was guaranteed a full fellowship for my first year only - second year is contingent on my academic performance.

[miratrix]

It may be hard this year, but I bet it'll be even worse next year. Funding cuts will probably be worse for the next academic year than this one, more people will be out of work, and applicants who didn't realize just how serious the economic crisis was until late fall will have more time to prepare.

I'm still grateful I'm not applying for jobs, though. I had to do that in October & November, when things were just starting to get worse, and if I get into just 1 out of 7 grad schools my acceptance rate will be much, much higher than it was for the jobs I applied for. My current workplace announced a vacancy recently and had 76 applications the next day.

[Dubya]

I agree with everyone stating that funding, admissions, etc. are all harder to come by. I'm sure it's mostly true, but there's no need to panic across the board. There are always anomalies and I applied to one of them. A professor at elite private university X said that unexpectedly large group of students finished their PhD last year and the department somehow managed to receive more funding than normal (must be from an outside source) and consequently will be admitting MORE students than normal. Obviously, this may not be the case for you, but then again, maybe it is!

[gadhelyn]

If ya'll have access to Nature, you may want to check out the cover story in the latest issue on when grants end. It follows the stories of 2 researches who had all of their grants removed because of decreases in funding. Kinda scary, hopefully they'll be over with by the time we're ready for our own grants.