Deciding Between Programs

[rek272]

Hi, all! I have a question on how to decide between programs. Here is my situation: I have been accepted to two programs, OSU and University of Texas El Paso for Latin American History PhD. Both have offered me the same stipend, health insurance, etc. Both have professors I would love to work with. I am now down to decided and having a bit of trouble. What else should I look for? Any opinions on the two schools? Really, any helpful comment is appreciated!

[TMP]

Meet me on Visitation Day!!! PM me if you want to discuss OSU in details.

[Ganymede18]

I know it's an enviable problem to have, but my partner is actually getting very stressed about the need to eventually turn down offers. She has four acceptances at this point, and everyone has been so friendly and each program a very strong fit in its way, it's tough to know that she'll have to turn down three of them (or more, since she's still waiting on a couple (non-history) that have yet to issue any decisions).

[Ganymede18]

She's even said it was almost easier to deal with mostly rejections where the options are narrowed for you and the decision pretty straightforward (which she's also experienced), than with multiple offers and subsequent wooing.

[CageFree]

Here are the things to consider, IMO, once you get past the important stuff like research/POI fit, placement opportunities, and funding.

Most of these can probably be answered during visits.

1. School culture. For example, if you're used to quarters, can you do semesters? Are you ok with being at a school where undergrads party, or do you want a quiet, nerdy place? How about sports?

2. Do you like the place? Beyond fit within the department, can you imagine yourself living there for the next 5-7 years? I didn't apply to UT-Austin because I have never wanted to visit, let alone live in, Texas (no offense to you Texans out there... but Texans generally don't like California either ). If you hate the cold, don't apply to Wisconsin or Minnesota.

3. Family/friends. Do you want to start anew, or remain closer to loved ones? Would you rather be in a place where flights in/out are cheaper, or a place that's relatively isolated?

4. Which place is more affordable? 20K in, say, Des Moines, is not the same as 20K in Los Angeles or New York.

Get a feel for the campus atmosphere, the surrounding area, and think about the "intangibles." All things being equal, in the end, you need to go where you'll be happiest.

Edited February 28, 2012 by teachgrad

[SapperDaddy]

where would you prefer to live? Where can you afford to live on the stipend they give you? Given those two choice, I know which one I would take.

[CageFree]

She's even said it was almost easier to deal with mostly rejections where the options are narrowed for you and the decision pretty straightforward (which she's also experienced), than with multiple offers and subsequent wooing.

I know the feeling. I turned down a very generous offer from a place I would have loved to go to and where everyone was very nice to me, and I felt like I got kicked in the gut, even though I'm headed toward a great program, in a place I absolutely love and where my fiance can find work.

[Safferz]

She's even said it was almost easier to deal with mostly rejections where the options are narrowed for you and the decision pretty straightforward (which she's also experienced), than with multiple offers and subsequent wooing.

I agree! I can't really offer useful advice to the OP since it's an issue I'm currently struggling with (narrowed down to two options at this stage, but visiting three), except to go with your gut. The visits make all the difference for getting a feel for the program and department as a whole beyond what appeals to you on paper. I'm just wrapping up my first visit, and I really had no idea I'd like this place as much as I do and things just clicked with the two POIs I had the opportunity to meet. I would also look at what's there for you outside of the history department, what resources are available at the school for you to draw on for your research and which school appeals to you for its intellectual community across the disciplines in your areas of interest. The city you'll be spending the next 5+ years of your life in is another important consideration.

[Riotbeard]

At the end of the day, its about where you will be happier and can reach your potential. Since I have never been to either, my superficial gut reaction is OSU because its name recognition in history is much bigger, but you need to go where YOU can produce the best work. So for the name only OSU.

[rek272]

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice! I think it is very difficult to turn down offers, especially when everyone is so nice and helpful. I will have to think it over awhile and I will keep everyone's suggestions in mind!!

[Nordicllama]

Which school has more comfortable chairs in its library(ies)?

[BH-history]

I know the feeling guys! A few weeks ago I was sure I was going to UT at Austin. The UCLA acceptance made me happy but I was not sad about declining it. But since Notre Dame sent me my acceptance, last monday, I started to feel the preasure about this process. Now I have no idea of what to do. Notre Dame is treating me really well, and they are showiong great interest on me. But Texas is better ranked and recognized in my field. Also the POI looks like a better fit. I am flying to Texas this weekend and on the 7th I will be in Indiana to get a feeling of both universities. I hope It helps me deciding!

What you guys think is more important how prestigious the institution is or how bad they want you?

[CageFree]

Prestige + fit + atmosphere.

[TMP]

Ask them about the job market and preparation for it. That should help you decide.

[Nordicllama]

Ask them about the job market and preparation for it. That should help you decide.

Fact. Placement should matter first and foremost. If a prof has 100% success in tenure-track placements, then you know what you got to do!

[BH-history]

That's true, placement rates should be considered in this case.

[Scare Quotes]

If you're really struggling with the decision, my advice, once you've made it, is this: live with it for a few days before you click any accept or decline buttons. I made my decision on the last possible day -- literally -- and then changed my mind that afternoon, to boot -- I do NOT recommend this approach. When I couldn't announce to people, "I'm going to [x]," without feeling like I needed to cry, I knew I had made the wrong choice. Had I done that a week earlier, everyone's day would have been a lot easier. Try on the decision and make sure it feels right before you really commit.

[CageFree]

If you're really struggling with the decision, my advice, once you've made it, is this: live with it for a few days before you click any accept or decline buttons. I made my decision on the last possible day -- literally -- and then changed my mind that afternoon, to boot -- I do NOT recommend this approach. When I couldn't announce to people, "I'm going to [x]," without feeling like I needed to cry, I knew I had made the wrong choice. Had I done that a week earlier, everyone's day would have been a lot easier. Try on the decision and make sure it feels right before you really commit.

This.

Give yourself the time to think about it carefully; don't rush your decision.

[Sigaba]

Fact. Placement should matter first and foremost. If a prof has 100% success in tenure-track placements, then you know what you got to do!

What if the POI has a 100% success rate in tenure track placements but less than 25% of his/her students ever get that far?

What I'm driving at here is that just as a historically significant decision is not made based upon one factor alone, the decision of where to go should not be made based upon one criterion alone.

I also recommend that one consider the possibility that just because you go to a school to work with a specific professor or in a specific field doesn't mean you won't change your mind down the line. (And such changes don't have to reflect souring relationships or bad chemistry. You could set out with an interest in A and find B to be more compelling.)

Edited March 25, 2012 by Sigaba

[genesisy]

Anyone have any advice for me?

What about choosing between 1. an elite History department and 2. an interdisciplinary department that will allow me to get the same coursework/training in History (an MA) in addition to really great training in theory, ethnic studies, etc...? Both schools have really great advisers for me, and supporting faculty members. Also I would live in both cities (happily). Cost of living is probably about equal as well...

In the context of the job market where so much is uncertain, do 20th century American historians really have much of a shot in this job market even if they're coming from an elite school? There will be hundreds of others like me nationally graduating with a PhD in History the year I finish. As opposed to a one-of-a-kind interdisciplinary program that only graduates about 4/year? Which is the better bet?

ugh, this is so tough :\

Edited March 26, 2012 by genesisy

[Riotbeard]

Genesisy: Go to Northwestern. That is the logical choice. I think that is the only honest advice anyone can give you from the outside, but you do need to make the decision for yourself.

[Sigaba]

Anyone have any advice for me?

First, ask yourself the question: do you want to be a historian? If the answer is an unequivocal "yes," your choice is clear.

If you're not sure, please do read on.

Compare your current decision-making matrix to the order in which laid out your interests in an earlier post of yours (quoted below).

Did any of you all apply to interdisciplinary PhD programs? And if so how are you ranking/comparing them to traditional History departments? For example, my interest are Amerasians, U.S. militarism, Asian American history, modern Korean History, Ethnic Studies, critical theory, critical mixed race studies, race, gender, transnationalism etc. I really like the idea of Cultural or Ethnic Studies and so far have been accepted to Irvine and Davis. I was accepted to Northwestern History as well. Really love the idea of working with my POI @ NU, as her book was really what first got me into the field of Asian American Studies. BUT their Asian American Studies program overall is very tiny compared to some of the California schools I have gotten into. I just don't even know (at this point) which would be better for me. I guess what I'm comparing is History versus interdisciplinary, small Asian American Studies program versus a large one with many relevant faculty members, ranking, and placement statistics. I think overall I would fit better in some of the Cultural Studies programs I got into - my research is more interdisciplinary and I feel that I will really thrive in an environment of Asian Americanists. But, at the same time, my POI @ NU and I share research interests, and it's an amazing program with a good history of placement post-PhD -- I would undoubtedly find my place there as well, although I'm not sure if I would grow as much. Any thoughts? :/

Sorry if this sounds silly, I'm still an undergraduate (graduating Spring 2012), so I don't have the experience of having been in a Masters program to gauge now what might be best for the next 5-7 years of my life (and then beyond that of course, the rest of my career).

Add to your decision making matrix potential dissertation topics and the types of sources you might use. Would you be closer to the most critical sources in California or in Illinois?

Also factor in the extended network of SMEs within driving distance in California compared to their counterparts in Illinois.

Additionally, unless you've already established a good relationship with the POI at Northwestern University, please do understand that relationships between a graduate student and his/her professors/role models can be very dynamic. (Have you looked at dissertations that Professor Yuh has supervised? Have you spoken with any of her ABDs? Do all you can to look before you leap.)

Finally, keep in mind that your list of interests is very long. The research interests and areas of specializations of American historians are increasingly specialized (some say overly so, but that's a different conversation). Sooner or later, you're going to have to make some hard choices. If you make some preliminary choices now, before you pick a program, you might have a clearer vision of which program is best suited to get you where you want to go.

HTH.

[CageFree]

Someone in my cohort transferred from an ethnic studies PhD (same school) to History as he saw that his interests aligned better with history.

I would suggest that you look at the availability of resources (including human) as a whole, rather than just one person to work with... especially if you're thinking of doing something interdisciplinary.

[Riotbeard]

Also, I don't know the diferences in funding, but because Northwestern is private, I would imagine it is much better. Don't underestimate how much of an impact, less service and better funding can have on both your happiness and time to exicute quailty work.