How to Tactfully Broach the Subject of the Need for More Funding?

[ANDS!]

Obviously there are going to be cases where the Kobe Bryants (eww) of the applicant world are being sought after and programs are willing to amend graduate packages to secure their attendance. But Sigaba makes a good point that while you have secured a victory in the short term, in the long term that faculty - even if they are totally wanting you there - will still eye you as "that guy who held out for more cash. . .even with an already generous offer" .

I'm glad that there are some programs like the above that stick to their guns and say "No this is what our students get - take it or leave it"; especially if the program is already competitive in and of itself.

[Tsujiru]

Sigh. Rising_star the way you describe your department is exactly how I feel things should be. I hesitate to tell this story because I'm afraid I might come off sounding like I begrudge my colleague her success, but I will because I think it is informative. I am one of just two women in my cohort, because our particular institution seems to disproportionately attract men. The two of us couldn't be more different, with her being loud and assertive and me more quiet. Yet, on the whole I'd say that we're well matched in terms of abilities and we were admitted to many of the same programs. However, I never asked about money and always received the standard package (which I was plenty happy with considering that between college and grad school I'd barely been scraping by working part-time in a high school and tutoring students every evening and weekends). She on the other hand always managed to get the institutions to offer her extra money in the form of putting her on special NIH training grants and the like. I never asked about money, so really I can't complain, but it does strike me as odd that even though I have out-performed my classmate since entering grad school (i.e. high marks in classes, passed quals on the first attempt when she did not) our funding structure was already set up from the start and short of me receiving an outside fellowship she will continue to out-earn me for the rest of grad school. Truth be told, I don't mind because I think it helps incentivize me to try to work harder and be competitive for fellowships, but it is worth considering how personality types do play into funding offers. As one of the early posters mentioned, timidity can sometimes result in lower offers.

But, if I had it all to do again I still don't think I would have asked for more money. As several posters have mentioned, as long as you will earn enough to live on, what is the point of haggling the department?

[thinkrSam]

But guys, figure this- a student really wants to get into university X; the university too really wants the student to attend. BUT the student can't afford the cost at all. Should just this prevent that student from attending that college? If the university can offer a little need-based help, what should be so wrong in asking for it? And people who label such a person with "the one with extra funds.." shouldn't really do that as it makes the student feel more miserable about his/her financial condition. There's a pressure to out-perform everyone as it is, since the student is offered extra help believing that he'd be great..

[dgh204]

I informed the private university I am most interested in attending (for an MFA), that I would happily work for additional funds. I showed them this by applying for a graduate hall director position. In the time since, the dept has offered an additional fellowship and a partial TA-ship (never before have they had 1st years as TAs). Plus, they put in a good word for me with the head of housing for the GHD job. It has been made clear through this process that they really want me, and if I do get the GHD position, I will not hesitate to accept the offer of admission, knowing that I will be going into a program that has been nothing but supportive.

[ANDS!]

But guys, figure this- a student really wants to get into university X; the university too really wants the student to attend. BUT the student can't afford the cost at all. Should just this prevent that student from attending that college? If the university can offer a little need-based help, what should be so wrong in asking for it? And people who label such a person with "the one with extra funds.." shouldn't really do that as it makes the student feel more miserable about his/her financial condition. There's a pressure to out-perform everyone as it is, since the student is offered extra help believing that he'd be great..

I'm sure it occurs, but generally departments aren't in the business of giving funding packages that put students below survivability line. Many students before them have made it work, so - as a grad advisor - I would sit back and ask "Why isn't this student able to make this funding package work?"

[R Deckard]

I agree with your overall point that negotiating funding is not likely to be all that fruitful, but I'm a little surprised you don't think there is extra funding for top applicants generally? It may just vary from institution to institution, but at least several of the graduate schools I've gotten into seem to have some kind of supplemental funds under a "Dean's Fellowship" (or named something to that effect). The way these appear to work is that particular applicants are nominated by the departments for the fellowship but the graduate school itself makes the decision and the award. I've been lucky enough to have a few of these thrown my way (some coming with the initial offer, some later) and from what I'm seeing, the award amounts to an extra few thousand dollars per year and the language accompanying the letters is way over-the-top in flattery. I think it's really hard to know if you'll be in a position to be nominated for one of these, but it's not out of the question for something like this to come the way of a top applicant who hasn't made up their mind yet.

I would agree.

One school revised my funding and offered me an extra $12k fellowship upon finding out that another school had offered me more $ than them.

[sareth]

I would agree.

One school revised my funding and offered me an extra $12k fellowship upon finding out that another school had offered me more $ than them.

Same here. I was not attempting to negotiate, but I was asked about my other offers during a post-acceptance interview. I said (truthfully) that I felt the program I was visiting was a better fit, but that I had a much larger financial offer elsewhere. I mentioned that the ~$8k difference was a factor even though I was trying very hard not to let money sway my decision. I received a written offer for a significant ($10k) additional fellowship the same day.

[mallow]

I really appreciate this thread and have a question. I was made an offer in March for a PhD and was told over the phone that I would have three years of funding. When I got the official letter (on April 12) I saw that the stipend is for 3 years (with tuition remission) but is only valid when the student is enrolled full-time. Since I have prior graduate degrees, I only have two years of coursework so only two years of stipend and no guaranteed funding after that. I have a short extension on the April 15th deadline and am wondering if I should try to negotiate this? Two years of funding makes me nervous, since people take five years on average to finish.

[dntw8up]

With prior graduate degrees it seems odd that it would still take you five years to finish, but in any case, full-time enrollment does not mean taking classes full-time; you can register for research units to meet the full-time requirement.

[mallow]

This university does not allow research units to count for courses as far as I understand it. The scholarship letter states: "You must maintain full-time status (at least 12 credits per semester) and make satisfactory academic progress toward your degree to remain eligible for a stipend." I checked with the admissions counselor when I got the letter and was told I had to be registered as a full-time student to get the stipend.

[poeteer]

re: the OP, I think that it's fine to "negotiate" with your first choice if they have offered you little to no funding, or their lowest funding package that's fine but not great (and you have one on the table from your #2 choice that is great in comparison, like, maybe at least $5K more a year for your stipend and/or a lower teaching load). However, if they've already offered you departmental top-off funding and/or a reduced teaching load -- better funding than some of your potential peers received, even if it doesn't match your better offer from another school -- I wouldn't push it. They've already reached out to give you something special; if you're so concerned with extra $, just go to the school that offered you more. As for the funding from the grad school itself, e.g. a Dean's Fellowship, they can't do anything about that.

Edited April 18, 2012 by poeteer

[Eigen]

Mallow:

At many schools, there's a non-research based course called "Dissertation Research". Once you complete all requirements but the dissertation and defense, you register for that- it usually confers full time status at reduced tuition, and minimial fees. This isn't the same as just a research unit, and at our school is even a 0 credit course. It just holds you as registered full time, working on your dissertation (and the accompanying research).

Ask, but my guess is that your school has something similar.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Eigen

[mallow]

Thanks Eigen. I will check.

[TMP]

So, while it's nice to negotiate and whatever else, be prepared for it not to matter at all in some cases. And, be prepared to have to make a decision between more money and better fit or more money and better POI. In the end, I turned down offers that paid more and required less work because it's more about the advisor than anything else. The money is just a way to get yourself sidetracked from that.

have to say.. THIS. That was the choice I made. I was seriously sidetracked after my lovely visit to that school with more $ for about a week, even after I visited my top choice. It wasn't until my adviser, a sharp-shooter, asked me, "You already have two fantastic packages. Enough. All things equal, whom do you really want to work with?" Suddenly that was an easy answer. I do think my "better POI" is really worth giving up that other opportunity.

Something to consider in the future when negotiating. The POI has the greatest stake in this and it's worth communicating to that person directly. I had negotiated with her because I really wanted to work with her and she knew she and the program were better fit for me. She knew that the kind of fellowship I received from the other school could be quite difficult to turn down (in fact, I think I was the first one to say no!) so she had to work pretty darn hard to match it.

[Sigaba]

But guys, figure this- a student really wants to get into university X; the university too really wants the student to attend. BUT the student can't afford the cost at all. Should just this prevent that student from attending that college? If the university can offer a little need-based help, what should be so wrong in asking for it? And people who label such a person with "the one with extra funds.." shouldn't really do that as it makes the student feel more miserable about his/her financial condition. There's a pressure to out-perform everyone as it is, since the student is offered extra help believing that he'd be great..

For me, the issue isn't about asking for funds that one legitimately needs from a position of respect, but attempting to leverage one institution's offer against another school's offer as an act of self gratification.

To me, the differences between what one needs and what one wants are clear.

[MyLadyDisdain]

As someone who was fortunate enough to make this leverage factor work, I highly recommend the one thing which might be forgotten in this process: be genuine!

Tell them why you love their program, and demonstrate your willingness to apply yourself to any scholarship/internship/funding opportunity they might have for you. Offer to work in the department, or any other recommended employment opportunities.

If you can't afford to take on more debt (and I couldn't), be upfront but proactive and polite. Don't threaten, don't beg, and don't be afraid to call and connect with the admissions team. A well cultivated connection with the staff who will be supporting you through your program is absolutely key to successfully completing your degree.

Show that you aren't just another number and, hopefully, they will lower your numbers.

Good luck!

~MLD