Fall 2013 Applicants?

[oseirus]

Thanks. I am pretty sure I am "going the academia route," at least as my first choice. But given the considerable risk of that not working out, I think it makes a lot of sense to consider lay opinion of the degree as well...not that I have high hopes many employers would consider someone who spent seven years cooped up doing a history degree anywhere very competitive.

Well then if academia is your route of destination ... then I say look to program presgtige rather than overall school name recognition

[oseirus]

Thanks. I am pretty sure I am "going the academia route," at least as my first choice. But given the considerable risk of that not working out, I think it makes a lot of sense to consider lay opinion of the degree as well...not that I have high hopes many employers would consider someone who spent seven years cooped up doing a history degree anywhere very competitive.

Well then if academia is your route of destination ... then I say look to program presgtige rather than overall school name recognition

[theregalrenegade]

What if you are unsure about the route you will take? Or maybe not "unsure" but "open to opportunities" that may come up in your field of study.

I would love to go the academia route, but I also wouldn't turn down opportunities to work/research with say...The National Trust or other conservation-minded groups.

I would assume this would be an additional criteria in choosing programs as well.

[oseirus]

What if you are unsure about the route you will take? Or maybe not "unsure" but "open to opportunities" that may come up in your field of study.

I would love to go the academia route, but I also wouldn't turn down opportunities to work/research with say...The National Trust or other conservation-minded groups.

I would assume this would be an additional criteria in choosing programs as well.

Well that my an added wrinkle b/c you could be working for former academics & you would think they at least have contacts who could validate the worthiness of your program, no?

[Sigaba]

What if you are unsure about the route you will take? Or maybe not "unsure" but "open to opportunities" that may come up in your field of study.

I would love to go the academia route, but I also wouldn't turn down opportunities to work/research with say...The National Trust or other conservation-minded groups.

I would assume this would be an additional criteria in choosing programs as well.

In your case, I recommend that you look at institutions at which you can acquire expertise in domains of knowledge that will make you a competitive applicant and productive team member in industries outside of the Ivory Tower.

Also, as you're already earning a M.A., there might be an expectation--realistic or not, fair or not--that you'll have a defined set of interests. If you've not reached that point, you might do well by using your SoP to discuss an ongoing process of intellectual growth.

Finally, I urge you to spend more time exploring your strengths as a person and as a historian and less time on your perceived weaknesses/shortcomings. We are all works in progress. Some members of this BB are farther along the path than they realize. This group includes you.

[oseirus]

Smart crowd ..... enjoy your wkds!

[annieca]

I feel like working in museums is way more focused on location than name recognition. One dream job would be working at the Holocaust Museum - which has almost no Ivy graduates. In fact, most of its employees are from DC schools - CUA, Maryland-College Park, Georgetown, GWU... maybe not all museums are like this, but that's what I've discovered about the Holocaust Museum.

[oseirus]

I feel like working in museums is way more focused on location than name recognition. One dream job would be working at the Holocaust Museum - which has almost no Ivy graduates. In fact, most of its employees are from DC schools - CUA, Maryland-College Park, Georgetown, GWU... maybe not all museums are like this, but that's what I've discovered about the Holocaust Museum.

so you're saying there's an anti-Ivy bias?

[runaway]

I feel like working in museums is way more focused on location than name recognition. One dream job would be working at the Holocaust Museum - which has almost no Ivy graduates. In fact, most of its employees are from DC schools - CUA, Maryland-College Park, Georgetown, GWU... maybe not all museums are like this, but that's what I've discovered about the Holocaust Museum.

Some of this might have to do with them often hiring previous interns. Look at the people doing research as fellows and you'll see some very different names.

It also definitely depends on the museum, although the schools that are the equivalent of 'ivies' might change based on the job you're looking at and the museum. Especially in New York, names like Bard and Pratt suddenly get you very far.

[annieca]

@runaway - That's quite possible. The website I got the information from is LinkedIn and it doesn't delineate by jobs and what school.

Here's the link if anyone wants to take a gander: http://www.linkedin.com/company/united-states-holocaust-memorial-museum/statistics

I wouldn't say that there is an anti-Ivy bias, but like runaway got it - it definitely depends on the museum and that they probably hire previous interns.

[oseirus]

I wouldn't say that there is an anti-Ivy bias, but like runaway got it - it definitely depends on the museum and that they probably hire previous interns.

darn ... I got all excited that there was a possible place that ivies weren't welcomed

[runaway]

@runaway - That's quite possible. The website I got the information from is LinkedIn and it doesn't delineate by jobs and what school.

Here's the link if anyone wants to take a gander: http://www.linkedin....seum/statistics

I wouldn't say that there is an anti-Ivy bias, but like runaway got it - it definitely depends on the museum and that they probably hire previous interns.

oh wow, I didn't know LinkedIn could do that! very cool.

[annieca]

@Oserius - and here I thought you were saying that Ivy-league was the best and how dare I criticize it? My sarcasm detector might be off a bit.

[TMP]

What are the aspects that I should be looking for to determine a department's culture? Size of cohort, etc.?

You don't really *know* the department culture until you've actually visited. You can have the faculty and graduate students say all they want but it ultimately comes down to YOU feeling comfortable in the department. Some people are happy wearing polos and boat shoes, others cringed at that idea.

I feel like working in museums is way more focused on location than name recognition. One dream job would be working at the Holocaust Museum - which has almost no Ivy graduates. In fact, most of its employees are from DC schools - CUA, Maryland-College Park, Georgetown, GWU... maybe not all museums are like this, but that's what I've discovered about the Holocaust Museum.

If you are talking about the US Holocaust Museum, you have to look very closely. The Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies is truly a separate entity that is very likely dependent on staff receiving PhDs from top notch programs and advisers (think big names like Christopher Browning at UNC) and former Center fellows. Lok at the Center Staff list and google the researchers and historians. The rest of the museum is likely to have staff who have received degrees in the local area as networking helps you get a job there. If you are not interested in being part of the CAHS, then it doesn't matter where you get your degrees as long as you're networking with the right people at right places like AAM or in Holocaust Studies programs.

Some of this might have to do with them often hiring previous interns. Look at the people doing research as fellows and you'll see some very different names.

It also definitely depends on the museum, although the schools that are the equivalent of 'ivies' might change based on the job you're looking at and the museum. Especially in New York, names like Bard and Pratt suddenly get you very far.

I'll second this, especially for public history.

[oseirus]

@Oserius - and here I thought you were saying that Ivy-league was the best and how dare I criticize it? My sarcasm detector might be off a bit.

on the contrary, I've gone into the anti-Ivy camp since I came on this site ... seemed to be what all the other cool kids were doing

[runaway]

If you are talking about the US Holocaust Museum, you have to look very closely. The Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies is truly a separate entity that is very likely dependent on staff receiving PhDs from top notch programs and advisers (think big names like Christopher Browning at UNC) and former Center fellows.

I probably should have been clearer since that's what I meant by 'doing research as fellows'-- but since we gave essentially the same answer it's reassuring to myself that I'm not giving bad advice

[annieca]

I've been thinking about adding another language to my repetoire and I can't decide which. I'm a social historian who focuses on the nationalism movements at the end of the Cold War in Eastern Europe (specific, I know). I already know German and a little Spanish (I used to be fluent but I'm losing it as I don't use it.) I was thinking, since I love Eastern Europe it might be useful to do another Eastern European language. So I was thinking:

- Czech

- Romanian

- Hungarian

I would do Russian only as a last resort. For some reason, Russian freaks me out.

Any suggestions of the three? Very few of my schools offer Russian and even fewer offer the other three. However, I feel like knowing another Eastern European language would be extremely helpful so I could figure out how to learn the language without taking classes.

Edited April 9, 2012 by annieca

[runaway]

Czech! I'm in Prague right now, and was amazed at how helpful my Polish was. Czech will definitely open you up to learning Polish and Russian more easily in the future. Hungarian is not linguistically related to any other language in the region, so it might not be the best first language to tackle. Romanian would probably be the easiest for you, though.

[TMP]

I've been thinking about adding another language to my repetoire and I can't decide which. I'm a social historian who focuses on the nationalism movements at the end of the Cold War in Eastern Europe (specific, I know). I already know German and a little Spanish (I used to be fluent but I'm losing it as I don't use it.) I was thinking, since I love Eastern Europe it might be useful to do another Eastern European language. So I was thinking:

- Czech

- Romanian

- Hungarian

I would do Russian only as a last resort. For some reason, Russian freaks me out.

Any suggestions of the three? Very few of my schools offer Russian and even fewer offer the other three. However, I feel like knowing another Eastern European language would be extremely helpful so I could figure out how to learn the language without taking classes.

If those schools don't offer those kind of language support including a strong Center for Russian and Eastern European Studies, then do not go there until you have achieve high level of proficiency yourself. You really need those FLAS (Foreign Language Area Studies) fellowships or grants from those centers to help you pay for language training during the academic year (in lieu of TA-ship or TA-ship) and summer. Programs would be reluctant to take an applicant if they do not have the resources to help that person achieve the level of proficiency needed for dissertation research. It is not say that your particular POIs will not accept you but I am merely suggesting in thinking about the timeline of your PhD program. There is a reason why non-Americanists take 2-3 years longer than Americanists. If your adviser is a good one, s/he will want you to finish ASAP, and in order to do that, you need lots of language support in your early years so you are ready to jump in your dissertation research.

Also, choose the language of the country that you are most interested in (and have been for a while). Do not choose based on what looks most interesting or easiest (Hungarian is the most difficult if all that you're listing, BTW. Just ask the State Department). Your dissertation's quality and sources will ultimately be shaped by your language proficiency.

[annieca]

First off, thanks for the help, @ticklemepink!

I'm a future MA/MLIS student. No plans for PhD in my future right now.

Also, I *don't* know what country I'm most interested in. I'm going to write my Capstone on the Velvet Revolution and my favorite paper I've written so far has been on the East Germany identity crisis. While I haven't written a paper on it, I also love the idea of studying Romania. As you can tell, I'm an Eastern European gal. I think Romanian would be the best in terms of availability of non-English sources. My undergrad adviser said I would be able to find many more primary sources in English for Czech history than Romanian.

I do know it's possible to take a foreign language in grad school without funding for it. I know many a person that are doing that just now. Whether or not you could get funding to go to the country is another issue.

Two of my schools - UNC and Indiana-Bloomington, have Eastern European Centers that actually Czech, Hungarian or Romanian. However, I'm wondering if it's necessary for me even to take classes or just kind of immerse myself in it, the way I did Welsh when studying a Welsh topic a few years back.

[theregalrenegade]

I'm wondering if it's necessary for me even to take classes or just kind of immerse myself in it, the way I did Welsh when studying a Welsh topic a few years back.

Ooh, I'm interested in Welsh. Can you explain how you immersed yourself in it? Language tapes? TV shows? Videos? Books? Or did you go there?

[annieca]

@theregalrenegade -

My Historiography paper was on the Welsh Nationalism movement of the 1880s and luckily, my university has a quite large Welsh collection. I knew maybe one word in Welsh before I started the paper - Cymru and my topic was Cymru Fydd which I figured out meant Wales of the Future. From there, it was just words that kept popping up and I would look them up.

Welsh is actually super, duper hard to learn. Even the Welsh have trouble with it. I hope to pick some up more when I study at the University of Wales - Aber this fall and be able to actually pronounce it.

^^ Sorry, if that wasn't very precise/helpful. I have heard that BBC Wales is pretty helpful as well, if you can get over the IP Address issue.

[theregalrenegade]

@theregalrenegade -

My Historiography paper was on the Welsh Nationalism movement of the 1880s and luckily, my university has a quite large Welsh collection. I knew maybe one word in Welsh before I started the paper - Cymru and my topic was Cymru Fydd which I figured out meant Wales of the Future. From there, it was just words that kept popping up and I would look them up.

Welsh is actually super, duper hard to learn. Even the Welsh have trouble with it. I hope to pick some up more when I study at the University of Wales - Aber this fall and be able to actually pronounce it.

^^ Sorry, if that wasn't very precise/helpful. I have heard that BBC Wales is pretty helpful as well, if you can get over the IP Address issue.

Sounds like a fascinating paper. I found some amusing videos on BBC Wales that I plan to return to one day soon.

Congrats on your fall plans in Wales. I'm jealous! PM sometime, I'd love to hear how it all goes.

[hbeels]

I'm already thinking about it, for sure!

Finishing up my undergrad right now and taking a year off--but (hopefully) enrolling Fall 2013.

Right now I'm trying to decide if I want to dive right into a PhD program, or if I want to start somewhere smaller that just has an MA program.

Any insights or suggestions?

[annieca]

@hbeels -

First off, take out the "hopefully" part. Something I've been told is this: If you doubt that you'll get in/get funding you won't. It will show in your application, interviews, etc. You have to have the extreme confidence that says "Yeah, I'm awesome. You'd be an idiot not to take me." That being said, don't get cocky. There is a fine line and one all of us have to walk.

As for the MA/PhD dilemma it really is a personal one. PhD's have more funding availability, obviously. However, you have to do what you're ready for. Some people aren't ready to go straight from MA to PhD. Some people need to take some time after their Masters to decide if the PhD is really right for you. Yet, you do always have the option of going into a PhD program, deciding it's not for you and dropping to just a Masters. My sister did that and while there was some issues to be worked out with funding, she is much more happy doing that. Some people find that they *hate* teaching and so a PhD will do nothing for them except make them over-qualified for whatever job they want outside of academia.

What do you want to do with your PhD? Teach? Research? Live on a beach and pontificate?