Fall 2013 English Lit Applicants

[ComeBackZinc]

Part of the problem is that the conventional wisdom, which I broadly agree with, points in a vague direction. What I mean is that I absolutely assert the importance of the SOP and writing sample, and particularly how they contribute to the "fit" chimera. The problem is that how that operates, what is being judged and to what end, is unknowable from the outside. Absolutely, devote yourself to your writing sample and your SOP. Invest effort in them and (especially) read other people's online and solicit critique of your own. But bear in mind that how those pieces of writing determine your worth or fit depends on individual departments, schools, faculty, and even individual applicants.

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

Agreed. Right now I'm mostly stressed over not having a writing sample. Since I'm completing my undergrad and so I'm in my junior year right now, I really haven't had to write any papers &--#62;8 pages. I think that one class I'm taking right now might start me off on the right foot as far as the WS goes, but looking at those 15-20 page requirements is daunting. And it's definitely going to be a challenge to do any of this stuff when fall semester rolls around and I have to focus on finishing out the last year of my degree. I'm looking forward to the summer as the time when I'll get most of this stuff done.

For my writing sample, I expanded a paper I wrote in the spring semester into a 20 page, much better paper over the summer. The professor of the class I wrote it for is one my my mentors, and he was happy to communicate with me via email the whole summer to help me whip it into shape! Write some really kick-ass papers this year, then worry about expanding them into writing sample quality later on. Sometimes the stress of knowing you have to create a writing sample can be a roadblock!

I echo the sentiments of this years applicants--the GRE is a ridiculous, and try to do your best on it, but don't freak out over it. Definitely don't spend more time on it than your writing sample or SOP.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Fiona Thunderpaws

[Gauche]

I'm also applying for the fall, and I see many people advising others not to worry too much about the GREs, but I feel like it will be the most challenging section of the application process for me. I took a practice GRE recently and received abysmal scores, and I'm trying to prepare for the real test in August. Does anyone know if certain programs look over the GRE scores first and weed out the majority of the applications accordingly? I just don't want to apply to certain programs if my whole application isn't reviewed because my scores are too low. If application fees didn't cost so much, I wouldn't worry about it, but sadly I have to.

[jma310]

To all those worried about having a writing sample of sufficient length: ask your professors to work with you. For example, one person here said a course they're taking requires 2 7 pg papers. I'd approach the professor, explain your graduate school goals and what you'd like to get out of the course. In my experience professors are willing to help you write the paper you need for the stage of your career as a student. Maybe he/she will work with you on one longer paper rather than 2 short.

[ComeBackZinc]

I'm also applying for the fall, and I see many people advising others not to worry too much about the GREs, but I feel like it will be the most challenging section of the application process for me. I took a practice GRE recently and received abysmal scores, and I'm trying to prepare for the real test in August. Does anyone know if certain programs look over the GRE scores first and weed out the majority of the applications accordingly? I just don't want to apply to certain programs if my whole application isn't reviewed because my scores are too low. If application fees didn't cost so much, I wouldn't worry about it, but sadly I have to.

Some programs are constrained by their universities or graduate schools, in that they have to reject anybody under a certain cutoff. But this situation is rare, and this board is littered with people who have had (relatively) poor GREs and got into elite programs.

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

One easy way to study without devoting hours of time to the books is to keep a running list of words you're not 100% sure of from your readings. When I read for class, I kept a little notebook next to me and scrawled them down in there, then later on I went back and looked them up in a dictionary. Sometimes if I were reading in front of my computer, I would just do it right there and have the added benefit of seeing the word in context.

As Lit people, we have a huge advantage over other people taking the GRE because deciphering stuff through context is what we do.

Also, I would say the verbal part of the GRE is the most important aspect (in light of the little importance GREs have anyway) so I would make that the focus of your studies.

When you take it too, it will ask you if you want the scores sent to 4 schools for free, and I would definitely take ETS up on that too because those scores are EXPENSIVE to send. I spent another $100+ dollars sending the stupid scores to schools. ETS is ridiculous. I hate them.

[Stately Plump]

I'm also applying for the fall, and I see many people advising others not to worry too much about the GREs, but I feel like it will be the most challenging section of the application process for me. I took a practice GRE recently and received abysmal scores, and I'm trying to prepare for the real test in August. Does anyone know if certain programs look over the GRE scores first and weed out the majority of the applications accordingly? I just don't want to apply to certain programs if my whole application isn't reviewed because my scores are too low. If application fees didn't cost so much, I wouldn't worry about it, but sadly I have to.

From what I've seen, there aren't a whole of schools that openly report rejecting students based on GRE scores. Most will say something like "we have no fixed cut-offs, but most successful applicants score above X percentile."

In my experience, they are being completely honest when they say that. I'm sure some programs say that and then dump applicants with low GRE scores, but I also truly believe that other schools look at the entire file; if they are impressed with your writing sample and SOP and think you are a good fit, they won't reject you just because of your GRE scores.

The first time I took the GRE, I scored a 570 in the verbal and 4.5 in the writing. I retook it and did much better, but those initial lousy scores didn't hold me back. I did terribly on the subject test; I'm in the 40% percentile or something absurd like that. I currently have four schools to choose from and am on the wait-list at another.

EDIT to add: I was scoring in the 650-670 range on the practice tests I took (I think I took three). I was devastated when I got a 570. The second time, I was scoring in the 570-590 on the practice tests (I think I took two) and ended up doing much better. So I have some doubts about the practice tests.

Also, the second time I took it I didn't study that much before and ended up doing much better. I found that, the first time, I actually OVER studied, and it freaked me out psychologically. I was so nervous I couldn't sleep the night before, and I was sooo stressed during the whole test. The second time, I barely studied at all, outside the practice tests, and was completely nonchalant about it. I wasn't expecting to do well, and was planning on just getting it done with and moving on. I found that this attitude really helped by ability to approach the test, and I ended up scoring well on it. Just food for thought

Edited March 28, 2012 by Stately Plump

[DorindaAfterThyrsis]

I wanted to pop in and echo what a number of other people have said about the GRE: do what you can to get your best possible score, but when it comes down to matters of prioritizing (i.e. should I spend my two free hours tonight studying for the GRE, or should I use those two hours to work on a paper for class that will contribute to my GPA and might eventually inform my SOP or writing sample), the GRE should, in my opinion, always be the lowest priority.

Anecdata: Applying to grad school was a VERY last minute decision for me (I hadn't seriously considered it until November of my app cycle year), and I didn't even know the GRE existed, let alone that it was something that required preparation. I signed up for a test three days before I took it, and didn't do any studying or prep outside of glancing at the sample questions available on the website. I was completely unstressed about the test, which I think is the reason I ended up doing well. I simply had no time to psyche myself out. Standardized tests aren't really a big thing in Canada, so I was essentially ignorant of the GRE being considered a "big deal". In my case, this ignorance (rather than my own intelligence or level of preparedness) is probably responsible for my score.

As for the writing sample, I was in the same boat as the person who noted their lack of lengthy papers. One of my profs gave me the following advice, which I think is invaluable: The length guidelines are, in fact, just guidelines. AdComms are much more concerned about people sending in things that are too long, rather than "too short" (simply because of the amount of time it takes to go through 4 billion writing samples). Writing more does not equal writing better, and writing a long paper does not equate to writing a good paper. Your writing sample should be the length that it takes to succinctly state and adequately develop your argument, and not a word longer. If that happens to fall within the 15-20p guideline, great. If it happens to be 12 pages (like mine was) that's also great (and adcomms will secretly bless you for cutting down their work load ) They are (among other things) looking at your ability to engage with a topic in a sustained manner, not at your ability to adhere to word counts. My suggestion (and the path that I followed, albeit in an accelerated manner) is to take your best piece of writing from your existing work (preferably one that aligns with the research interests your will be outlining in your SOP), and revise/expand that piece as necessary (NOT simply to make it longer, but to develop your argument and refine your reading into a more concise and sparkling state). If possible, ask the prof who originally graded the paper to look over and comment on your new revision. I didn't have time to do this (because I was nuts and put my entire package together in less than a month (NOT RECOMMENDED), so I don't know from experience, but I imagine offering cookies might help busy/reluctant profs to get on board with this step Once you get your profs feedback, revise the paper again. Repeat this process as necessary (involving other profs/grad students/peers as readers if possible) until your sample is diamond sharp and without a single word of filler. At this point, don't give a second thought to such silly things as page count. If the writing is good enough, it doesn't matter.

A crisp but officially too short sample is exponentially more valuable than a sample of "correct" length that has grown slack and droopy with extraneous and unnecessary wordiness.

(This response is clearly an example of the latter )

[Two Espressos]

This topic has veered into talking about the GRE (which I don't know much about but will comment upon below), but I want to add that I will be applying to MA and PhD programs in English this fall. At this point, I'm not very stressed about this whole process. While I want nothing more than to be accepted to a respectable PhD program, I'm content with doing other things. I'm quite satisfied with my undergrad experience so far, and I wouldn't mind working for a year if my application season goes to hell. I'm sure I'll be *very* stressed about this during the month or so before and after application deadlines, though...

Anyways, my biggest concern--and it's a perpetual one, as my posts over the year evince-- is that I'm going to have a hard time selling my interests to a committee. I've yet to find a department that I feel fits me like a glove. I guess that could be a good thing (I'll stand out more then?), but I'm not so sure...

As for the GRE, I know that I won't study for it as much as I probably should. I'm going to play around with some vocabulary flash cards and have my computer science/math major friend help me prepare for the quantitative section, but that's about it. The GRE doesn't intimidate me. I concur with the others: it's the least important part of one's application. Bombing it probably isn't a good idea though.

[vosemdesyatvosem]

My own thoughts on the GRE, since it seems to be a matter of such concern: consider investing in a kindle or some other sort of e-reader. I've been devouring books on my kindle for over a year now and it's got a Webster's Dictionary built into it, so it's ridiculously easy to look up words you don't know or (and this is by far the more valuable function, I think) clarify definitions on words that you understand implicitly but could never give really clear, precise definitions for.

Anyway, I'm also applying to English PhD programs, most likely for fall of 2013. I graduated in '11 and I'm planning on working for another year before, hopefully, returning to the academy. I guess I'm pretty thankful that I wrote a thesis paper, since I have a fairly long paper to work with in a topic that I hope to pursue as a graduate student. Right now, I'm trying to narrow down my interests and figure out exactly what I want to study and where, in the hopes of having a good statement of purpose.

[veniente]

Although we may all be rightfully sceptical of the GREs, for a plethora of reasons, it seems that one disparages or neglects them at their peril. Like, you know they're a component - yes, one among others - in your application, and thus carry some weight, so why not spend time ensuring you do really well at them (of course, as others note, not at the expense of your SOP, your writing sample, and your GPA), even resitting them if necessary. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if a school is asking for the subject test, especially given many of the schools that do ask, wouldn't you want to do well at it?

As others state, 'bad' GREs have the potential of keeping you out of places, which should be enough of an incentive to make you want to achieve really competitive scores, something that is fairly doable (I speak not from experience) if you decide that the GREs have significance (which they surely do when they're a compulsory requirement, and when departments need to whittle down 750 applicants). Some places even specify a minimum GRE score, such as, Columbia, who want their U.S. applicants to be achieving at least in the 96th% for verb., Duke [English], who want a minimum of 1200 (in the old score format) verb./quant. combined, and Berkeley, who implicitly ask you to consider achieving a 97% verb., in keeping with their average. Whether adcomms always keep to these benchmarks is another matter, but, I would suggest, one which shouldn't really be the basis for your verdict that 'GREs don't matter'. Of course there are always going to be those stories of people getting accepted to Stanford, or Princeton, or wherever with a 12% quant., or with a 84% verb., or with a 3.5 analy., or with a 50% sub., but as far as I can tell these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

Like Stately, I scored a 570 on verb and 4.5 for writing. I also got - please laugh, I did - a 380 on quant. I resat the thing (did the revised one), got better scores (but not good ones) on everything but analy, Combined with my mediocre sub. of 570, and despite other shit like scholarships, TAing experience, 4.0 GPA equivalent, solid SOPs & writing sample, I feel nearly certain that my average GREs performances, how shall I put it, Contributed Negatively to my Application, perhaps even keeping me out of places.

[turtlepower]

Two Espressos:

We share some similar interests. I recently applied to a handful of programs (all unranked), and I've had pretty good success this season. I think that "fit" is something to be concerned about, for sure, but the beautiful thing about epistemology and materiality/corporeal ethics is that they're completely transdisciplinary. You can tailor your SOP to align with any POI's research, which really takes some of the pressure off. You really won't be "selling." You'll be showing your passion! The important thing, I think, is to demonstrate why/how these interests merit consideration.

[thestage]

For those worried about the lack of a proper writing sample: even if you will be busy in the fall with your undergraduate work, you have an entire summer between now and then to work (after an unmitigated failure of an application season, I will be joining you). If you can't write a good paper in that time frame, you probably aren't ready anyway. Length is not even particularly a factor; you can write a twenty page paper in a week or less. If you haven't done that yet, you certainly will at some point in the future. What matters for <i>this</i> paper is the time spent researching and thinking and organizing, which will absolutely dwarf the time spent writing to the point where the latter interval will seem trivial.

Edited March 29, 2012 by thestage

[Rupert Pupkin]

For those worried about the lack of a proper writing sample: even if you will be busy in the fall with your undergraduate work, you have an entire summer between now and then to work (after an unmitigated failure of an application season, I will be joining you). If you can't write a good paper in that time frame, you probably aren't ready anyway. Length is not even particularly a factor; you can write a twenty page paper in a week or less. If you haven't done that yet, you certainly will at some point in the future. What matters for <i>this</i> paper is the time spent researching and thinking and organizing, which will absolutely dwarf the time spent writing to the point where the latter interval will seem trivial.

This.

I spent the summer prior to the application cycle writing my sample from scratch. Focusing more on research/thinking/organization than length, I spent a month reading every single piece of relevant scholarship that I could find, a month writing my paper, and a month revising. I ended up having a paper that easily fit the 15-20 page requirements I was facing, however, the 12-13 page paper I ended up with after revision was much stronger.

[bfat]

I'm so glad someone opened a thread for fall 2013. I've been working on building a (fully packed now) two-inch binder with all my research on schools and prep for this application season for the past two years, lol.

So far I've got very rough drafts of my materials, and I plan to polish them all over the summer. I took the regular GRE at the beginning of March and totally tanked it because of a medical condition (hypoglycemic attack right at the beginning of the first verbal section--not allowed to take a break for my glucose/snacks), so I'll be taking it again in June. That was a fun $200 down the toilet because I couldn't bring a snickers bar in with me.

I'll also be working on my master's thesis in the fall (but I'll have until spring to complete it, so not too much pressure). As for the writing sample--I'm lucky to be in an MA program that requires a 25-30 page paper for every seminar in the program, so I should have a lot to work with in choosing that/whittling it down/revising my sample. I've been preparing for a while, but of course, I'm still terrified of the application process. And the GRE subject. It literally gives me nightmares, and I don't have to take it for another 7 months...

Oh, and I'm also having a baby in August. This, of course, will have the biggest impact on my being able to work on my apps in the fall, which is why I plan to finish as much as I can over the summer. Heh.

[rems]

As far as the GRE is concerned, one of my professors who has been on numerous ad coms told me that most schools have a three tiered acceptance procedure: 1. They look at your numbers -- AKA GPA and GRE. If they don't meet a certain criteria (this criteria varies by school that's why this sucks) then they don't bother with your SOP or WS. 2. If you pass the "numbers test" then they read your SOP, WS, and LOR's. 3. If they like what they see, you move on to point three which is like the last 20 people who get whittled down to the final however-many.

SO, I was told (and I'm not an expert here) that GRE's do count to a certain degree. It's been said before but bares repeating: They can't get you in, but they can keep you out.

Some schools say on their website that they look at your entire application before the first cuts, but some def will cut you early if you don't compete with others based on your "numbers."

I'm about to graduate with my M.A. and I'll be applying with you guys for 2013 (taking the year off), but I was originally planning on applying for this year, so I've now taken the gen GRE twice and the sub once. I have done awfully on both, but I'm definitely planning a retake.

From someone who has failed twice at this test, here's my new game plan and hopefully it might some others as well:

Memorize the format of the verbal questions in the guide books, and figure out how they "work." We're all English majors here -- we know how to do this! I have tried so far to just go in unprepared (1st time), and I have tried minor studying (2nd time). As an English major, I ignorantly assumed that i could answer verbal questions no problems. They're harder than they look, and I'm continually jealous of anyone who is just "good" at taking tests because I am not -- hence, the English degree (I haven't taken a "test" in about four years).

Also, the first time I got a 4.5 on the written portion. The second time I got a 6.0. The only difference between year one and year two was that I had then taught a year of freshmen comp. That's right -- FRESHMEN comp. I tailored my essays to sound exactly what I would give an A to on a student paper and got a 6 on both. I would highly recommend on finding someone in your department who teaching ENGL 101 and have them look over a sample that you've written. Don't be cocky with this section -- they're not looking for "English-professor-worthy" papers -- they're looking for well organized and grammatically correct freshmen essays.

That's all the advice I have. For the math, I'm doomed. But I'll deal with that in my therapy sessions and not on this forum

Hope this helps! And I know everyone's very busy and applications are HIGHLY time consuming, but if you start at the beginning of this summer and dedicate, say, 4 hours a week (that's one hour a day for four different days) you'll be able to "figure" out what they're looking for. You can always find time to study for an hour an day. As someone who's been through a grad prog, I know it's possible.

Best of luck to us all this year! I'm sure we'll be writing on here a lot!

[obrera]

I'm starting my MA in September, and I'm debating whether or not to take a year off afterward and spend some time working on applications or just dive right in. The issue with that is I will be doing my PhD applications before I even complete one semester of graduate level work. Is anyone else grappling with this potential problem? I'm a Canadian student as well, and I am looking at a couple American schools. We don't need to write the GRE up here, so I don't know much about it.

[harvardlonghorn]

I'm so glad someone opened a thread for fall 2013. I've been working on building a (fully packed now) two-inch binder with all my research on schools and prep for this application season for the past two years, lol.

I'll also be working on my master's thesis in the fall (but I'll have until spring to complete it, so not too much pressure). As for the writing sample--I'm lucky to be in an MA program that requires a 25-30 page paper for every seminar in the program, so I should have a lot to work with in choosing that/whittling it down/revising my sample. I've been preparing for a while, but of course, I'm still terrified of the application process. And the GRE subject. It literally gives me nightmares, and I don't have to take it for another 7 months...

Oh, and I'm also having a baby in August. This, of course, will have the biggest impact on my being able to work on my apps in the fall, which is why I plan to finish as much as I can over the summer. Heh.

I think thus far, your situation (excluding the pregnancy-I am literally bowing down to you right now lol) is the closest to mine. I'm trying to finish as much as I can before the fall semester too. Masters Thesis, Subject Test, Final Seminar and Applications all during the fall semester is probably going to make me go crazy. I thought about taking the Subject test in April so that I could retake it in October if need be, but I'm a procrastinator at heart so I'll just wait til October. I've been working full time while completing my Masters and man I cannot wait until spring 2013!!

[rems]

I think thus far, your situation (excluding the pregnancy-I am literally bowing down to you right now lol) is the closest to mine. I'm trying to finish as much as I can before the fall semester too. Masters Thesis, Subject Test, Final Seminar and Applications all during the fall semester is probably going to make me go crazy. I thought about taking the Subject test in April so that I could retake it in October if need be, but I'm a procrastinator at heart so I'll just wait til October. I've been working full time while completing my Masters and man I cannot wait until spring 2013!!

I didn't really start working on apps until this past fall semester when I was attempting to finish my M.A. with writing a thesis, sub tests, the works, and it was a huge mistake. Such a huge mistake that I decided to wait a year to apply because, really, there was no way I could turn in a good app AND do everything else grad school requires. If I could do it all over again, I would definitely start as soon as possible.

So, I think you're on the right track! Good luck!

[harvardlonghorn]

I'm starting my MA in September, and I'm debating whether or not to take a year off afterward and spend some time working on applications or just dive right in. The issue with that is I will be doing my PhD applications before I even complete one semester of graduate level work. Is anyone else grappling with this potential problem? I'm a Canadian student as well, and I am looking at a couple American schools. We don't need to write the GRE up here, so I don't know much about it.

I actually posted a similar question in another area of this forum. I'm currently working on my Masters and I will be submitting PhD applications during my final semester. So my GPA won't reflect my grades for the fall semester or my Thesis, which could potentially be the difference between say a 3.67 and 3.77. Its frustrating because you certainly want to be as competitive as possible when submitting applications and everyone has a different take on "what's important". I think a lot depends on which programs you plan on applying to. I can't say with confidence that a .10 grade difference is insignificant to Ivy League adcoms when their stats indicate 3.8+ gpas. I know some people on here feel there may be "throw-away" aspects of the application, but for me I feel like every portion of the application holds significance. If it didn't, they wouldn't require it. I know some feel the fear of submitting an application is solely based on GRE performance, and I cannot stress enough that my fear is not putting together a strong overall application. There are a lot of components to these applications and I'm trying to make sure every component is as strong as possible. Ultimately, I decided to submit applications for fall 2013, but if I am unsuccessful I will likely reapply for fall 2014. Fingers crossed, I won't have to reapply!

[id quid]

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with options. (Warning: what follows is a very self-involved, #firstworldproblems whinge!)

Part of the reason I decided to take a break from school was because it had been my whole life for, well, my whole life. I'm talking every summer, every winter break, from elementary school on. I did special trips, I took summer school, I took college classes. Part of this, I think, is because I'm first-generation, and my parents pinned their hopes on me going to college. There was no other option. I didn't mind, of course, and I excelled at school. It was a place where I "fit in."

But oh god did I ever need a break when I finished college. My momentum had started faltering by the end of high school, and it sort of took a nosedive when I started college. Lots of personal stuff came up, too, which tore me between family and school, to the detriment of my grades. I thought I'd give the working world a chance. I've found it... less to my liking than I'd expected. I certainly enjoy the flexibility (work only 5 days a week? done at 5pm? while getting paid?!?!). I do have a knack for what I do here, too. I don't enjoy it, though, and if I have to look forward to doing what I'm doing now for the next 40 years, well, let's just say I won't actually be looking forward 40 years.

So, school. I dearly miss it. It's not surprising, given I'd defined my first 21 years by it, but school is where I feel at home. I love libraries, I love books, I love discussions about people and things that have been gone for hundreds of years, I love pushing up against the boundaries of knowledge and challenging them, I love being in a place where this is all valued.

And yet I'm still terrified of committing my life to nothing but. Part of why I decided to major in English, other than the obvious love of it, was because I thought science was too restricting. If I'd majored in neuroscience like I'd planned to, I never would have been able to take Old English or history of Christianity to 1400 or Italian or arctic folklore. So why do I think I can do 6-8 years of highly specialized training, and commit the rest of my life to further deepening this training and sharing it with others?

Don't get me wrong. I love my field. I always have. My parents bought me a 15th century woodcut print for my 16th birthday, and my most treasured memory was handling a book of hours at Stanford's library. I've studied Old English, Latin, Italian (with an eye to reading Dante untranslated), French and German, all because I truly desire to expand my knowledge of the "early years of western civilization."

But... is it all I want to ever do? That... that I have a hard time deciding.

Edited March 30, 2012 by saecla vincere

[rems]

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with options. (Warning: what follows is a very self-involved, #firstworldproblems whinge!)

Part of the reason I decided to take a break from school was because it had been my whole life for, well, my whole life. I'm talking every summer, every winter break, from elementary school on. I did special trips, I took summer school, I took college classes. Part of this, I think, is because I'm first-generation, and my parents pinned their hopes on me going to college. There was no other option. I didn't mind, of course, and I excelled at school. It was a place where I "fit in."

But oh god did I ever need a break when I finished college. My momentum had started faltering by the end of high school, and it sort of took a nosedive when I started college. Lots of personal stuff came up, too, which tore me between family and school, to the detriment of my grades. I thought I'd give the working world a chance. I've found it... less to my liking than I'd expected. I certainly enjoy the flexibility (work only 5 days a week? done at 5pm? while getting paid?!?!). I do have a knack for what I do here, too. I don't enjoy it, though, and if I have to look forward to doing what I'm doing now for the next 40 years, well, let's just say I won't actually be looking forward 40 years.

So, school. I dearly miss it. It's not surprising, given I'd defined my first 21 years by it, but school is where I feel at home. I love libraries, I love books, I love discussions about people and things that have been gone for hundreds of years, I love pushing up against the boundaries of knowledge and challenging them, I love being in a place where this is all valued.

And yet I'm still terrified of committing my life to nothing but. Part of why I decided to major in English, other than the obvious love of it, was because I thought science was too restricting. If I'd majored in neuroscience like I'd planned to, I never would have been able to take Old English or history of Christianity to 1400 or Italian or arctic folklore. So why do I think I can do 6-8 years of highly specialized training, and commit the rest of my life to further deepening this training and sharing it with others?

Don't get me wrong. I love my field. I always have. My parents bought me a 15th century woodcut print for my 16th birthday, and my most treasured memory was handling a book of hours at Stanford's library. I've studied Old English, Latin, Italian (with an eye to reading Dante untranslated), French and German, all because I truly desire to expand my knowledge of the "early years of western civilization."

But... is it all I want to ever do? That... that I have a hard time deciding.

These are totally legit concerns to have, and I'm not sure if you're asking for advice or just throwing the idea out there, but I'm going to respond anyway.

This is actually why I didn't apply to PhD's for 2012 -- I took the year off to see if this is "really" what I want to do. I'm currently an M.A. student and going straight from undergrad to M.A. and then seeing 7 years down the road was terrifying. Then I started thinking: "There's more to me than reading books! I'm a person damnit!" And that was the final point that I decided I needed a year to relax, do yoga, get a dog, and learn to bake just because I could.

If you're having these doubts, try the M.A. first. If you don't like it, then you didn't waste time starting a PhD, and worse case scenario is that you get a M.A. in something. It is VERY overwhelming tho -- I'm only a masters student and I barely have time to breath as is. It is a lot, but you can always define yourself as you see fit. It totally sucks to have to become an expert in something because you do have other interests, of course, but I keep telling myself that one day I'm going to work with _____ or next time I'm doing it totally differently and studying ________. Or I'm gonna become a librarian, and not a university librarian -- a local, underpaid, reads to kids, attends hippy fests kind of librarian. Ah, the dream.

But I digress, but I just wanted to say I HEAR YOU. That's a huge obstacle to overcome in this line of work because it's not like you get to leave it at the office at 5 -- it goes with you everywhere. (That being said I need to stop reading this forum and edit my thesis.)

Anyway, I by all means do not want to come off as presumptuous while responding to your question, but I think you ask a very appropriate one that we in academia tend to put on the back burner until we crack one day down the line.

(End rant.)

[id quid]

Not presumptuous at all -- thank you very much for your input!

That is precisely my worry: that I will lose hold of everything else that makes me who I am in pursuit of this shiny, beautiful, perfect closed world that is The Academy/Ivory Tower. I hardly think I'm alone in finding that isolating and more than a little scary, but I admit to wondering if maybe I am just a little odd and if this is a hint I should keep away from graduate studies and everything that comes after it.

The biggest challenge is something I've recently articulated in conversations with my SO. Basically, how do you tell the difference between persevering in the face of challenges à la mode de Job, and taking overwhelming force as a divine sign that You Should Look Elsewhere?

I know there's no right answer, this is all individual, and that I'm going to be hearing a lot about Finding a Fit, whether that's in a school or decidedly outside academe. I accept this! But I won't deny the process is painful.

[ComeBackZinc]

One thing that I simultaneously often want to say, and feel like a hypocrite if I do say, is related to what you're talking about, saecla vincere. Your existential quandary is itself rather optimistic in that it assumes that you will have the opportunity to spend your life in that perfect closeted world. And the numbers say you likely won't, just as they do for me. I bring this up halfheartedly around here sometimes, but it bears repeating: the overwhelming odds are that some significant majority of the people who post here will finish their PhDs and never find a tenure track position. That's just the numbers. The best programs in the world graduate PhDs who never get hired. Happens all the time. To people from Harvard and from Yale and from Berkeley and Oxford and wherever else. That's reality.

So while I admire the fact that you are thinking deeply about the issues you've identified, you've also got to struggle with the fact that you are likely to find those issues preempted away. Not that I identify your odds as an better or any worse, just that the numbers are so overwhelmingly bad that any individual candidate can't feel comfortable in his or her odds of getting a job. That consideration should probably come first.

[antecedent]

saecla vincere and rems, thank you so much for posting your feelings about the matter. I experienced these concerns as well last Spring while my mentor was encouraging me to go to grad school. I took this year off to think about my motives for grad school and, yes, to just experience life as another cog in the corporate machine. My mentor prof pointed out that (and not that I necessarily endorse this point of view, but it comforted me at the time) if I know I want to go to grad school, I should apply and do my best to get in. At the end of the day, if I came through grad school, got my PhD, and then decided that what I really wanted to be was a potter, then I could become a potter with a PhD in literature and that would be just fine. It's admirable that so many people in these forums know that academia is the One True Career for them, but for the rest of us that think it is but aren't 100% sure we can hack it, it can be just as hard committing to the process in the first place. I definitely support the idea of a year off, just to clear your head space (and dedicate some time to applications if that's the route you chose).

But ComeBackZinc's point figures in here too. Even if you decide you do want to commit to a life of academia, there's no guarantee you'll even get it. I mean, I would love to be a professor, and I will work hard to make that goal a reality. But if it just doesn't pan out, I may just end up being a basket weaver (or an editor, or a non-profit administrator) with a PhD.

{Edit} I think a lot of this comes down to our ultimate inability to predict the future. We'd all like to know whether or not we can handle the heat of 7 years of doctoral work, or whether or not doing that will get us the tenure-track job of our dreams. At the end of the day though, you'll never know whether or not you could do it if you don't try. The odds may be against you, but that's no reason not do try, it's just another factor in the decision making process.

This is all to say, I'm pretty sure this is the career for me, but I'll let you know in 10 years. (Funny, my boyfriend says the same thing about being a meteorologist).

Edited March 30, 2012 by antecedant