$200,000+ for a ph. D worth it?

[Brightstar3]

Would really appreciate your opinion.

I'm 29 and got into a phd program that doesn't pay. By the time I get out I will be $200,000+ in debt and in my mid-late 30s (it's somewhat of a big deal if I want to have kids). It's a clinical psych program with a possible neuropsych track (I have to apply for the track).

I was just wondering if it will all be worth it in the end. Will I be able to find a career that pays well so that I can make a dent in my debt? Or should I just get a job, save money, and not worry about dissertations, internships, research, and practicums. The latter is tempting but I have this chance it get my ph d and I don't want to make the wrong decision.

Regrets? Satisfied? Dream turn nightmare? Dream come true? Which one are u?

[lewin]

I bet the APA (or some other group) has average salaries for clinical psychologists. That would help answer the "can I repay my debt" question. You could also consider defering for a year and applying to funded programs.

[spunky]

might not be the most optimistic answer to your question, but this article helped me understand quite a few things:

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Big-Lie-About-the-Life-of/63937/

[lewin]

That article is interesting but it's about the humanities and may not generalize to a professional degree like clinical psychology. Even the prospects for natural and social scientists are better than for those in the humanities.

[iopsych]

I would say no, it is not worth it. There are options available, where working in certain areas will take care of your SLs, but I wouldn't want to take the chance. That will financially cripple you. I had to take out 15k in loans throughout my PhD program and I feel like that is a lot.

You would be paying about 1-1.5k/month in interest.

[Sassychica]

I would not do it. I have loans from undergrad and no matter how much money you will be making I dont think it will be worth 200k worth of loans. Just my personal opinion. But I do know how it feels to want to be in school working towards your goals because I contemplated taking lots of loans out again, but I refuse. I would just apply for other programs and wait it out. I hope you find a solution and do what's right for you.

[sweetnighter]

DONT DO IT

If you just want to become a practicing therapist, save the time and money and go for an MSW. If you're interested in an academic-research career, wait until the next admissions cycle rolls around and apply exclusively to programs that fund their students. NO program is worth that much money, and it could be 15 or 20 years until you break even on that investment. When there are so many other cheaper options available, and funded programs, and fellowships, etc., there's no need to go that far in debt for a doctoral degree.

[spunky]

That article is interesting but it's about the humanities and may not generalize to a professional degree like clinical psychology. Even the prospects for natural and social scientists are better than for those in the humanities.

i guess you're right and i failed to elaborate a little bit more in that this situation could very well apply everywhere... especially on this economy. and probably the point i was trying to emphasise as well is that, usually, you're not in psychology (or any other social sciences/arts/humanities) for the money, it just doesnt pay that well in general. but if you're willing to go and consider the possibility of being $200K in debt when you're out from gradschool you're gonna need money... a lot of it and fast because the interest is simply gonna.eat.you.alive. i dont think how much worth is there on being a PhD when you cant even pay for decent housing... let alone adding kids to the equation.

siding with pretty much everyone else in here: don't do it. look for an alternate program that does pay or try and save some money and re-apply again. as my grandma used to say: just as with drinking... DREAM RESPONSIBLY

[Behavioral]

In short, definitely not.

Source: everything that's said here by current students and practicing clinical psychologists.

[lewin]

i guess you're right and i failed to elaborate a little bit more in that this situation could very well apply everywhere... especially on this economy. and probably the point i was trying to emphasise as well is that, usually, you're not in psychology (or any other social sciences/arts/humanities) for the money, it just doesnt pay that well in general. but if you're willing to go and consider the possibility of being $200K in debt when you're out from gradschool you're gonna need money... a lot of it and fast because the interest is simply gonna.eat.you.alive. i dont think how much worth is there on being a PhD when you cant even pay for decent housing... let alone adding kids to the equation.

siding with pretty much everyone else in here: don't do it. look for an alternate program that does pay or try and save some money and re-apply again. as my grandma used to say: just as with drinking... DREAM RESPONSIBLY

Yeah sorry I didn't mean to suggest that none of it was appilcable, only that maybe it's not as dire as that article suggestions. I especially agree with your final two words! Myself, I only applied to programs that were funded because I knew I shouldn't do an unfunded program and didn't want to be tempted if it was the only place where I was accepted.

[KatKad]

I have to play devils advocate since everyone is saying don't do it. I've had the same questions and issues running through my mind as well, as I am finishing the first year in a program that doesnt pay. Here are some things to look at: 1) Do you have to take out full loans each year or can you get a part time job? Are there other untapped sources of funding you haven't looked into like fellowships, grants, scholarships? There's a lot out there for phd students so do some research on things to apply for. 2) Does your program offer reduced tuition after a few years? In mine, in the 3rd year you can get a certain percentage drop, then once on internship or just doing disertation hours the tuition drops again. Get all the facts, and if there are any other special circumstances options your financial aid office may not be clearly advertising (But may be hidden in the fine print). I fully plan to get any tuition reductions and such ASAP and have applied for fellowships through various agencies. 3) look into loan reduction programs. There are TONS of programs out there that will repay part of your loans for different reasons. For example, in some states if you agree to work in a rural or low ses area for a few years, they'll pay back a portion of your loans. There are other repayment programs, it just takes research!

I too am quite worried about the debt, and being a late 20's married lady with a kid already, I understand the concern over the bills. But don't freak out just by adding up your first year's tuition for the next 5. REALLY research and look into other options and it may not be as bad as you think. And at the end of your days, in all honesty, are you going to be happy or have regrets if you don't do the degree? Just food for thought.

[Ennue]

I say: don't do it. Don't do any type of unfunded PhD program, ever. Not only are you going into massive debt, I've also heard you can be considered somewhat of a 'second-rank' student by faculty, and from what I've heard fellowships such as mentioned KatKad usually go to students who got funding from the start.

Especially since you mention wanting to have kids - a PhD program can be really intense and takes a long time. It's difficult to have children while you're in the program even leaving any financial issues aside, and you probably don't want to have kids as soon as you're done either, since you'd want to get a secure, proper job first (or build a client base, or whatever). Though I guess if you're a guy that wouldn't be as much of a concern. Of course, not everyone wants to have kids. But it sounds like it might be important to you. So: consider your priorities, because you can't have everything you want. Do you prefer years of (stressful, but awesome) studying and learning and becoming really good at something? Do you prefer financial security, not having to worry about whether you'll be able to afford rent (or food, or health insurance) next month, every month? Do you prefer building a family? Everyone will have different answers, so there's no right or wrong... But 200.000 dollars (or 100.000, or 50.000) is a lot and so this is time for serious prioritizing! Good luck!

[Brightstar3]

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS!

It was suggested to that I attend for a year then apply again to other programs and transfer out. I wonder if anyone has ever done that and if there are any advantages to that (if any).

I plan to look at my financial options and decide from there. Loans for grad school are no longer subsidized so that's another pain. Also, it looks like I would have to take out more than one loan (maybe 2 or 3. cue heartbreak). I've been asking around and the response has been luke warm. And the response here has been an overwhelming NO (but for good reasons).

The tuition does lessen as I take less and less classes but not by much. if I add in the other fees they charge later it'll be close to the same. BUT I'll definitely look up my financial options before counting it out.

too bad I didn't win the lottery a few weeks ago

[gradguy]

That's crazy debt to take on. Heaven forbid you get stuck with a bad advisor and end up not finishing. I chose to pass on a free ride for my master's degree and go to a school with no financial aid because of the professors, etc at the university. I luckily received aid for the last three semesters I was there, but I had nearly $13,000 added to my overall debt for that first semester I didn't have financial aid and it hurts. I got the degree in 2004 and have not done anything even resembling my degree field since. Now I wish I would have taken the free ride and at least I wouldn't have to pay back loans for two college degrees I don't even use.

We had a guy take classes during the first year of my master's program and he was not accepted into the program, but they had agreed to allow him to take classes with the possibility they would allow him into the program based on his performance. He did eventually get into the program, but he was the joke of the program. No one wanted to work with him on projects and none of the professors in the department respected him. He eventually just left the program without getting his degree. You don't want to be that guy.

[eveline]

On 4/9/2012 at 4:56 PM, Brightstar3 said:

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS!

 

It was suggested to that I attend for a year then apply again to other programs and transfer out. I wonder if anyone has ever done that and if there are any advantages to that (if any).

 

I plan to look at my financial options and decide from there. Loans for grad school are no longer subsidized so that's another pain. Also, it looks like I would have to take out more than one loan (maybe 2 or 3. cue heartbreak). I've been asking around and the response has been luke warm. And the response here has been an overwhelming NO (but for good reasons).

 

The tuition does lessen as I take less and less classes but not by much. if I add in the other fees they charge later it'll be close to the same. BUT I'll definitely look up my financial options before counting it out.

 

too bad I didn't win the lottery a few weeks ago

Hi @Brightstar3, did you ever end up accepting this program/the debt? 

[summavanlaude]

Didn't realize the post is from 2012  

Edited February 25, 2017 by summavanlaude

[fuzzylogician]

This thread is from 2012. No need to give the OP advice at this point. 

[mutualist007]

For anyone reading this in 2017, the overwhelming answer is no. That amount of loans would only be worth it if you were considering an MD as a Psychiatrist and also wanted to add a PhD. Unless you got a grantor to sponsor you so that the loan would almost be interest free - and place you in a job with a under-served community.