Do You Feel You Deserve a Reason for Rejection?

[DefinitelyMaybe]

I'm uncomfortable with the term "deserve" in the question (I lurk on the Chronicle forum and a common theme is a sense of entitlement in students) but I really would WANT to know why.

Ridgey, I lurk over there too and I totally get what you mean.

I guess I feel "deserve" is an accurate word because we do PAY them to review our applications (what they do with the money is not my concern or the issue). Most of the people on this site came out of $500-$1000 in application fees, test fees, the cost of sending additional test scores, etc. If they were doing it for FREE, that would be a totally different issue (in fact, I would say no one deserves an explanation if your materials were reviewed for free). But this is an extremely costly undertaking and in my opinion, it's TOO costly a process to do more than once.

In my eyes, this is not comparable to some whiney undergraduate feeling like they deserve an "A for effort" on their papers.

[Tinyboss]

You pay them to review your application, and they do review it. A detailed response is not promised by any school I'm aware of, so you did not pay for that.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

You pay them to review your application, and they do review it. A detailed response is not promised by any school I'm aware of, so you did not pay for that.

Every application doesn't get reviewed. Most schools don't like to admit it, but they DO have GRE/GPA/other arbitrary cutoff scores and there are HUNDREDS of apps that get tossed right in the garbage from the get-go. They certainly aren't going to return THOSE fees.

So they should give the rejected people who DO make it through a reason!

[Tinyboss]

Every application doesn't get reviewed. Most schools don't like to admit it, but they DO have GRE/GPA/other arbitrary cutoff scores and there are HUNDREDS of apps that get tossed right in the garbage from the get-go. They certainly aren't going to return THOSE fees.

So they should give the rejected people who DO make it through a reason!

Not to get into hair-splitting territory, but if a glance at the GRE/GPA boxes is all the review that's required, it's still a review! ;-)

[brosenth1984]

Not to get into hair-splitting territory, but if a glance at the GRE/GPA boxes is all the review that's required, it's still a review! ;-)

I agree, sometimes it is glaringly obvious why one doesn't get in. I work in an admissions office (which i must say is the BEST help in actually applying), and we get people who submit papers from 30 years ago, i mean, come on! how could you expect o get into a phd program with that!

[Louiselab]

I asked for feedback last year... The comments varied, and some of the professors made me want to apply again and others did not. It's unreasonable to expect an answer, especially because sometimes it does just come down to "well, we did it with a bingo machine and yours didn't fall out!" Sometimes there isn't really a reason, and that's not your fault that's just how the arbitrary admissions process works. How helpful were the actual comments.... eh. They did assure me that I wasn't mentally incapable or anything, and I did get a lot of compliments on my writing sample which surprisingly made me feel much better. Schools that simply said "GRE" were automatically knocked off the list. Who wants to be at one of those?

The application fee, I might argue, is payment for a review and judgment of your application, not necessarily a detailed response. They did give you a judgment, after all.

[milara]

When I applied early action to my undergrad institution (a top 10 in the world school), I was deferred to regular decision. I called up, and despite the school having a 10% acceptance rate (and thus about 10,000 applicants), they took the time to give me a hint about the weakest parts of my application.

If they can do it when I'm one in 10,000 with room to accept only 1,000, then I think they can probably do it in an application pool where you're one in 350 with the room to accept only 35 (for example).

I certainly plan to contact the programs in question, but I plan to do it in a very personable fashion. You know... "I'm very eager to attend your program, and I was wondering if you might have any suggestions about how I might improve my application for next year -- or if I'm a viable candidate -- based on this year's application?"

I would be pretty surprised if they ignored such a request, but it could happen, I suppose.

[sparkle456]

I asked why I was rejected. I got a friendly response from the DGS saying "thank you for being in touch" and that she'd have the PA look into it. He wrote me the next day with very specific information. Wth, I'll just post what it said:

Dear Ms. Sparkle,

With 100+ students' application materials to review, our faculty could not go into great detail as to the reasoning behind their decisions to approve or decline admission. In general, however, I can tell you that the faculty perceived your application as being only average and not outstanding across any evaluation metric used in the review this spring.

Specific comments provided were that the quality of your personal statement and your fit with the department was "good" and your writing and reasoning ability was "good but could use improvement." On a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 means "definitely admit" and 5 means "definitely do not admit," your application scored a 3.

There is little doubt that you would excel in a graduate program. Unfortunately, considering the number of outstanding applications we received for this year's cohort, our department simply doesn't have the resources to accommodate you at this time.

Best wishes in your future endeavors,

Title

SO that was what I got. I say, hell yes contact the program if you get rejected and want to know why. It's the least they can do with all the time we put into the process and the app fee.

[sonnyday]

I agree with Miratrix.

But I do think its worth a try to ask, if even just for a few schools you thought you were going to get into.

There was one school who let me know why I was not accepted. The department head (without my asking) let me know that they really wanted to accept me, but a transcript from a community college I had attended part-time came in way too late. The department was fine with that (the transferred grades were already on my university transcript anyway), and I scrambled to get them to hurry with releasing the transcript while we kept contact for over two weeks. But the graduate admissions would not allow them to nominate me for a fellowship unless it came through before a certain date--and all accepted students needed to be nominated for a fellowship. They attempted to petition for an extension, but were stifled. Long story short: Bureaucracy. Even worse, the transcript came just one day after the deadline. The department head contacted me personally to explain this to me.

Its a huge bummer, but I think when there are certain unfortunate circumstances such as late transcripts, no advisor "fit", etc., then they will probably tell you because it actually makes you feel better as it is to no fault of your own (although I was just as annoyed that I missed out on a chance at a great school over a small technicality). But if you were just inadequate in some way or someone else was just slightly more appealing than you (even if you were a 4.0 student) based on grades or scores, they probably will not tell you this.

[fenderpete]

Of those who've contacted programs, who did you contact? I'm assuming you didn't go straight to the DGS, or did you?

[Tumbleweed]

Since applicants are required to submit standardized test scores - why not have departments fill out standardized rejection forms. Check this box for how far the application got in the review process. Check this box to signify application areas that need improvement etc. That way they wouldn't have to write anything....just check, check, check. Done. No letter needed, just check 'rejected' at the top of the form :?

[socialpsych]

Since applicants are required to submit standardized test scores - why not have departments fill out standardized rejection forms. Check this box for how far the application got in the review process. Check this box to signify application areas that need improvement etc. That way they wouldn't have to write anything....just check, check, check. Done. No letter needed, just check 'rejected' at the top of the form :?

Apparently NSF does something like this when choosing who should get grants. I think it's pretty neat.

[belowthree]

Apparently NSF does something like this when choosing who should get grants. I think it's pretty neat.

I don't know what programs you're talking about, but this certainly isn't universally true for all NSF programs. (Unless they created a new review process in the last 6-9 months...) With most programs, you do get detailed reviews from each of your reviewers and a panel summary, so you do get feedback... slightly better than you would get back for a paper submission.

Actually it seems that paper submissions are closer to what you'd be thinking of as they sometimes provide you the 1-5 scores that the reviewers assigned over several categories. At least in my field...

[socialpsych]

Actually it seems that paper submissions are closer to what you'd be thinking of as they sometimes provide you the 1-5 scores that the reviewers assigned over several categories. At least in my field...

Yep, that's what I had in mind.

[belowthree]

Yep, that's what I had in mind.

Ah... the comments always seem a whole lot more useful to me than the numbers.

[deianira]

Stanford Biosciences Neuro department just replied to my request with a personal and very polite email, saying that they cannot disclose the information before or after the review process. So it sounds like this particular program may actually have a formal policy about nondisclosure.

[poliscidude]

Ha! Nevermind a reason, I would just like an answer to whether I am definitely rejected or not. All but one of my schools has been notifying people of acceptance, rejection and waitlisting and I have heard none of the above. Entering my result into the system and shooting me an email wouldn't kill them. It's common courtesy. They probably take pleasure in our squirming.

[Robusto]

I agree with the topic poster. The schools generate a substantial amount of income from people that will never set foot on campus as a student. The least they can do is personalize the rationale. The staffing/time constraint argument is a tired and frankly a cop out. at some of these schools, like BU, the fees for 4 applications would be enough to pay a seasonal employee $500 a to help for a week with the task

[Tinyboss]

Ha! Nevermind a reason, I would just like an answer to whether I am definitely rejected or not.

This.

[fenderpete]

Who did you contact to get feedback?

[liszt85]

I was pleasantly surprised when a professor personally contacted me to let me know that a negative decision might come my way and that it had nothing to do with my qualifications:

Dear __,

I have been monitoring the admissions process for graduate school at

XYZ. In case you have received a negative email from the admissions

committee, I should mention that I would certainly have liked to have

you in my lab if this had been possible. The problem was that the

Psychology Department does not admit international students unless

they bring their own funding through a Fellowship or Award - and so

every year they turn down several excellent international candidates

such as yourself. (The reason has to do with allocation of funds from

the State of California, and the decision is not a capricious one.)

Hopefully you have anyway been, or will be, accepted somewhere else.

At all events, please accept my best wishes in your career - I hope

that you decide to go into music cognition, as you have some very

interesting ideas in this field.

Sincerely,

X

I then wrote to X saying that I hadn't received an email yet from the grad school and X replied immediately and asked me not to lose hope in that case as they probably might've been looking for alternate sources but the email arrived a few hours later and this email was a cold one. I forwarded it to X who then told me that X was glad X contacted me prior to this cold email because X totally wanted to have me join X's lab. This is what happens during recession ( Why did you guys vote for Bush??!

[barry_86404]

Hate to tell you but the recession is tied to policies set up in 1997 and 1998 so in reality it wasn't bushes fault but clintons

[sunshine6]

With all due respect Barry, I'd say that is up for debate, but in an entirely different thread.

Either way, the economy is certainly having a large effect on admissions this year, one of the schools I talked to said they would like to continue their 98% funding rate, but could no longer guarantee it. A VIP school in my field has placed some of it's faculty on furlough. Wish i would have known that before I sent them ($) an app.

[inactive_since_inf]

Qualitative 'personalized' reasons will be time consuming for the univs. But I wonder what they take the $ for...

Quantitative parametric reasons (relative) might be easier to compile and disseminate... (resources necessary to do this: an IT/CS guy to get it automated along with the emails...)

[MDLee]

A VIP school in my field has placed some of it's faculty on furlough. Wish i would have known that before I sent them ($) an app.

I know, huh!! So...they all accepted my $ without offering me full disclosure of their ability to accept me. Then some of them can't even admit students this term--much LESS with funding! Ponzi scheme? If it weren't higher education I'd say so. Since it is higher education, however...I imagine this is just par for the course.