Why is this so difficult?

[srabiee]

I'm just looking for some sort of guidance or helpful advice in any capacity. I'm confused and overwhelmed.

I just finished my undergrad with a BA in psychology and a BA in gender studies. My GPA is acceptable... it dropped to 3.78 from 3.8 this semester, which I'm still kicking myself over. Psychology GPA is 3.925. I took the GRE last summer with the idea that I'd be applying to PhD programs in the fall. My scores were 700 Q and 570 V. I was very unhappy with the latter so there's no question that it needs to be retaken for me to be considered competitive. I also still need to take the subject test. Luckily, last fall I found a solution to put the admissions process off for awhile: I'm going back to my university for another year because I'm doing our progressive master's program. This will give me an MA in Psychological Science and hopefully a publication from a dissertation I must complete. My advisor referred to it as a "research degree" that I can't really do anything with, but it seems to suit my purposes well. I am interested in pursuing a PhD in Clinical Psychology after this, and it will give me neccessary research experience (the only other relevant things on my resume are a year and a half of obervational coding and, after this summer, 2 summers at an outdoor psychoeducational facility for children with emotional issues).

I feel like my problem is hard to articulate, but basically (I guess..) I don't know what I want to do! When I was looking for potential faculty advisors for my Master's, I got laughed out of their offices because I couldn't describe my interests in great detail. I thought "I'm interested in psychopathology. I would like work in a hospital or clinic to diagnose and treat mental illnesses" would be enough, but I guess not. Are my interests too broad? One professor had enough faith to become an advisor, and I think my research with him will be focused on schizophrenia. He studies minority mental health and is a clinical psychologist, so I'm genuinely excited to work with him.

Clinical psychology seemed like a perfect path, but for the last year I've been incredibly confused by the huge focus on academia. I've searched for solid information, but it seems to be contradictory. I thought posting here might help, since I've never gone into detail about my plight. I know PhDs are heavily research oriented, and I don't think I'll mind. The thing is, I want to practice in the future and have little interest in academic professions. Here's an example of my dilemma. The Columbia program states on the website: "The program is not designed to meet the needs of those whose career goals are focused primarily on the practice of psychotherapy." That seems to go for most of them. And don't even get me started on PsyDs... they sounded perfect at first, but upon inspection, they seem like a huge waste. I know they are doctorates but I've done enough research to know that they're poorly funded and have narrower career options. Funding is another issue. My mother has kindly been paying my way through undergrad and intends to do the same for the master's, but I know she can't support me after this, so I'm looking for programs that will fund me. But how am I supposed to write a statement of purpose or pick professors I want to work with if I don't figure out exactly what I want to research? And then for all this, I was reading about salaries and clinical psychologists make an average of about... 60k?! I want to help people above all, but I'd also like to live comfortably. As such, I discarded social work as an option. People stared at me in disbelief when I mentioned it, and I also decided that it may be too emotionally trying for my personality. I was so desperate that today I was looking into psychiatry/med school (not really possible, as I'm not a strong hard science person). My friend is going to the top I/O psychology program in the country on a full ride (is that what it's called?) in the fall and I'm so jealous (100k average salary)... then again, I'm not interested in business.

I'm going to the aforementioned. summer program in 3 weeks. It's a 24 hour job so I won't even have time to think about any of this. I've gotten myself anxious to the point that I haven't done any of the Master's work I'm supposed to be doing for my doctoral partner. Does anyone have any tips? Thank you so much if you read my long-winded post!

Edited May 31, 2012 by srabiee

[ILuvPsych2013]

The money in psychology is definitely not the best, but I/O is one exception to the rule. It is also an area of psychology that has an outstanding job outlook for the next ten years. As I have been researching schools (I will be applying to I/O programs this fall), I have noticed many people doing research on psychopathy in the workplace, particularly among those in leadership positions. I know it is a bit of a stray from what you are looking to do, but it would be a way to still be in the "mental illness" side of things while earning a nice paycheck. This is just my 2 cents. I have a friend who is in a similar dilemma so I have been trying to sway him over to the I/O side of the fence as well

[Arcadian]

First, I'm going to be very straight-up about the salary issue: Get over it. If you are really passionate about psychology, then you shouldn't even have to worry about that. You're afraid that 60k isn't enough to "live comfortably"? Please. That's more than enough. This culture is so obsessed with money and possessions...it's sad, really. I'm living comfortably on my PhD stipend, and I'm happy with that because I'm doing the work I want to be doing.

Sorry, that issue just gets me going every time. Other points:

...it dropped to 3.78 from 3.8 this semester, which I'm still kicking myself over.

That's -0.02. Stop kicking yourself.

My scores were 700 Q and 570 V. I was very unhappy with the latter...

Those are actually good. I understand clinical is super-competitive, so maybe I see your concern there, but those are still good enough scores IMO. GRE scores really aren't that important overall.

When I was looking for potential faculty advisors for my Master's, I got laughed out of their offices because I couldn't describe my interests in great detail.

Did they really laugh at you? That's rude... I had a similar issue going into grad school. I thought, "I want to study brain-behavior relationships using neuroimaging." And I was open to anything within that. But my adviser still liked me, so I got in.

...I've been incredibly confused by the huge focus on academia... (I) have little interest in academic professions.

Why not? If you really want to be a clinical psychologist, you should be thrilled about academia. Your job description will be to discover new facts about mental health (i.e. by conducting scientific research) and to communicate those findings with the public through teaching and publishing. How can you not be interested in academia?

I understand you want to focus on clinical practice, but surely you understand that psychology is first-and-foremost a science and therefore will necessarily involve scientific research and teaching...which takes place in academic settings. See my reasoning?

[tocs1]

The PhD programs may have little interest attracting students who are primarily interested in practice, but that doesn't mean that there aren't PhD students who have goals similar to yours, and many of these programs are accredited which is important for finding internships later on. Guess what, these accreditations and internships have little to do with academic research. I don't know if I should continue publicly; feel free to PM me for straight talk.

[srabiee]

Thank you all for your replies. Arcadian, I know you're right about the money issue. It just seems so little for all the time and work, but I'd rather do something I'm interested in. Also, I guess I should articulate my stance on academia. It's not that I'm not interested in it, or I wouldn't bother with a PhD. I know a big part of being a clinical psychologist is the research. I shouldn't have been so general with the term... basically I just don't want to be a professor. But what you're saying makes sense to me.

I also found this site, and I was wondering if this page sounds accurate to you all: http://clinicalpsychgradapp.wordpress.com/preliminary-planning/should-i-even-go/

Edited June 1, 2012 by srabiee

[grimmiae]

I just finished my undergrad with a BA in psychology and a BA in gender studies. My GPA is acceptable... it dropped to 3.78 from 3.8 this semester, which I'm still kicking myself over. Psychology GPA is 3.925. I took the GRE last summer with the idea that I'd be applying to PhD programs in the fall. My scores were 700 Q and 570 V. I was very unhappy with the latter so there's no question that it needs to be retaken for me to be considered competitive.

I agree heavily with Arcadian. I don't really understand as to why you are beating yourself up over some of your stats. They seem as though they are good enough to get you past the cut off point for most programs. And if you want to get your verbal score up, then retake the exam? It seems as if you are being way too perfectionistic here. I mean the application process is confusing for everyone, and the most important thing you can do is feel that you tried your best. So if you want to boost your GRE scores, retake the exam. I know that clinical is super competitive, but that is just the reality...you could apply to wide range of schools.

I don't know what I want to do! When I was looking for potential faculty advisors for my Master's, I got laughed out of their offices because I couldn't describe my interests in great detail. I thought "I'm interested in psychopathology. I would like work in a hospital or clinic to diagnose and treat mental illnesses" would be enough, but I guess not. Are my interests too broad? One professor had enough faith to become an advisor, and I think my research with him will be focused on schizophrenia. He studies minority mental health and is a clinical psychologist, so I'm genuinely excited to work with him.

I am a big believer that sometimes you won't really know what you want to do until you have at least a little experience doing it. After working with mentally ill people in general I realized I hated it. I thought I would hate doing research, and I ended up LOVING it. So it all depends. If you don't know what you want to research, or have a general idea- why don't you print out research that is generally related to what you think you may like? Then, after reading it I think you may get a sense of "yes! this is what I was thinking" or "no this is so boring". As far as your professors go, professors can be very eccentric and detached from what it was like a to be a grad student/undergraduate/just someone figuring out what the hell to do. They can mean well, but sometimes they can forget where students are coming from. Least this has been my experience. Just take it for what it is, a suggestion to narrow down your interests, and go from there.

linical psychology seemed like a perfect path, but for the last year I've been incredibly confused by the huge focus on academia. I've searched for solid information, but it seems to be contradictory

It's the truth. The majority of Phd programs are not focused on producing clinical psychologists whose main goal is to do therapy. I am sure that there are multiple reasons for this, but many people interested in Clinical psychology forget this. I have met so many students that have given in to the idea that if they just apply to schools and make it apparent that "helping people" is there goal that they will just get accepted because that is what the field of clinical is all about. Doubt it. But hey- the bright side is that you have done your research so you will not be wasting your money applying to programs that are looking for researchers. If you choose to not persue that.

If you feel that working with people is really what you want to do I would suggest to really revist social work. Getting your masters as a liscensed indepent clinical social worker may be a better fit for you. But, one thing you will have to get over is the money aspect. 60k is a fine living. Unless your goal is to be ridiculously wealthy. Think about how many people have gone into jobs just to make money. The people who I have known who have done this are so unhappy and dread going to work each day and hate their lives. Lisensed independent clincal social workers make just as much as many clinical psychologists and they have to jump through way less hoops to do what they love: work with people.

I understand what you are going through. It might be a good time to consider some time off. I am really happy I took a year to focus on narrowing down my research interests. It helped immensely. If you take some time to self reflect I think they answers will come to you. It sounds cheesey, but only you really know what is a good career fit for you. I can't imagine putting myself through something I hated for five more years. I don't understand why people put themselves through this just to make more money. There's a bunch of research on money and happiness as well. Gotta love that.

Best luck.

Edited June 1, 2012 by grimmiae

[kaister]

I think the main question you have to decide first before you get into specifics is if you want to work with people one-on-one and your ideal is to help people through interactions such as that...OR if you're interested in discovery and research and whether that takes you to applying it clinical practice or research. Everything will come back to research, even if you go into a MFT type of program, there is still research involved there. So it's just a matter of what direction you want to go. If you then figure that out and still don't know what you specifically are interested in...my best advice is to seek out any opportunities to do work. Whether it be volunteering at research labs or shadowing therapists. Even taking more classes might help. I figured out what I liked from my research methods class, and I figured out what I hated from doing a clinical practicum. You will never know for sure until you experience it first.

[srabiee]

Thank you all for your helpful advice. To anyone in a predicament similar to mine, I'd definitely recommend the Insider's Guide. There is so much good information in there, and I feel more prepared to begin. I think clinical psychology is my path, but I'll also apply to a couple of counseling programs.

[bazingafriedrice]

it helps me a lot as well while reading these advs. thanks for the posting. i think i need to take sometime rethinking about which area i wana go for....maybe a year drop off would help.