Interacting with Graduate Advisor

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

I am afraid that I'm asking too many questions from the graduate advisor or asking trivial questions. For example, I haven't received any email notifications for a graduate orientation when other students from my school at other departments received email notifications, and I haven't found any announcements on the department website regarding this. I contacted the school, and they told me to contact the department, since each department handles orientation differently. When I emailed the graduate advisor, he sounded a bit annoyed in his reply.

Am I being annoying by asking trivial questions? What questions should I ask the graduate advisor, and which should I not?

[Eigen]

Why are you basing your expectations off of grad students in other departments?

Each department will do things very differently at many schools- not all of our departments even do orientations.

Also, these probably aren't questions that should be directed to the graduate advisor, but rather to the departmental administrators.

It might be a bit better to just send an e-mail saying you're trying to schedule out your move, etc., and were wondering when the semester started, how much earlier (if any) you would need to be there, and what paperwork would need to be filled out ahead of time. And then direct said e-mail to the departmental administrator, preferably the one in charge of graduate students, if the department has one.

[OregonGal]

I don't think, in mid-July for a program starting in the fall (presumably), that it's unreasonable to ask about student orientation. Now, you're only listing one example of a time you feel you may have "annoyed" your advisor with questions. If you're e-mailing them every day about the same issue, that's excessive. If you're e-mailing every day with a different issue each time, that's also excessive. However, if you've only e-mailed a couple of times about topical issues that's completely reasonable.

Some ways to try and minimize the annoyance for the advisor while still getting the answers you need are:

Ask multiple questions in a single e-mail. If you have a question, start an e-mail draft and then sit on it if possible so that if another question comes to you, you're only sending one e-mail for both and not spamming his inbox.

Also, make sure to do your research first--asking questions that can be found on a dept FAQ casts you as not being pro-active.

Make sure that the questions are truly topical to the advisor: asking about orientation is perfectly understandable, asking about good places to eat in the area is not.

Keep an eye on your communication style! Especially if you haven't met this advisor yet, keep your e-mails polite and professional. My mother is an instructor at a community college, and the e-mails she sometimes receives from current or prospective students are mind-boggling--misspellings, text-speak, emoticons, etc. Use language you'd use to write to a work supervisor, because that's what they are!

[TropicalCharlie]

Adding to Eigen -

Generally, advisors and faculty members are not directly involved in sending out notifications or planning of such events. Always contact the graduate program coordinator for your department whenever you have a trivial question like this. In most cases, the coordinators are responsible for notifications and planning of such events and likely to have answers to administrative questions. They are also ones that you will be working with primarily when it comes to stipend/reimbursement questions. It would serve you well to form a good relationship with these folks as they will be of tremendous help during your graduate experience.

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

Thanks for the help everyone.

Eigen: I can't find a "coordinator of graduate affairs", only an "administrative coordinator", would that be the person that sends out notifications?

OregonGal: I sent him one email in the past 2 months, this is the sole issue I've asked him in the past 2 months. I've heard somewhere that starting emails with "Dr." is not preferred, and instead should use the most distinguished title, "Professor". Is that true? In addition, I've also heard conflicting things about the greetings. I usually write "Dear Dr. ...." or "Dear Mr ....." since that is a professional way to speak to someone that's your supervisor, and using "Hi ...." seems to be too informal and putting yourself at their level. However, a website recommended using "Hi" and says "Dear" is TOO formal. I know this sounds paranoid but I heard some people are huge on the formalities and it couldn't hurt, right?

Charlie: What questions are appropriate of the graduate advisor?

Edited July 13, 2012 by SymmetryOfImperfection

[Eigen]

Questions appropriate to the graduate advisor are academic questions- what classes to take, scheduling research rotations, and (potentially) funding availability, TAships, etc. They're also usually the person who has to approve course selection/process, and who can help with issues relating to your relationship with your research advisor.

As to titles, yes, Administrative Coordinator (assuming it's for the program/department) sounds like the appropriate title, but it's hard to tell without actually seeing the department directory.

Not sure where you pulled the "coordinator of graduate affairs" title from, I've never heard of that one, but it sounds like it would be a school/deans office position rather than a departmental one.

[robot_hamster]

Sometimes the right person to ask these kinds of questions is the one that sits right inside the department's door. At my program, this person is labeled as "student support". Hopefully that will help.

[SeriousSillyPutty]

I agree with others, including the assessment that by late July should should know what's going on for Fall.

One strategy I have for asking questions is phrasing them, "I was wondering about x. Where should I look or who should I talk to who would be able to answer that?" That gives the profs space to answer if they know, but also a way for them to point you to a more efficient source of information without it looking like they're blowing you off -- and helps you to get a handle on how information is spread in the department. For instance, I asked my adviser about working on the side, and she said the department administrator (who has been super helpful) would know.

[TheFez]

I have had to restrain myself from going bonkers.

I have received so little communication so far. The I get emails about a departmental retreat - but it's scheduled right during Grad Student Orientations. Most of my class schedules are still TBA - so I don't know what my week will look like. But I think this is par for the course(s) with PhD programs... left-hand/right-hand coordination problems.

[TakeruK]

As for title of people in emails, most people won't even care. You can probably tell from previous interactions with them. I usually start my very first email with someone new as "Dear Prof. X" or "Hello Prof. X," -- Dr. is too stuffy a title in my opinion and most people don't like being called that since they would also reserve that title for someone with a MD. (especially physics people)

Usually once they sign their email with just their first name, then I will call them by the first name from then on. Usually this happens by the second email. If I still don't know them in person, and a few months pass, and I email them again, I might go back to a more formal greeting. In my experience, the huge majority of professors prefer to be addressed by their first name. Once I meet someone that I regularly work with in person (e.g. people in the same department), the standard is to use first names.

[MaxiJaz]

I agree with TakeruK. As trivial as it sounds, the way you address people sets the precedent for your relationship with them. My rule of thumb is the same, if given the go ahead to call them by their first name, I start to do so then on. I've been in a lot of labs with different team dynamics, and found that it might not be the best thing for you to call them by Dr. xyz or Prof. xyz when you're in a working relationship with them, as it sets this position of being a subordinate, which may be true, but not the kind of relationship you want to foster when trying to get along and work with someone. Also, I know they've earned their titles, but it's a bit antiquated and 'ass-kissey' to keep calling them that in my opinion.

[TheFez]

After I got my masters I was asked to teach some classes at my old school. I was talking to one of my ex-profs and I called him "Dr." (as I always have). He said "Fez, you don't need to call me Dr. anymore, you can call me Bill".

I told him I couldn't do that. It just didn't feel right.

He said "okay, after you get your doctorate then you can call me Bill". and I said -- "After I get my doctorate you can call me Dr."

Seriously, I call any professor by the title "Dr." or "Professor" unless it becomes abundantly clear its inappropriate. I am personal friends with some professors and go out socially - so I call them by their first names (though not when others are around, especially students.)

There's no "maybe" about it - the relationship is a subordinate one. It's also a matter of respect and tradition. Tradition is not necessarily = antiquated.

One gut check is to listen the way one professor refers to his colleagues to students. I always hear them say "Go ask Dr. so and so" or "check with Professor XYZ".... and they are peers. So that is sending the clear signal.

Edited July 15, 2012 by TheFez

[Sigaba]

^ Awesome post, TheFez.

Two small adds on to the discussion of addressing academics. First, in fields such as history, addressing a professor as "doctor" can be perceived as a slight. So if you get a "spot correction," roll with it and make the adjustment on the fly. Second, addressing academics formally can also help keep you out of situations you'd just as soon avoid --e.g. conversations of the TMI variety.

IRT the OP. You can take the silence/poor communication as a slight (that you're not a priority) or you can take it as a sign of respect (that you're intelligent and resourceful enough to figure things out). Or it can have very little to do with you. A department's administrative team can have items on the to do list that are much more time consuming, complex, and important.

In any case, consider the advantages of using your google-fu to find out the right POC and giving that person a phone call. Just because one prefers to communicate by email doesn't mean a POC feels the same way. (Also, your email queries can be hitting a filter--"orientation" for a scheduled email blast aimed at a different cohort.) In these communications, treat the POC with at least as much respect and deference as you would a tenured professor.

[TakeruK]

There's no "maybe" about it - the relationship is a subordinate one. It's also a matter of respect and tradition. Tradition is not necessarily = antiquated.

One gut check is to listen the way one professor refers to his colleagues to students. I always hear them say "Go ask Dr. so and so" or "check with Professor XYZ".... and they are peers. So that is sending the clear signal.

I don't agree -- at least in my field, while the faculty member does have experience, knowledge, wisdom, etc. over the student, the relationship is a much more equal when it comes to "work" stuff. For things that are administrative in nature, e.g. how grant money is spent, then obviously we are not in an equal partnership. I don't go in my supervisor's office and say things like "So, you're going to send me to that conference in England next month." or "You have to buy me a portable hard drive for the data now." These things are always phrased as requests, complete with justification if necessary. However, my supervisor would never just walk into my office and expect me to be ready to talk to him -- he makes an appointment to see me just like I make an appointment to see him (or if one of us has something urgent, we just pop our head in and ask if the other is ready to see us at the moment -- sometimes one of us will say "Okay, come back in 30 mins though, please"). If I'm about to head out to lunch, my prof will never expect me to change my plans to see him (although I would always offer in case he does have to go soon). I think this is a sign of mutual respect (for each other's space and time).

The subordinate aspect also is there when it comes to expertise. I wouldn't contradict my supervisor unless I know for sure he is wrong because I've done my research properly and can back it up (of course, sometimes when I do this, it turns out I'm still wrong because of other oversights, but this is okay in our relationship and I learn more from it, so all the better).

I do agree that you should definitely "read" the situations and do what's appropriate. In my case though, profs have always called each other by the first names. Even as an undergrad, a prof would tell me "Maybe you should check with John/Jane about this" and I would have a confused look on my face and they would say "Oh sorry, I mean Prof. Smith." At two different schools, I think I have not heard a prof call another professor by their title and last name, except in the most formal situations, since my second year of undergrad. Profs have also complained to us (while I was an undergrad and later as a graduate student) that their students never get the nerve to call them by their first name. That said, reading the situation is important because I have heard about profs who don't want to be using first names. So, I always cover my bases with a "Prof" greeting first and see how they lead it.

To be clear -- I am agreeing on The Fez's suggestion to do a "gut check" and do what feels right. I'm just giving a counter example that shows many professors also prefer first name terms. I also agree that parts of our relationship with our supervisors is a subordinate one, but for many things, it should be one where both student and professor are on equal footing. It's not a subordinate relationship like one between a manager and an employee at a minimum wage job, for example. I consider this a very important part of finding a good "fit" and figuring out what kind of relationship my future supervisor wants to have with his/her students is a critical part of who I choose to work with.

In Physics, a "Dr." tends to be taken the wrong way too. Like Sigaba says, if you misread the situation, and accidentally use the wrong title or a first name when it's not wanted, then a correction on the fly is all that's necessary -- I wouldn't make a big deal out of it and it won't become a big deal.

[Dal PhDer]

As others have said, don't assume that things in your department will happen the same way as other departments.

I didn't know about my student orientation until the first week of Sept!

Is there an admin person to the department? I go to my department's admin person first...they can normally direct you to who you should be talking to, or 90% of the time they will have the answer. I would also HIGHLY recommend getting the contact of your department's student organization (if they have one). You can get in touch with students and even ask them the questions that you have...also, these organizations are often partly responsible for the student orientation, so you could get info from them!

[rising_star]

Okay, so I would never ask my advisor about something like new student orientation in the department because he has nothing to do with planning it and won't be there anyway (none of the faculty save the dept chair and DGS attend). Just remember that administrative questions go to administrators.

As for how to address people, this varies widely. When I started my MA, I had a hard time addressing faculty as anything other than Dr. X. That has gradually changed. I only use "Dr. X" in emails sent to someone that I don't know personally or very well. When I email my advisor or anyone on my committee, it usually begins "Hi FirstName" because I'm on a first name basis with them all. (My department is very social so we hang out with faculty outside campus on a fairly regular basis. I've also been to the houses of everyone on my committee for social reasons at least once.) BUT, if undergrads are being copied on those emails, I will use Dr. X in the email. Hope that makes sense and isn't too confusing.

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

As others have said, don't assume that things in your department will happen the same way as other departments.

I didn't know about my student orientation until the first week of Sept!

Is there an admin person to the department? I go to my department's admin person first...they can normally direct you to who you should be talking to, or 90% of the time they will have the answer. I would also HIGHLY recommend getting the contact of your department's student organization (if they have one). You can get in touch with students and even ask them the questions that you have...also, these organizations are often partly responsible for the student orientation, so you could get info from them!

thanks, I really didn't even know the admin staff did this, seriously. At my undergrad, I just sort of got stuff automatically sent to me on an impersonal listserv that everyone who registered in the department was set to.

Okay, so I would never ask my advisor about something like new student orientation in the department because he has nothing to do with planning it and won't be there anyway (none of the faculty save the dept chair and DGS attend). Just remember that administrative questions go to administrators.

As for how to address people, this varies widely. When I started my MA, I had a hard time addressing faculty as anything other than Dr. X. That has gradually changed. I only use "Dr. X" in emails sent to someone that I don't know personally or very well. When I email my advisor or anyone on my committee, it usually begins "Hi FirstName" because I'm on a first name basis with them all. (My department is very social so we hang out with faculty outside campus on a fairly regular basis. I've also been to the houses of everyone on my committee for social reasons at least once.) BUT, if undergrads are being copied on those emails, I will use Dr. X in the email. Hope that makes sense and isn't too confusing.

Thanks for telling me this. However, I prefer to be formal with my professors. It just doesn't feel right to me to address someone whose more accomplished and most of all, my boss, by the first name. My gut instinct tells me that it is always best to err on the side of formality, rather than risk offending them. Like Fez said, some professors really care about the formality. My undergrad research supervisor was very formal. Some teachers in the department are much more casual, but my supervisor made it clear, without even saying, just by the way he carried himself, that there will be strict respect for "the system" in his lab.

If the professor made it clear that he/she preferred an informal atmosphere, that's fine with me, but until that's for sure, best to be cautious. I think this differs by discipline. Maybe in software, there's a more casual atmosphere, but in physical sciences and the engineering disciplines related to the physical sciences, and with older professors, they want the hierarchy.

[rising_star]

Thanks for telling me this. However, I prefer to be formal with my professors. It just doesn't feel right to me to address someone whose more accomplished and most of all, my boss, by the first name. My gut instinct tells me that it is always best to err on the side of formality, rather than risk offending them.

This is interesting to me, in no small part because you rarely see people referring to their immediate supervisor as Mr. LastName in the real world (ie, nonacademic employment). In fact, even when I was in high school, I called my direct supervisors by their first names, and this was in an office setting. It might be worth thinking about why we all tend to think it's necessary to be formal in terms of forms of address when communicating with academics that are bosses but not with bosses in a non-academic setting.

[wine in coffee cups]

This is interesting to me, in no small part because you rarely see people referring to their immediate supervisor as Mr. LastName in the real world (ie, nonacademic employment). In fact, even when I was in high school, I called my direct supervisors by their first names, and this was in an office setting. It might be worth thinking about why we all tend to think it's necessary to be formal in terms of forms of address when communicating with academics that are bosses but not with bosses in a non-academic setting.

Agreed, I find this justification surprising and not in line with my experience. I've never addressed my bosses or clients by anything other than their first names, including in my current job where many hold PhDs. Medicine is the only non-academic field I know of in which people regularly use titles instead of first names to refer to supervisors/colleagues -- even lawyers rarely do outside of formal proceedings. I don't think this is actually an issue of supervisory relationships. I think it's really just people with a lot of education maintaining rather antiquated formalities.