Question about having a 'young' adviser

[sje]

I was wondering what everyone thought of undertaking a PhD in the lab of young researcher where I'd be his first student..? Is this a mistake or a treasure? I've gotten conflicting opinions. One professor told me that being the first graduate student to a young academic is important because a good portion of his career is built upon the success of his grad student(s), so if I were his first, he'd put a lot of effort into helping me in any way possible. Another told me that going into a lab of a researcher who hasn't produced any PhDs yet isn't a good idea in terms of job placement.

Any opinions on this?

[cajunmama]

I too am eager for opinions on this. While I'm not my advisor's first graduate student, my PhD program is very new so I am his first PhD student.

[fuzzylogician]

Both of those remarks you got are true. On the one hand, your success will be *very* important for your advisor so he'll invest more in you than other advisors would. He might also expect a high work pace and results pretty early, because his productivity will highly depend on yours, so you could end your PhD with a higher-than-usual publication rate. On the other hand, as a new advisor, he doesn't have a placement record and he may (will!) make rookie mistakes in advising occasionally. So it's more of a gamble than having a more established advisor - with greater risks and potentially greater rewards.

One good way of solving at least some of the potential problems that could arise from this advisor's inexperience is to have a second advisor/mentor who would also be involved in your education. You could use this person's experience and connections to resolve conflicts and to have better chances at the job market. Is that an option for you - is there a second person at the school who could fill this role?

[Dal PhDer]

I am my advisor's first PhD student, and I think like any student/advisor relationship- there's pros and cons.

One plus I have found is that because my advisor is so young and working towards TT, they're involved in a lot of projects, networking, conferences, etc. - lots of CV building activities. These activities gives his students a chance to participate in activitites outside their research project and gain skills that they might not have if they didn't have these opportunities. However, because they are so busy with TT, I have found that there is sometimes little time/opportunitites to meet, and/or quite a delay in feedback- so sometimes there's a delay in my progress because they're just too busy.

Another negative, as mentioned above, is that new advisors don't have experience with advising and will make mistakes and might not have the best skills to help you throughout your degree. I have personally found that lack of experience has been a huge negative, but I think that this is also a bit dependent on personality, relationship, and ego of the professor. If a new professor acknowledges that they are new and will need to learn HOW to advise and compensates for this in other ways (e.g., more involved, more feedback, more dialogue, etc) then this lack of experience probably won't be as negative to your PhD journey.

I think the best advice here (and one I wish I had done from the start) is to have a co-supervisor or mentor on your committee- one who is more experienced and willing to help you and your advisor through this process. If you can do this, I think it would be a positive for you and your supervisor- because it must be hard to learn how to supervisor and take on your first PhD student solo.

[ktel]

I did a summer research position with a new faculty member at my undergrad institution. He had supervised students in the past as a post-doc, so had some experience as an adviser. I thought the experience was great, as I was his only student, so I got to participate in all of his research. Had some very amazing opportunities as a result. Even though it was just a short period of time, I thought he did a great job advising me and I really enjoyed my time with him.

[Hopper]

Hi OP: as mentioned by others, it can be a plus and a minus. He will expect a lot out of you and you may gain a lot out of the relationship. The best thing would be to talk to him before you join permanently and ask what his expectations are and whether they match your goals. For example, getting several small papers vs. 1 major publication, committee choice and time for graduation. A piece of advice is that for your advisory committee, you should choose some senior professors who can advise your advisor in case of conflict and trouble. Good luck!

[sje]

Thank you all for the replies and advice. I will choose an advisory committee with great care and I'll be sure to choose individuals with greater experience than the principal advisor--provided, of course, this is the program that I end up going to.

[lewin]

I'm my advisor's third student and it has been great. He is motivated to publish and current on the field.

[Eigen]

I'm not first, but I'm pretty early in my advisors lineup. It's been a great experience for me, personally. Being young, he's a lot more attentive and remembers what grad school was like, and also has what I would consider a lot more "timely" advice on the job market, applying for positions, post-docs, fellowships, etc. than older faculty because he just got finished with the process!

It also means I've gotten a lot of experience in setting up a lab, protocols, grant writing, paper writing and so forth that I might not have in a more established lab.

On a personal level, we have a lot more in common, so we have a good relationship outside the lab as well- we've both been married about the same length of time, both have spouses that are/were about the same time behind us in PhD programs, etc. He and his wife have definitely been helpful to us in looking at the day-to-day problems of a two-body situation, as well as how best to handle it.

This isn't always the case, though- I've got friends working with other young faculty that have issues- too much micromanagement, want their grad students to be just like them, etc. And I've got friends working with older, established faculty that have either great relationships or issues. Long term, I think it doesn't matter so much whether your advisor is old or young, but rather how well you fit with them.

I also have friends on either end of the spectrum for graduation time- the first two from our research group graduated below average, and some others in "young" groups were way above average. Seems to be on the personality of the advisor- either they see the benefit in helping you get out the door so you can go on to be an independent research since they identify with you, or they feel the need to keep you around to help boost their research career, since they're just starting off. But again, this seems to be dependent on the individual rather than their age.

There are a couple of great topics on this same issue from the last year or so, you might find good advice there as well. Definitely some people who haven't posted here yet.

[Dal PhDer]

Long term, I think it doesn't matter so much whether your advisor is old or young, but rather how well you fit with them.

I couldn't agree more. In the end, I think it comes down to this and whether or not the advisor is good at what they do. Being good encompasses a range of qualities: being able to effectively get a student through their degree, being able to adapt to students' personalities and learning styles, being open for seeing your mistakes and learning from them, and encouraging a peer-peer communication between advisor and student- these are just some of the qualities.

I also think that it comes down to personal preference too...some students may love the way one professors is, while another might not.

[Tall Chai Latte]

I heard conflicting opinions on this matter as well. Like Eigen, I'm also not my advisor's first graduate student (but the second), so far my experience is both good and bad, but I consider this common -- nobody is perfect, advisors are learning how to be a good advisor, especially these young faculty. I second what Dal PhDer's comment, that how well you get along with your advisor depends on multiple factors. I don't think you need to avoid joining a young faculty's lab, or thinking they won't provide you with good job prospect. Rather, put 'people' before 'science'.

If you do join a new faculty's lab, remember that your PI is growing with you, and it could potentially be a beneficial process for both of you.

[Dal PhDer]

remember that your PI is growing with you, and it could potentially be a beneficial process for both of you.

completely agree!!

[wildviolet]

I agree with much of the advice here.

Another thing I would add is that it also depends on your advisor's advisee situation. In my case, my advisor's post-doc just accepted a TT position nearby. So I came in at the perfect time because he needs someone to pick up the two research projects the post-doc has been working on. My advisor is sending me away (via plane) next week to meet with a collaborator on one of the projects. Talking about jumping into the action!

As far as I know, he has only one other advisee, who is a second-year PhD student. And he has already told me that he would like to meet at least every other week to talk about ANYTHING related to the program, adjusting to the new surroundings, life, etc. He's been a full professor for a while and, although he may not feel the push to publish, he still has several research projects going on, and they are all collaborations with people from other universities, which may lead to significant networking connections for me. I feel like he's already looking out for me, even though I'm just his temp advisee until next year, when I decide if I want to stay with him or not. Also, he's super chill.

So, I wouldn't discount having a mature professor as an advisor. Perhaps the advisor-advisee relationship is like any other. Either the chemistry works, or it doesn't.

[romnickhudges]

I cannot say something relevant about your discussion guys but I'm always watching this discussion hoping that it would enlighten me more. I'm planning to enhance more my studies since I'm a newly grad and planning to take up my master's and hopefully right after my doctorate. I would really love to read discussion like this in order to sharpen my little knowledge on this matter.