HGSE Fall 2013

[EdYouKateOr]

I live in Cronkhite! Location is incredible. Meal plan is super convenient too. Also, they are completely renovating the place over the summer. You're all in luck haha *edit Anyone create a 2014 TIE Facebook Page?

So excited!! Was it super competitive to get in? Don't some rooms have private baths?

Definitely just completely abused the privilege of having a huge printer in my office and just printed out about 80 pages worth of class descriptions and course syllabuses. Whoops. 

I, oo, already have a list of "potential" classes". How are we ever supposed to choose just 8?!?!?! I also am interested in FEP!

[EdYouKateOr]

Which is bull. Harvard should be able to fully fund all of its education students. Why on earth would someone willingly go $65,000 or more in debt for an M.Ed degree? Seems like the most you'd make coming out of that program is 50-60,000, and that's most likely in a major city where the cost of living is extremely high.

Sadly, I make more than that now (too bad none of it is saved up!!!) ...think of it as an investment!

Edited March 22, 2013 by EdYouKateOr

[Lbessmer]

Thank you for bringing up this issue Sonic Youth, I think it is important to address.

 

It isn't hard to find critiques of Ed schools, they prepare practitioners for a job that seems a lot easier than it really is. Everyone has had teachers, and they have seen what they do day after day... or at least they think that they understand the life of a teacher. When people say that our schools aren't doing enough for our children, one of the first places they turn to are the Ed schools. Even our current Secretary of Education has made numerous statements about the failings of our nation's Ed schools, and that we need to raise our standards and improve our teacher education and our Ed research in order to stay relevant. When I had doubts about applying for a M.Ed or a M.A. in education, it was because of this daunting uphill battle, not because I would be making less money than I could in another field. Your info states that you are currently enrolled in a M.Ed, so I imagine that you are getting involved in Education for many of the same reasons that all of us (including myself) are pursuing an advanced degree.

 

It seems that you have two main worries about taking on debt for a degree from Harvard.

 

1st- that taking on debt to pay for an Ed degree is not comparable to degrees from other graduate schools because we will not have the same earning potential as graduates from other disciplines.

 

2nd- that "once we get to Cambridge" we will come to see that not all graduate programs are created equal.

 

In response to your first point: I disagree with the underlying premise that the reason to get a degree is to earn more money. I know that I am devoting my time and money to study something that I love, so that I can work in a field that I enjoy. I imagine that those pursuing a degree in medicine, law, business, and the arts and sciences are doing so for similiar reasons. However, if we choose to judge the value of a degree by median income, the case still is not clear cut. In the private sector, there are many alternatives to earning an MBA that will earn more money. There is a glut of people holding MBAs currently, and with the economic downturn, it means less of an advantage in both earnings and job security than was the case a few decades ago. There are also many studies about how there are now too many lawyers and too many doctors... and that many people graduating from these professional schools are unable to pay off their loans for a very long time. Again, I disagree with choosing finances as the sole deciding factor as to the value of a degree, and I think (perhaps unsurprisingly) that education is one of the most valuable things that a person can do with their time and energy.

 

As for your second point, no one is disputing that all grad programs are created equal. If they were, this admissions process would have been very different for all of us. We are excited by the prospect of attending well-regarded Ed schools that produce research that is used not only in the field, but in society as well. Harvard, (among others) is a leader in the field of Education, and its alumni go on to do amazing things. Attending the program is not a golden ticket, and no one thinks it is. We will have to work hard, make the most of the opportunity as we can, and hit the ground running after graduating. If other programs sneer at the Ed school as you seem to imply, so be it. 150 years ago, the field of medicine was not nearly as highly regarded. In 1880, there were only 11 history professors in the more than 800 colleges and unviersities in the US. Education as a field is much  younger than either of these professions, and I bet many of the people in this forum will do everything they can to make sure that the field continues to move forward.

[EdYouKateOr]

BTW...sorry so many posts at once...just got back in town from Spring Break! Looking forward to my Accepted Students Reception in Atlanta on Saturday!! anyone else attending???

[Edugy]

In response to your first point: I disagree with the underlying premise that the reason to get a degree is to earn more money. I know that I am devoting my time and money to study something that I love, so that I can work in a field that I enjoy. I imagine that those pursuing a degree in medicine, law, business, and the arts and sciences are doing so for similiar reasons. However, if we choose to judge the value of a degree by median income, the case still is not clear cut. In the private sector, there are many alternatives to earning an MBA that will earn more money. There is a glut of people holding MBAs currently, and with the economic downturn, it means less of an advantage in both earnings and job security than was the case a few decades ago. There are also many studies about how there are now too many lawyers and too many doctors... and that many people graduating from these professional schools are unable to pay off their loans for a very long time. Again, I disagree with choosing finances as the sole deciding factor as to the value of a degree, and I think (perhaps unsurprisingly) that education is one of the most valuable things that a person can do with their time and energy.

I think the point was that the ability to repay loans is much easier for Harvard business, medical, and law students because of higher salaries. Even if MBA salaries aren't what they were, an MBA from HBS will still demand top dollar, same for Harvard law. In terms of social value, I don't think there is a question that education is one of the most important fields, but the lack of compensation unfortunately turns some great minds towards other fields.

[FreedomInEducation]

In response to your first point: I disagree with the underlying premise that the reason to get a degree is to earn more money. I know that I am devoting my time and money to study something that I love, so that I can work in a field that I enjoy. I imagine that those pursuing a degree in medicine, law, business, and the arts and sciences are doing so for similiar reasons. However, if we choose to judge the value of a degree by median income, the case still is not clear cut. In the private sector, there are many alternatives to earning an MBA that will earn more money. There is a glut of people holding MBAs currently, and with the economic downturn, it means less of an advantage in both earnings and job security than was the case a few decades ago. There are also many studies about how there are now too many lawyers and too many doctors... and that many people graduating from these professional schools are unable to pay off their loans for a very long time. Again, I disagree with choosing finances as the sole deciding factor as to the value of a degree, and I think (perhaps unsurprisingly) that education is one of the most valuable things that a person can do with their time and energy.

When I read what Sonic Youth wrote, I did not in any way get that she was saying that the reason to get a degree is to earn more money, or that finances were the sole deciding factor as to the value of the degree. 

[CQE]

And Harvard wins their first NCAA Tournament game...EVER!

 

w00t

 

Go Crimson!

[FreedomInEducation]

Wow, Harvard won. Big upset!
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330800167

[EdYouKateOr]

Wow, Harvard won. Big upset! http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330800167'>http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330800167

Woo Hoo!

[ZeChocMoose]

One question though: what the heck are these people in public sector that you know doing that's causing them to scrounge to bring home 50K? I haven't interviewed for or seen a job that I feel qualified for in a while that pays south of 50 and I'm only two years out of school and don't have a master's yet. The lowest paying job on the data team at my organization pays more than that, and I know several people earning over 100 that are doing things I could see myself doing in 5-10 years. Have I been DRASTICALLY misled? 

 

I am actually pretty curious on what type of organization that you were or maybe still are working in, Sunshinegrl.  The salaries of your coworker seem high in my experience especially multiple people earning 100K.  Is this education research/policy work? 

 

I worked in education research (in an university) right after my master's degree and 50K was about average for an entry-level research position.  However, this was in a city with a high cost of living.  I also interviewed for similar type jobs where the salary was around 40K, but the cost of living was much, much lower.  100K was really unusual for my workplace -- unless you ended up as the director, but you would usually need more education than a master's degree and there is only one slot.  The most you could hope for at my previous place of employment was around 65 - 80K with a master's degree, but it would require you to take on a more administrative/supervisory role than strictly research and there were only two positions of this type.  Talking with people in similar types of jobs in other universities, our salary structures/expectations seemed very similar to theirs especially in areas with high costs of living.

[Hodges]

That was a crazy win last night - most brackets in America are now ridiculously busted -- most that I have seen had NM going to the Sweet 16 (a few Elite 8 and I've seen one with NM in the Final Four) - not anymore!

[Sunshinegrl456]

I am actually pretty curious on what type of organization that you were or maybe still are working in, Sunshinegrl.  The salaries of your coworker seem high in my experience especially multiple people earning 100K.  Is this education research/policy work? 

 

Thanks for the insight on the research salaries you've seen! 

 

I'm currently at large charter management organization. My role is on-site so really the only people I work directly with that are peaking 100 is the principal and the director operations (and even then, that varies from school to school). At the "network" (our slang for the people in supportive teams connected to the schools) such as the Business Information Systems, Data Strategy, and Operations teams each have multiple associate director and director roles that are hitting the higher salaries, not to mention the VP of each of these teams. Their direct subordinates, such as product specialists and analysts do end up in that 65-80 range you noted. The regional directors of operations and regional superintendents (of which there's about 5 each) all also are up there in terms of salary. Our top earners are obviously the co-CEOs who are wayyyyy up there in terms of salary (I'm a little scared of publicly naming numbers without permission), neither of whom have corporate backgrounds (I have a personal theory/hope that as the field expands in the next 10-15 years and the demand for analysts/researchers goes up, there will be more capacity to hire/train/produce strong people for these roles from within the field - that is to say, all the corporate switching to education is a temporary phenomenon due to a lack of internal development capacity because of how rapidly the field is growing currently). We also have an IT team, Team External Relations, Team Recruit, and a Finance team, but I have little to no clue what their hierarchies and salaries look like. 

 

In general, I've heard tell, and probably agree, that the money is especially good in charter schools so I recognize the paychecks I'm around probably are a little higher than your average person in education. I think your estimate of most people settling into 65-80 range is one I'd agree with, which honestly I have no qualms about - I grew up in a home where buying a gallon of milk was a luxury and have no sense of entitlement to hit six figures. My point yesterday was more in response  to my feelings about SonicYouth's remarks about educators' salaries and that while no one can deny paychecks are smaller in this field, that does not at all mean there aren't those who are in the range of those average L and B school salaries cited to and it does not take 20 years to get there. It might not be "average" but it's also not NOT out there. If that makes any sense

Edited March 22, 2013 by Sunshinegrl456

[CQE]

That was a crazy win last night - most brackets in America are now ridiculously busted -- most that I have seen had NM going to the Sweet 16 (a few Elite 8 and I've seen one with NM in the Final Four) - not anymore!

 

Yup.

 

Prior to the start of last night's game, one of the panelists said he had NM in the Final Four, too.

 

And as far as all this talk goes regarding debt, salary, etc...There are programs in place to assist people like us in paying down our debt, as well as eventually ridding ourselves of debt. Additionally, we all know that the more money one tends to make, the more money one tends to spend - thus the reason why people who make six figures have similar financial problems to those who only make $50k. In my opinion, and regardless of the amount of money you make, it's important to live below your means rather than above, or even just at the tippity-top, of your means. If you do that, then you're providing yourself with cushion to not only have some money for a rainy day, but to also maintain your retirement savings. On the other hand, if you're only stowing away a little bit of money a month for retirement on account of living at the top-end of your budget, what you believed to be those "retirement savings" will later go toward making ends meet as a result of a layoff or some other unforeseen circumstances.

 

Ultimately, one who makes $50k can stretch his/her dollar out a hell of a lot more than who makes $150k+ due to being smart with that money. There are also ways to manufacture money (counterfeiting FTW! jk, jk), similarly to how a baseball team can manufacture runs by stealing bases and putting on a squeeze or hit-and-run. But, most importantly, making wise financial decisions comes with doing your research and taking the time to plan. Foresight, in other words, is key.

 

Point is, the debt, at face-value, sounds awful. But, if you do research, some number-crunching, and evaluate best-and-worse cast scenarios, then you'll have an understanding of what to do in the present and future because you'll have a plan A, B, and C ahead of time.

 

At the end of the day, money, like life, is what you make of it. That's really all there is to it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by CQE

[askamy]

Somehow now i am more interested in the Basketball updates here than in the on going debate on Bschool vs Ed school salaries, treatment etc etc.

 

I recently started following NBA (I'm not from the U.S and moved here abt 1.5 yrs ago) and love it. Looking fwd to cheering for the Crimson during a match in Boston. 

Edited March 22, 2013 by askamy

[CQE]

Somehow i am more interested in the Basketball updates here than in the on going debate on Bschool vs Ed school salaries, treatment etc etc.

 

I recently started following NBA (I'm not from the U.S and moved here abt 1.5 yrs ago) and love it. Looking fwd to cheering for the Crimson during a match in Boston. 

 

I hear ya on the first part.

 

I've always been more of a fan of NCAA Basketball than the NBA's product. However, now that I'll be living in Boston, I'm definitely going to pay a little more attention to the NBA (the Celtics, in particular ). I might even have to join an NBA fantasy league, too.

 

And while we're on the topic of sports and Boston, I highly encourage everyone to take a tour of Fenway. If possible, get Louis to be your tour guide. Just be prepared for him to show off his bling!

 

Edited March 22, 2013 by CQE

[askamy]

Hey, thanks. I will definitely take a tour. I also plan to join a NBA fantasy league but as of now i'm trying to follow NBA more often. 

 

My husband is a huge Clippers fan. I like them too.

 

When i was deciding between TC and HGSE i was also thinking which NBA team would i like to cheer for, Knicks or Celtics..lol!!  

[CQE]

Hey, thanks. I will definitely take a tour. I also plan to join a NBA fantasy league but as of now i'm trying to follow NBA more often. 

 

My husband is a huge Clippers fan. I like them too.

 

When i was deciding between TC and HGSE i was also thinking which NBA team would i like to cheer for, Knicks or Celtics..lol!!  

 

LOL, nice.

 

It's definitely fun to snag a couple of hometown guys to follow for your fantasy team.

 

I knew I'd be in Philly or Boston, so I drafted a couple of Flyers and Bruins players to specifically watch and root for when watching both teams play.

 

I used to be a huge Chicago Cubs fan, but I've since lost interest in baseball on account of the lack of parity. Another thing that's contributed to my decreased interest in MLB is the length of the season. As I've grown older, I've obviously gained more responsibility. Therefore, I can't watch the number of games I used to. I might be able to watch 25-40 games a year...out of 162 games. It just makes me feel detached from the team, in my opinion, because I'm only able to watch 25% of the team's game in a season. It's just more of a chore, you know? With the NBA and NHL, you have anywhere from 2-4 games a week, which is a lot more doable. And, obviously, the NFL is the least demanding from a fan perspective due to there just being one game a week on what's typically an "off day" for most people with jobs.

 

But now that I'll be in Boston, I'll definitely make more of an effort to keep up with MLB and the Sox, specifically.

[RobotinBlue]

I've been gone from the forum for a bit, but has anyone heard back from the financial aid office? I'm super excited about receiving that crimson packet in the mail, but growing increasingly nervous about finances and debt. I am feeling a bit guilty about possibly turning down my paid Ph.D program offer soon to go into debt, haha.

Edited March 22, 2013 by RobotinBlue

[FreedomInEducation]

HGSE finally gave me access to the matriculation website today.

On the student directory, it says: "As an admitted student, you have the option of sharing your contact information with other admitted students by checking off the appropriate box on the online response form"

Can someone tell me where this online response form is found?


 

[EdYouKateOr]

HGSE finally gave me access to the matriculation website today. On the student directory, it says: "As an admitted student, you have the option of sharing your contact information with other admitted students by checking off the appropriate box on the online response form" Can someone tell me where this online response form is found?  

The link to accept admission and pay your deposit was in the original email, you may need them to send you that link since you were accepted last year. I can't find it on the pre-matric site...

[EdYouKateOr]

I've been gone from the forum for a bit, but has anyone heard back from the financial aid office? I'm super excited about receiving that crimson packet in the mail, but growing increasingly nervous about finances and debt. I am feeling a bit guilty about possibly turning down my paid Ph.D program offer soon to go into debt, haha.

Though I still can't blast it from the chimney tops, I would like to start a fundraising campaign. Gonna ask 600 of my closest friends and family to donate $100 each! (Or 6000 at $10!!!)

[HigherEd2013]

Yup, between letters and scholarship, ive tried 46 funding opportunities. Maybe something will happen?

[EdYouKateOr]

Just got in from my admitted student reception! Walking on cloud nine...even more excited now! (If that's even possible!)

Edited March 23, 2013 by EdYouKateOr

[CQE]

Nice, Ed!

 

What all went down?

 

BTW, as a reminder for everyone, Harvard plays tonight at 5 CST on TNT to move on to the Sweet 16. As of right now, they are 10.5 point underdogs to Arizona, which is around what they were against New Mexico. Whatever. Bring it!

Edited March 23, 2013 by CQE

[FreedomInEducation]

The link to accept admission and pay your deposit was in the original email, you may need them to send you that link since you were accepted last year. I can't find it on the pre-matric site...

 

Thank you.