Labs full of pretty girls

[Jvcxk]

This is kind of a weird question, but I'd like your opinions (and hopefully, a confirmation that I'm just paranoid)-

Browsing through lab pages, they usually have a lab group picture. Now, I've come across a couple of these pictures where the first thing that jumped out at me was the sea of really attractive women.

As a woman myself, I worry that "appearance" is sometimes a more persuasive factor than it should be.

Now, I'm sure that all of the women in these labs are highly qualified and deserve to be there BUT as we all know- there are lots of qualified people who are turned away every year. Should I be at all concerned when I come across a (male-run) lab that looks like a modeling agency? I don't want to spend the next x years of my life dealing with awkward sexual undertones or whatever.

Pleaseeeeee telll me I'm wrong.

[Quant_Liz_Lemon]

I'd ask the grad students when you interview for this lab.

[Jvcxk]

That's a great idea.

Now I just hope I can phrase such a question diplomatically enough.

[firstsight]

Haha, just wanted to chip in you are NOT the only one who has noticed this phenomenon. It'd be an interesting subject to research, really -- if, all other things being questionably equal (apps are so freakin' subjective), physical attractiveness becomes a deciding factor. Of course, applications are ranked for interviews in the absence of such information, but.... ahem. I don't know. I consider myself more attractive than average, but not model quality like some of these labs have!

So... yeah. I'm with you on this. I'll probably ask something like this in a casual/offhand way... since you don't want to be known as "that one girl who felt intimidated by all the super pretty people". If you figure out a genius way to ask about it, drop me a line!

[DarwinAG]

I have certainly noticed this phenomenon as well, but I am of the opinion that it matters less than you suspect.

I will mull over it today in terms of figuring out a subtle way to ask this question.

[Chai_latte]

I'm silly, so I'd just say jokingly, "omigosh...this is like, the supermodel lab. I'm going to need some extra mascara in this department". I'd gauge the response at that point. The preferences (if there are any) of certain professors might be alluded to if you keep things light.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Chai_latte

[CBrown]

Totally disagree, in my department there are people of varying attractiveness levels. Don't let that of all things get to you it isn't one of the qualifications!

[DarwinAG]

I really don't have a good answer for you either. The sense of humor thing seems like a good idea, but even that still seems like a bit of a gamble.

I think it's one of those things that you just have to give the benefit of the doubt and not address unless it becomes problematic.

[kaister]

I would just talk with graduate students in general about how they like working in the lab and the mentorship relationship they have with the PI. Generally you want to know how the lab members interact with each other, if it's a friendly environment, and from there I think you can insinuate if there's any tension. Talk to more than one lab member. I wouldn't be too worried about looks. I'm more concerned with the implications of good looking groups, such as "clique-y" behavior. Correlating cliques and good looks is very presumptuous, but it's something that comes to mind when scoping out potential labs.

[lewin]

It's probably because research shows that attractive people are smarter, more conscientious, and harder workers than unattractive people (Dion & Berscheid, 1972). So they're more likely to get into grad school.

(I am kidding. That reference is to the halo effect.)

[bpsydme]

I honestly wouldn't make any facetious comments towards how beautiful the girls are, or their mascara. As a woman myself working in a lab and has been subjected to those type of biases/comments, it is very offensive no matter how you put it. Don't give them the chance to feel like you are belittling their accomplishments just because they are good looking.

I think that if they have had any type of experiences with uncomfortable comments by members of the lab (or by their male PI), they will probably show it in their language, demeanor, or otherwise.

While lewin00 is joking, I do think that it is true that prettier people are viewed more positively most of the time. After interviewing dozens of undergrads as an RA, I find myself subjected to this bias even if I don't want to. I also don't think it is by coincidence that the two male grad students in my lab are better than average looking, tall, and well-composed. It is what it is.

[Jvcxk]

It's probably because research shows that attractive people are smarter, more conscientious, and harder workers than unattractive people (Dion & Berscheid, 1972). So they're more likely to get into grad school.

(I am kidding. That reference is to the halo effect.)

Hahahahahahahaha thanks for a good laugh. Halo effect definitely crossed my mind when I first posted this.

To everyone-

It's interesting how the interpretation of the question varies.

I definitely don't think that majority of professors take attractiveness into account (beyond a clean, professional appearance).

I'm not concerned that my looks will keep me out of Professor Creepy's lab, I'd be more concerned that Professor Creepy's perception of his students is...inappropriate, and whatever else follows from that.

I guess I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and stick to framing questions about the social atmosphere in a more general way.

DarwinAG,

I do somewhat disagree with you in that, if I wait until it becomes a problem than it may well be too late (though I guess this depends on the individual program's policy about changing mentors, the availability of mentors, etc).

[Jvcxk]

One additional thought-

If it IS the case that students in the lab feel that their professor has this type of attitude- how likely are they to admit it? I know that if it was me, I would feel somewhat embarrassed and wouldn't really want to advertise it.

So, even if asked directly, they might not admit to it unless they're willing to put the future of an unknown student over their own pride.

[DarwinAG]

DarwinAG,

I do somewhat disagree with you in that, if I wait until it becomes a problem than it may well be too late (though I guess this depends on the individual program's policy about changing mentors, the availability of mentors, etc).

I just mean to say that you should attempt to enter the situation by minimizing this bias as much as possible. Otherwise, it may turn into a self-fullfillping prophecy (I am not entirely sure if I am referencing to the right phenomenon) and innocous comments or behavior get turned into something more than they are. This is a very sensitive and important issue, and I do not mean to downplay its significance. The lines are incredibly fuzzy, and you would know better when it has been crossed. You will become part of the social dynamic, but keep in mind that having this vigilance for such type of behavior will influence the way others conduct themselves around you.

I do think you have hit on the right approach by giving the lab and professor the benefit of the doubt. This is how I approach most academic and professional situations.

[DarwinAG]

One additional thought-

If it IS the case that students in the lab feel that their professor has this type of attitude- how likely are they to admit it? I know that if it was me, I would feel somewhat embarrassed and wouldn't really want to advertise it.

So, even if asked directly, they might not admit to it unless they're willing to put the future of an unknown student over their own pride.

I can see them being less likely to admit it. If the professor has had a good track record of graduating students then it may be less likely that there are any problems. I know Universities are on top of this type of issue.

But I revert back to my original advice: Give the professor and the lab the benefit of the doubt.

[carlyhylton]

But I revert back to my original advice: Give the professor and the lab the benefit of the doubt.

That and look hot for your interviews!

Joking

Ish... : /

[Soc Cog]

Binders full of labs full of pretty girls

[carlyhylton]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Soc Cog" data-cid="1057888251" data-time="1356049465"><p>

Binders full of labs full of pretty girls</p></blockquote>

Hahahahahahaha!

Edited December 21, 2012 by carlyhylton