Jvcxk Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 This is kind of a weird question, but I'd like your opinions (and hopefully, a confirmation that I'm just paranoid)- Browsing through lab pages, they usually have a lab group picture. Now, I've come across a couple of these pictures where the first thing that jumped out at me was the sea of really attractive women. As a woman myself, I worry that "appearance" is sometimes a more persuasive factor than it should be. Now, I'm sure that all of the women in these labs are highly qualified and deserve to be there BUT as we all know- there are lots of qualified people who are turned away every year. Should I be at all concerned when I come across a (male-run) lab that looks like a modeling agency? I don't want to spend the next x years of my life dealing with awkward sexual undertones or whatever. Pleaseeeeee telll me I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quant_Liz_Lemon Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'd ask the grad students when you interview for this lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jvcxk Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 That's a great idea. Now I just hope I can phrase such a question diplomatically enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstsight Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Haha, just wanted to chip in you are NOT the only one who has noticed this phenomenon. It'd be an interesting subject to research, really -- if, all other things being questionably equal (apps are so freakin' subjective), physical attractiveness becomes a deciding factor. Of course, applications are ranked for interviews in the absence of such information, but.... ahem. I don't know. I consider myself more attractive than average, but not model quality like some of these labs have! So... yeah. I'm with you on this. I'll probably ask something like this in a casual/offhand way... since you don't want to be known as "that one girl who felt intimidated by all the super pretty people". If you figure out a genius way to ask about it, drop me a line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinAG Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I have certainly noticed this phenomenon as well, but I am of the opinion that it matters less than you suspect. I will mull over it today in terms of figuring out a subtle way to ask this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chai_latte Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) I'm silly, so I'd just say jokingly, "omigosh...this is like, the supermodel lab. I'm going to need some extra mascara in this department". I'd gauge the response at that point. The preferences (if there are any) of certain professors might be alluded to if you keep things light. Edited December 19, 2012 by Chai_latte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrown Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Totally disagree, in my department there are people of varying attractiveness levels. Don't let that of all things get to you it isn't one of the qualifications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinAG Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I really don't have a good answer for you either. The sense of humor thing seems like a good idea, but even that still seems like a bit of a gamble. I think it's one of those things that you just have to give the benefit of the doubt and not address unless it becomes problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaister Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I would just talk with graduate students in general about how they like working in the lab and the mentorship relationship they have with the PI. Generally you want to know how the lab members interact with each other, if it's a friendly environment, and from there I think you can insinuate if there's any tension. Talk to more than one lab member. I wouldn't be too worried about looks. I'm more concerned with the implications of good looking groups, such as "clique-y" behavior. Correlating cliques and good looks is very presumptuous, but it's something that comes to mind when scoping out potential labs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewin Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's probably because research shows that attractive people are smarter, more conscientious, and harder workers than unattractive people (Dion & Berscheid, 1972). So they're more likely to get into grad school. (I am kidding. That reference is to the halo effect.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsydme Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I honestly wouldn't make any facetious comments towards how beautiful the girls are, or their mascara. As a woman myself working in a lab and has been subjected to those type of biases/comments, it is very offensive no matter how you put it. Don't give them the chance to feel like you are belittling their accomplishments just because they are good looking. I think that if they have had any type of experiences with uncomfortable comments by members of the lab (or by their male PI), they will probably show it in their language, demeanor, or otherwise. While lewin00 is joking, I do think that it is true that prettier people are viewed more positively most of the time. After interviewing dozens of undergrads as an RA, I find myself subjected to this bias even if I don't want to. I also don't think it is by coincidence that the two male grad students in my lab are better than average looking, tall, and well-composed. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jvcxk Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's probably because research shows that attractive people are smarter, more conscientious, and harder workers than unattractive people (Dion & Berscheid, 1972). So they're more likely to get into grad school. (I am kidding. That reference is to the halo effect.) Hahahahahahahaha thanks for a good laugh. Halo effect definitely crossed my mind when I first posted this. To everyone- It's interesting how the interpretation of the question varies. I definitely don't think that majority of professors take attractiveness into account (beyond a clean, professional appearance). I'm not concerned that my looks will keep me out of Professor Creepy's lab, I'd be more concerned that Professor Creepy's perception of his students is...inappropriate, and whatever else follows from that. I guess I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and stick to framing questions about the social atmosphere in a more general way. DarwinAG, I do somewhat disagree with you in that, if I wait until it becomes a problem than it may well be too late (though I guess this depends on the individual program's policy about changing mentors, the availability of mentors, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jvcxk Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 One additional thought- If it IS the case that students in the lab feel that their professor has this type of attitude- how likely are they to admit it? I know that if it was me, I would feel somewhat embarrassed and wouldn't really want to advertise it. So, even if asked directly, they might not admit to it unless they're willing to put the future of an unknown student over their own pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinAG Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 DarwinAG, I do somewhat disagree with you in that, if I wait until it becomes a problem than it may well be too late (though I guess this depends on the individual program's policy about changing mentors, the availability of mentors, etc). I just mean to say that you should attempt to enter the situation by minimizing this bias as much as possible. Otherwise, it may turn into a self-fullfillping prophecy (I am not entirely sure if I am referencing to the right phenomenon) and innocous comments or behavior get turned into something more than they are. This is a very sensitive and important issue, and I do not mean to downplay its significance. The lines are incredibly fuzzy, and you would know better when it has been crossed. You will become part of the social dynamic, but keep in mind that having this vigilance for such type of behavior will influence the way others conduct themselves around you. I do think you have hit on the right approach by giving the lab and professor the benefit of the doubt. This is how I approach most academic and professional situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarwinAG Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 One additional thought- If it IS the case that students in the lab feel that their professor has this type of attitude- how likely are they to admit it? I know that if it was me, I would feel somewhat embarrassed and wouldn't really want to advertise it. So, even if asked directly, they might not admit to it unless they're willing to put the future of an unknown student over their own pride. I can see them being less likely to admit it. If the professor has had a good track record of graduating students then it may be less likely that there are any problems. I know Universities are on top of this type of issue. But I revert back to my original advice: Give the professor and the lab the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlyhylton Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 But I revert back to my original advice: Give the professor and the lab the benefit of the doubt. That and look hot for your interviews! Joking Ish... : / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soc Cog Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Binders full of labs full of pretty girls Queen of Kale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlyhylton Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Soc Cog" data-cid="1057888251" data-time="1356049465"><p> Binders full of labs full of pretty girls</p></blockquote> Hahahahahahaha! Edited December 21, 2012 by carlyhylton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now