Penn State Admits and the Sandusky Scandal

[sr0304]

i'm not going to lie: even after being admitted to an amazing Communication program with great funding, I have no idea if I can bring myself to accept. There's the Sandusky scandal, and there's the University's involvement, and there's the ongoing defense of Joe Paterno, and there's the library named after someone complicit with the sexual abuse of countless people. And there's alum (that will remained unnamed) from the comm department that actually spend their energy feeling sorry for themselves rather than focusing their expertise on the questions at hand. and this is the problem with Happy Valley culture--they live in a small world.

 

 

Does anyone else feel this way?

[uromastyx]

Personally, I can't imagine that the politics of this matter are idiosyncratic.

If it's a great program then I wouldn't decline their offer solely on the knowledge of this scandal.

[sr0304]

Personally, I can't imagine that the politics of this matter are idiosyncratic.

If it's a great program then I wouldn't decline their offer solely on the knowledge of this scandal.

 

i'm having a difficult time interpreting your first line...my concern is that the politics are not in the particular, but overwhelming the University as a whole, as in even the Dept. i'm interested in cannot escape it. and I have a difficult time downplaying the reality that these events have indeed effected the University as a whole...

and i wouldn't shrug off the scandal so quick--it speaks to whether or not the environment will be happy. maybe it's personal preference, what we do and do not care about, but i'm unsure with how i'll feel when the students I teach are late to class because they were attending a "Defend Joe Pa" meeting. make sense?

I don't need anyone to tell me what i should do in this forum--i will figure this out in my case within my own circle. my intention with this post is to perhaps spark a conversation about how to confront--and whether it is or is not worth confronting--Penn State's newly tarnished (and very tarnished) reputation. remember, their accreditation was officially put on notice.

Edit--Why am I talking about reputation!? ugg...that's my issue with the alum--So much time mourning the reputation without enough time being spent on how to interpret the events and learn from it (thereby letting the reputation, whatever that means, take care of itself).

Edited February 17, 2013 by sr0304

[uromastyx]

I don't need anyone to tell me what i should do in this forum--i will figure this out in my case within my own circle. my intention with this post is to perhaps spark a conversation about how to confront--and whether it is or is not worth confronting--Penn State's newly tarnished (and very tarnished) reputation. remember, their accreditation was officially put on notice.

 

This is precisely what I did.

I'm not in your shoes. If it's put a sour taste in your mouth then that's the crux.

But to be under the impression that the politics of Penn State (as a structural institution!) are isolated is a bit strange for me. This is not to say that it isn't reason for concern.

Penn State is an excellent school, with excellent departments and excellent faculty. Just like any other.

[G2A]

I think some people put more weight on these types of questions than others. You obviously have very strong feelings and perhaps you would not be happy there. However, I must ask: did you not think about this before you applied? The scandal was known well before even the earliest of application deadlines.

 

Again, these factors are very individual. If I were to apply to Penn State, I would not factor in Sandusky. On the other hand, I would never attend Boston College because of political reasons. I doubt that many people would give my reasons any thought when they apply there.

[ruud9]

I think you are giving too much importance to the little things. Sometimes it is better to look at the big picture. If the program is good going ahead with it would be the best thing. It is better As far as the school is concerned, Penn State is a great school. Happy Valley (State College) is pretty much a safe place like any other area near a University.

 

Thanks,

ruud9.

[TeaGirl]

From what I can tell, the assistant coach was indicted for 45 counts, Paterno was fired along with some other high up people who shared responsibility, and the board of trustees forced the president to resign. The football team was also handed punishment from the NCAA with vacating their wins for the previous 11 years, banning them from the bowl for the next 4, fining them for $60m, and reducing their scholarships. Are there additional details that I'm missing?

 

Given all this, I'm not sure why you would have a problem with the university as a body, considering that at least on the surface, the individuals who were responsible are being held accountable by the board and other policy makers in the university, and punished. I guess you can't force the football crazy young undergrads to see what's really important, but really, are you going to need to approve the political and moral views of every student you teach? They can think what they like, learn from life what they do, and be expected to fulfill their responsibilities in your TA/student relationship without excuses. In the end, you are getting a degree from a specific department and university, and working with scholars who likely abhor and were as shocked by what happened as you are. I wouldn't judge them by the actions of those in the athletic dept.

 

As far as the culture or the colleagues are concerned, then I think that's a different topic. Those are things one evaluates going into any program and compatibility with those is pretty important whether one prefers a more isolated community or a big city culture. If you don't like them then that's one thing, but if you love everything about the department including the people and the surrounding area of the university, but have a problem with the scandal, then that's a personal decision one would have to make I guess.

[queenleblanc]

The only issue I would be concerned with as far as Penn State goes, is the accreditation piece that was mentioned.  If they are at risk of losing it, I would not necessarily take the gamble of attending the institution.  If there is no risk to their academic accreditation, as in, the "slap on the wrist" as far as the academia who helped to cover up the scandal but their actual teaching / structure is fine ... then it might be worth the risk IF the program / department is truly great.  

 

I also come from an undergrad and a previous graduate degree from UNC Chapel Hill.  There was a scandal with the football team a few years ago regarding supposedly fake classes.  I have a deep love and appreciation for that university.  I actually took a class in the department that supposedly offered fake classes, and let me tell you, NOTHING about that class was fake.  I was IN classes with basketball and football players who were ON SCHOLARSHIP, and nothing was fake about those classes.  We studied in the same UG library, went to the same university writing center for help/advice, etc.  My education was a challenge and I am proud of the GPA I worked my tail off to earn.  So, my experience tells me that while there were some things going on that were wrong and academically despicable in a few VERY individual cases, that's not the experience of 99.99% of students at the university, undergraduate or otherwise.  So, I applied for this graduate program as one of my top choices.  I would absolutely be honored to get in.

 

Perhaps that is another perspective to consider regarding Penn State, if you could see it from that view. 

 

Best of luck to those making decisions!  I'm still waiting to hear back. 

Edited February 17, 2013 by kcald716

[VBD]

The whole issue with Penn State was that higher-ups shielded their eyes from it. Some knew about it and chose not follow through on disciplinary action, leading to more preventable actions. The students are blindly in love with the coach JoePa who is one of the higher-ups which evidence DOES prove knew about it. The administrators tolerated it because football brings PennState an INSANE amount of money. 

 

That being said.. you are not studying "Football-ology" It doesn't affect you directly. If you are concerned about the administrators being in cahoots with other crime, many administrators have lost their job/power and/or been replaced. However, not all, so that might bother you a bit. I just don't get the results for PennState English PhD where SO MANY mention the scandal. 

 

Funding may be an issue, it may not, it really depends on your department. Since it's a public school, a lot of your financial coverage is TA-ship and RA-ships, and I'm not sure how much that ties in with University relations, if even at all. Then again there is outside funding options, right?

 

The bottom line is this. Does it bother you, even a tiny hidden nagging feeling? If so, don't do it. I've had friends who go along with a program despite that tiny nagging feeling and it always ends up bad. That feeling ends up feeding other reasons why they don't like where they are, almost like they start looking for it. If you are absolutely positively in LOVE and that nagging feeling is fleeing by the second, then by all means accept and don't look back! Good luck on your decision

[selecttext]

You're only punishing yourself.

[GuitarSlayer]

Unlike others here, I think you are giving appropriate weight to that question.  When you go to conferences, people will give each other a look when they hear the name "Penn State."  Your name will be connected with theirs -- in 10 years, when you're done, people might ask you, "Hey, were you there when...?"

 

The problem with Penn State is the overwhelming football culture that trumps all things.  The NCAA is trying to break it, but they are meeting a lot of resistance - students and adults both remain in denial.  The culture there is pervasive -- I am a Yankee from New York who went to school in PA for undergrad who is living in Texas at the moment, and Penn State is/was Texas North as far as the all-consuming football culture.   You may not be studying football, but you will be dealing with students and faculty that will be telling you those kids were lying, that Paterno did nothing wrong, and that the media was against them. 

 

Here's what it boils down to:  Is Penn State your number one?  Is Penn State your only fully funded offer?  If the answer to either one of these questions is yes, then you do have a decision to make.  If the answers to both of these is "no," then there is no dilemma. 

[selecttext]

When you go to conferences, people will give each other a look when they hear the name "Penn State." 

 

That is very unlikely. Academic types at a conference are hardly so reactionary. It is still a top school known for research excellence. Their faculty and students are certainly not pariahs at a conference. And certainly their colleagues do not assume that they are somehow implicated in a pedophilia cover up. 

Edited February 17, 2013 by selecttext

[ion_exchanger]

I think that you bring up a valid point, but in the end you have to do what's best for you. We have to remember, this is something that affects curent students, prospective students, as well as alumni. When alumni share their alma mater as Penn State, whether they graduated 2 years or 20 years ago, they are met with the same response. No matter where you go, there can always be a scandal that happens after you graduate, that can elicit the same response. 3 years after I graduated from my college, a sophomore was murdered in the dorm by a roommate. That's something that is now associated with my University. Maybe this is easier for me because I am not considering enrolling in the program, but if the academics were a great fit for me, I would push past the unfortunate incidents of those who are in no way affiliated with my academic department. I think that on some level everyone knows that you can't make it a reflection on the students that attend the school, that would be extremely unfair.

 

You have the benefit of not being affiliated with the University when the scandal broke, so you are not as personally affected by it, so you can enroll more focused. If your POI or department are still that affected by it, and you think it will hinder your educational career, then absolutely I believe that it is a serious cause for concern and you should look elsewhere.

Edited February 17, 2013 by ion_exchanger

[Chai_latte]

I only glanced some of the comments, but it seems like I'll probably be swimming upstream here.  I, personally, would pass.  I've long recognized that Penn State has great programs (duh!).  However, the school is not one that I'd feel comfortable attending.  Pre-Sandusky, I had heard from a number of (reliable) people about tensions in certain departments and on the campus as a whole (one of which made it to the New York Times some years ago).  While I was shocked to learn of the Sandusky scandal, it reinforced why PSU would not be a good fit for me - for any course of study.

Academics are important and so is fit/atmosphere.  If this really bothers you, as it seems to, I think you'd do well to consider your other options.  If, however, one's only concern is people whispering every time they hear the name Penn State, that too shall pass.  And really, those whisperers would make better use of their time whispering about the school's strong programs instead. 

[TakeruK]

I do not know of this scandal other than what was just posted in this thread. It's definitely a personal decision whether or not one would consider these points in making a decision, and I'd encourage people to do what feels right to them.

 

To me, I don't think that would affect my decisions at all. I feel that there is a huge change from being a grad student and an undergrad student. At both of my grad schools, I chose to be mostly disconnected from the rest of the campus. The only thing that really mattered was things happening in my department and in my building. I couldn't care less that the entire Queen's Music program was suspended for a year (perhaps more) due to very scandalous things happening in the band. Well, that's not true, I felt that what happened was very wrong and I feel very bad for all the victims. But even though the story made national headlines, I really doubt that scandal will make people think any less of the degree I ended up getting. For example, there was the scandal at MIT with an admissions officer (I think?) and that Political Science class at Harvard. When I meet people from these schools, I don't even connect these events with the particular people I meet. I know it's really unlikely that the person I just met is actually involved in the scandal.

 

From the other point of view, I was sad that Queen's Music had a bad scandal. But I did not feel responsible or connected to the action in any way. The only connection I felt to the event was that we were both students at the same school. But it's the same if something horrible happened involving another person living in the same city as me -- e.g. the "Stanley Cup Riots" in Vancouver, BC. I felt sad that people destroyed my hometown but when I meet people from other places, as far as I know, people don't think "oh that guy is from that rioting city" and I don't feel the need to apologize on behalf of my city or anything like that. 

 

So, if the scandal I heard was about my actual department and/or involved things that would directly impact me, then I would factor that into my considerations. But an entire school is a huge organization. As a grad student, I have very little interaction with the rest of the school (probably the only time I even interact with people outside of my department are when I'm at campus-wide graduate student events or meetings etc.) In addition, I think the reputation of your particular program/department is far more important than the reputation of the school. U of X might have a terrible reputation overall but if Dept. Y there is one of the best in the nation, then it's still a good place to go (and the only thing people at conferences / hiring committees will really care about).

[selecttext]

 the whole notion of pride for one's university is completely foreign and silly to me.

[sr0304]

 the whole notion of pride for one's university is completely foreign and silly to me.

hence the concern expressed in this thread.--when does pride go to far, compromise the integrity of an institution, and throw you to question your potential happiness in being a part of that institution?

i don't think anyone here is interested in pep rallies when deciding where to go for a PhD.

[HappyValley]

The accreditation warning was lifted months ago.

The student body just raised $12.3 million for pediatric cancer. Sounds like a terrible "culture" if you will.

Look, I'm not here to give you reasons why you should attend Penn State. In fact, after reading every single reply in this thread, I HIGHLY encourage you to go somewhere else. You are clearly uneducated on the events surrounding the Sandusky incident and using that as a basis for making a life decision. Educate yourself on this matter. Don't come to a forum and ask for advice from people who also have no idea what they're talking about. As someone who follows every angle of the story, not a single poster in this thread has any idea what they're talking about.

One poster pointed out above the it was PROVEN that Joe Paterno covered up for a pedophile. I would like to know where that information was found. Everything has been pure speculation thus far.

I thought you people did your homework.

Not to beat a dead horse, Penn State isn't for you.

[VBD]

 However, the school is not one that I'd feel comfortable attending.  Pre-Sandusky, I had heard from a number of (reliable) people about tensions in certain departments and on the campus as a whole (one of which made it to the New York Times some years ago). 

Could you elaborate? If not, that's ok, I just think I fail at searching the New York Times site. 

 

The accreditation warning was lifted months ago.

The student body just raised $12.3 million for pediatric cancer. Sounds like a terrible "culture" if you will.

Look, I'm not here to give you reasons why you should attend Penn State. In fact, after reading every single reply in this thread, I HIGHLY encourage you to go somewhere else. You are clearly uneducated on the events surrounding the Sandusky incident and using that as a basis for making a life decision. Educate yourself on this matter. Don't come to a forum and ask for advice from people who also have no idea what they're talking about. As someone who follows every angle of the story, not a single poster in this thread has any idea what they're talking about.

One poster pointed out above the it was PROVEN that Joe Paterno covered up for a pedophile. I would like to know where that information was found. Everything has been pure speculation thus far.

I thought you people did your homework.

Not to beat a dead horse, Penn State isn't for you.

Happy, half of my graduating class in high school attended PennState. (Heck, I even applied there for undergrad) I have multiple family members AND friends who worked/work there. I also went to undergrad with a lot of graduate students currently at PennState. And I agree it's a good institution. And I HAVE done my homework. A lot of the information I've gathered come from them. There is a lot of (circumstantial and hearsay evidence) that JoePa knew about it in 1998. A simple google search gives you that much. Regardless, it's the guiltiness of a dead man (RIP) so it's almost a moot point. The point I was making was that regardless of his guiltiness other high-ups who were involved in covering it up, and those people have abdicated or lost their position or been replaced, so it's almost a whole new place. If you couldn't tell, I was saying a pro for saying yes to PennState.

Yes, congratulations on the PennState students for THON, that's a lot of money for charity. Cheers. (Still it speaks to the hugely herdist mentality (for example of said mentality, look up riot and JoePa, some students didn't even know what they were rioting for) that's prevalent on the campus. You MUST know about THON or talk about it if you're a PennState student.. etc., Whatever, it's great for PennState, for the students and great for cancer research!)

[Deadmeat]

I got accepted to the Engineering Ph.D. program and I'm going to go there. Go to the Penn State sub reddit : http://www.reddit.com/r/PennStateUniversity/

 

I'm proud to be chanting WE ARE! for the next few years in graduate school. I got accepted to higher ranked programs, but Penn State was the perfect fit for me. If you are so worried don't go there, but I think you would be missing out and shortsighted. 

Edited February 18, 2013 by Deadmeat

[sr0304]

The accreditation warning was lifted months ago.

The student body just raised $12.3 million for pediatric cancer. Sounds like a terrible "culture" if you will.

Look, I'm not here to give you reasons why you should attend Penn State. In fact, after reading every single reply in this thread, I HIGHLY encourage you to go somewhere else. You are clearly uneducated on the events surrounding the Sandusky incident and using that as a basis for making a life decision. Educate yourself on this matter. Don't come to a forum and ask for advice from people who also have no idea what they're talking about. As someone who follows every angle of the story, not a single poster in this thread has any idea what they're talking about.

One poster pointed out above the it was PROVEN that Joe Paterno covered up for a pedophile. I would like to know where that information was found. Everything has been pure speculation thus far.

I thought you people did your homework.

Not to beat a dead horse, Penn State isn't for you.

 

 

HappyValley, for being so hostile in your post about how everyone else but you doesn't do their "homework," i am surprised that you think i have ever asked anyone what I should do in this post. in fact, i've clarified a couple of times that this is not about advice but about a discussion. and i think it's a fair discussion and clearly your screenname, your shooting at the hip, and your dismissing all of the legitimate evidence that Joe Paterno and other administrative officials were involved is pretty much a sign that "YOU ARE" penn state culture.

I hesitate to be a part of a campus that thinks they're the best public college in the country...what are they ranked by most polls, like...50th or something? You want to applaud their research, great, but they are not the only university out there.

Thank you though for manifesting exactly what irritates me about Penn State. It's a shame non-critical thinking sheep like you go there.

WE ARE  (gaaaaag)

Now, for those that are interested in whether or not their research is defined by institutional politics/ethics, and maybe there's someone out there wherein this scandal hits hard at home, or maybe there's someone who is worried that academics will be overshadowed by a reputation recovery (ie, football program recovery)--maybe there's someone who has wondered whether being part of this campus is an opportunity to ask these very questions in a productive environment? So, would anyone besides the all-knowing and all-decided HappyValley like to join? And HappyValley, you're welcome into this conversation, too, so long as you don't dismiss differing opinions as flawed merely because they are not your own.

 

Edited February 18, 2013 by sr0304

[selecttext]

I hesitate to be a part of a campus that thinks they're the best public college in the country

 

Wow. I hope your arrogance came across to the various admissions committee. Why don't you just withdraw your application now to save everyone some trouble. I hope you keep these opinions to yourself. Actually, why don't you e-mail your concerns to the various faculty members at Penn State so they can have a good laugh over lunch.

Edited February 18, 2013 by selecttext

[Pretty_Penny]

I applied and was accepted to Penn State. While I am not sure if I will choose to go there, the Sandusky scandal would not factor into my decision. As someone who has spent the past four years at another B1G institution and is avidly devoted to college football and basketball, I can say that I honestly believe this is a problem with the sports culture at EVERY university, not just Penn State. Heck, people are deflating footballs at USC, and as much as the previous poster stated there were no classes made up for basketball players at UNC, previous employees have spoken out that there were. People are going to do what it takes to win because, unfortunately, sports are a huge draw for colleges these days. Did particular individuals at Penn State take it too far? Yes, but that doesn't mean every student or faculty member there should be implicated in the crime.

[Tuck]

 On the other hand, I would never attend Boston College because of political reasons. I doubt that many people would give my reasons any thought when they apply there.

 

I don't know anything about Boston College. G2A, what are you alluding to here?

[sr0304]

Wow. I hope your arrogance came across to the various admissions committee. Why don't you just withdraw your application now to save everyone some trouble. I hope you keep these opinions to yourself. Actually, why don't you e-mail your concerns to the various faculty members at Penn State so they can have a good laugh over lunch.

 

Maybe my words were not most accurate--I would hate to be part of a campus that refused to acknowledge its own limitations, its own shortcomings.

And I'm not arrogant.

 

There are reasons to be proud of Penn State. But those reasons don't negate sexual abuse that the University was complicit with for ten years.

I applied to Penn State because of the department.

I question whether i would be happy in the department thanks to the attitude of the campus.

Cancer research is wonderful. My point was not that PSU was no good (why else would i apply? and btw, read my original post--I applied to a fantastic program). But the stance that cancer research nullifies abuse is ridiculous. Just as saying that the abuse shouldn't effect what I think of the University is ridiculous. I didn't expect that thinking the abuse would have an impact would be controversial. I'm surprised it is. I thought this discourse would be more interested in questioning the extent to which the scandal matters in terms of being a part of the institution. I will have to chant, 'We are Penn State.' But in light of recent events, what is Penn State?

i'm through defending my own application and my own personality. Get a grip, think a little harder (rather than assume you know anything about me), or go to a different thread. Maybe one about loving your school no matter what.

Edited February 18, 2013 by sr0304