Opinions on Fat Studies

[practical cat]

Fair enough. I guess I was just surprised that that particular essay would need to be reprinted in a recent anthology. Surely the connection between weight and social class was established so long ago that anyone at the point in their educational/professional careers in which they'd pick up an anthology of essays in such specific subfield would be aware of it.

I might be entirely wrong, though. Perhaps the connection between weight and social class is a much more recent discovery than I think?

I don't think the level of understanding is quite as pervasive as you think.

Nonetheless, we're still all asked to read the Invisible Knapsack piece despite how we all already know about privilege or whatever (also despite how weird and problematic that piece is). It's a major part of knowing the field.

Edited February 28, 2013 by girl who wears glasses

[Fishbucket]

I think that it's interesting that most of the contributors to the Fat Studies Reader are not fat. They are morbidly obese. I agree that our society seems to have a pretty insane problem with (particularly female) body image, but morbid obesity is a medical term that I'm inclined not to read in any sort of "cultural studies" way. It really is an incredibly unhealthy state. If we try and create a minority identity label for it rather than treating it as a medical condition, I don't think we're helping anyone.

[This_madness]

Is this real life? Am I the only person that thinks this is ridiculous? The "personal responsibility" comment that you "don't get" derives from the fact that in the vast majority of cases being overweight is directly involved with diet and physical activity. Are you sure you didn't know that? I know it's hip and trendy to claim that pretty much everyone is a minority, but seriously this kind nonsense is only advocated by WASPS who are desperately trying to minoritize damn near everyone.

 

It's a much more complicated issue, I think. For one thing, high quality, nutritious food is much more expensive than fattening foods. For another, many communities, particularly in poor urban neighborhoods, are food deserts in which access to nutritional food is limited but access to fast food restaurants is high. (One neighborhood in Pittsburgh that I can think of has a KFC and a pizza joint, but no grocery store.) I won't deny that personal responsibility plays some part in body type, for many people, but the issue isn't quite so simple. 

[asleepawake]

Is this real life? Am I the only person that thinks this is ridiculous? The "personal responsibility" comment that you "don't get" derives from the fact that in the vast majority of cases being overweight is directly involved with diet and physical activity. Are you sure you didn't know that? I know it's hip and trendy to claim that pretty much everyone is a minority, but seriously this kind nonsense is only advocated by WASPS who are desperately trying to minoritize damn near everyone.

 

But it isn't that simple. Dieting itself is linked to long-term weight gain rather than loss in plenty of studies (and, anecdotally speaking, I can speak to this as an ex-thin, ex-bulimic who is now overweight, yet healthier that I used to be even if you cannot see it), and other studies have shown that a huge part of whether or not you will gain weight is genetic. Our bodies expect famine, so overeating was once a desirable genetic trait. Fewer people in the "Western world" have this problem today, but now we have the problem of manufactured foods that contain so much salt and sugar and chemicals that they can be addictive. We have too much food and not enough nutrition. There isn't consensus about this in the sciences, either, but even if there were, there are still a lot of class, race, and gender implications about fat that would be worth talking about.

Of course, you are not obligated to participate in those discussions, but there's no need to be so dismissive.

Edited February 28, 2013 by asleepawake

[Fishbucket]

But you're missing the point of Fat Studies. They don't want to analyze how fatness arises and thus how to combat it. They want to celebrate it as a legitimate body form that has been unfairly maligned. What you're discussing is a public health problem. Fat Studies wants to remove "health" from the discussion entirely.

 

It's a much more complicated issue, I think. For one thing, high quality, nutritious food is much more expensive than fattening foods. For another, many communities, particularly in poor urban neighborhoods, are food deserts in which access to nutritional food is limited but access to fast food restaurants is high. (One neighborhood in Pittsburgh that I can think of has a KFC and a pizza joint, but no grocery store.) I won't deny that personal responsibility plays some part in body type, for many people, but the issue isn't quite so simple. 

[asleepawake]

I think that it's interesting that most of the contributors to the Fat Studies Reader are not fat. They are morbidly obese. I agree that our society seems to have a pretty insane problem with (particularly female) body image, but morbid obesity is a medical term that I'm inclined not to read in any sort of "cultural studies" way. It really is an incredibly unhealthy state. If we try and create a minority identity label for it rather than treating it as a medical condition, I don't think we're helping anyone.

 

So I assume you feel the same way about disability studies?

[Fishbucket]

So I assume you feel the same way about disability studies?

 

If you mean, should we medicalize certain disabilities in order to find ways to cure them? Then my answer is yes

[squire_western]

It's a much more complicated issue, I think. For one thing, high quality, nutritious food is much more expensive than fattening foods. For another, many communities, particularly in poor urban neighborhoods, are food deserts in which access to nutritional food is limited but access to fast food restaurants is high. (One neighborhood in Pittsburgh that I can think of has a KFC and a pizza joint, but no grocery store.) I won't deny that personal responsibility plays some part in body type, for many people, but the issue isn't quite so simple. 

 

I'm a vegan, and I know this is popular rhetoric but it's patently untrue. I do understand that it's a class issue insofar that people are uneducated about the nutritional value (and cost value) of foods that they eat. (And while nutritional education divides pretty clearly along class lines, I think most people are poorly educated-- hence the "protein" obsession, etc.) But if you go to the supermarket the cheapest available foods are grains and vegetables bought in bulk. Obviously organic frozen burritos are expensive, but the unorganic fatty version is also more expensive than bulk grains and vegetables. And meats and dairy products-- completely irrelevant to a good diet-- are the most expensive foods of all. I understand that class and food consumption are related and that this relationship affects obesity in America, but I still don't think that fatness should be read as cultural studies. I think fishbucket's latest post pretty clearly indicates why this is so.

[asleepawake]

If you mean, should we medicalize certain disabilities in order to find ways to cure them? Then my answer is yes

 

No, I mean disability studies in the humanities... Should we simply not study this in the humanities because they are also studying it in medicine? 

[squire_western]

So I assume you feel the same way about disability studies?

 

WOW. I see where all of this is coming from now. Good luck making that comparison to someone with a disability.

[Two Espressos]

If you mean, should we medicalize certain disabilities in order to find ways to cure them? Then my answer is yes

 

I often think about this (kinda).  How far do we take this logic?  What about sexual minorities, "ugly" people, etc.?  How far do we take the normalization of bodies?

[Fishbucket]

No, I mean disability studies in the humanities... Should we simply not study this in the humanities because they are also studying it in medicine? 

 

We can definitely study it, but not just to create a new narrative to describe why disabled people are actually better-abled than un-disabled people. I feel like that falls more into the realm of Chicken Soup For The Soul and self-affirmation than rigorous academic research and theory.

[This_madness]

But you're missing the point of Fat Studies. They don't want to analyze how fatness arises and thus how to combat it. They want to celebrate it as a legitimate body form that has been unfairly maligned. What you're discussing is a public health problem. Fat Studies wants to remove "health" from the discussion entirely.

 

I wasn't suggesting that the field of Fat Studies was about how to combat fatness, I was merely responding another poster's claim that in the vast majority of cases, weight is about personal responsibility. That's not always the case.

Edited February 28, 2013 by JoshBarblahblah

[Fishbucket]

WOW. I see where all of this is coming from now. Good luck making that comparison to someone with a disability.

 

Interesting point. I do think a blind person would find it fairly offensive for his lifelong disability to be compared to a bodily state that can be changed over the course of several weeks on a reality tv show.

[asleepawake]

I'm a vegan, and I know this is popular rhetoric but it's patently untrue. I do understand that it's a class issue insofar that people are uneducated about the nutritional value (and cost value) of foods that they eat. (And while nutritional education divides pretty clearly along class lines, I think most people are poorly educated-- hence the "protein" obsession, etc.) But if you go to the supermarket the cheapest available foods are grains and vegetables bought in bulk. Obviously organic frozen burritos are expensive, but the unorganic fatty version is also more expensive than bulk grains and vegetables. And meats and dairy products-- completely irrelevant to a good diet-- are the most expensive foods of all. I understand that class and food consumption are related and that this relationship affects obesity in America, but I still don't think that fatness should be read as cultural studies. I think fishbucket's latest post pretty clearly indicates why this is so.

 

I've been a vegetarian for a decade, and I agree with you that a plant-based and unprocessed diet is ideal. However, people who are really living in poverty, especially in food deserts, have to think about things like how often they go to the grocery store, because it uses gas or bus money every time they go, and so they buy things that are cheap but also things that last (aka canned, frozen, and processed foods).

[dazedandbemused]

But you're missing the point of Fat Studies. They don't want to analyze how fatness arises and thus how to combat it. They want to celebrate it as a legitimate body form that has been unfairly maligned. What you're discussing is a public health problem. Fat Studies wants to remove "health" from the discussion entirely.

Exactly! I think I made it clear that the reason behind one being overweight isn't really the point, it's about the pathologizing that occurs which is a real issue. I specifically stated that I see it as being about reducing the fat to an undeserving scourge on society rather than allowing for personal agency and individual meaning.

Edited February 28, 2013 by dazedandbemused

[squire_western]

Interesting point. I do think a blind person would find it fairly offensive for his lifelong disability to be compared to a bodily state that can be changed over the course of several weeks on a reality tv show.

 

Yeah, can't imagine why.

[asleepawake]

WOW. I see where all of this is coming from now. Good luck making that comparison to someone with a disability.

 

I am really surprised to see these really simplistic ideas coming from someone who presumedly has the intellectual curiously that we have in the humanities. I asked a legitimate question. Fishbucket said that we should leave "fat studies" to those in medicine, so I asked if s/he feels that we should also leave disability studies to those looking for cures for illnesses. I didn't say that being fat = being blind.

 

Do you tell addicts that they do not have real diseases, and those with depression that they merely need to look on the bright side? Or is it only weight that you assume is the direct result of some personality flaw?

[asleepawake]

Exactly! I think I made it clear that the reason behind one being overweight isn't really the point, it's about the pathologizing that occurs which is a real issue. I specifically stated that I see it as being about reducing the fat I an undeserving scourge on society rather than allowing for personal agency and individual meaning.

 

 

I agree with you. Even though I've been discussing the reasons in this thread, it is a valuable topic even if science proves me wrong on all of those reasons.

[thatjewishgirl]

I've been a vegetarian for a decade, and I agree with you that a plant-based and unprocessed diet is ideal.

 

Ever thought about going vegan? Dairy is evil!

[Fishbucket]

How about next we do PMS studies, and then Bad Haircut Studies, Unflattering Outfit Studies, Shrill Voice Studies... Basically reduce every trait that people find naturally repellant into an "unfairly marginalized minority group" and build an academic sub-discipline around it. I think that will move the humanities in the right direction, and certainly real minority groups won't be insulted at all. 

[GuateAmfeminist]

I am confused, why do you think they were comparing disabilities and fatness/weight issues as essentially the same? I haven't gotten that from anybody. They were just saying that disability studies has a place in the humanities and so can fat studies. I think there is a fair argument as to the difference in permenancy but there are disabilities that aren't permenant just as there as genetic disorders which make some people obese from childhood. I know far too little about the ideas and rationale behind fat studies, so I would want to know more before making a judgement.

 

Edit: this was in response to pepperthedog

Edited February 28, 2013 by GuateAmfeminist

[This_madness]

 But if you go to the supermarket the cheapest available foods are grains and vegetables bought in bulk. 

 

Poor people do tend to buy things in bulk, what with all of the excess storage space and large refrigerators they have in their cramped apartments and houses. Not to mention the excess cash they have to front the cost of bulk foods (cheaper over time does not make something affordable in the moment).

 

And when it comes to dining out, as even poor people occasionally do, I suppose if McDonald's would sell organic veggie burgers for the same price as their $0.99 cheeseburgers, the personal responsibility argument would carry more weight. 

[Two Espressos]

How about next we do PMS studies, and then Bad Haircut Studies, Unflattering Outfit Studies, Shrill Voice Studies... Basically reduce every trait that people find naturally repellant into an "unfairly marginalized minority group" and build an academic sub-discipline around it. I think that will move the humanities in the right direction, and certainly real minority groups won't be insulted at all. 

 

I see where you're going with this, but weight/body issues certainly have much more cultural impact than what you've listed here.  My point remains as stated earlier in this thread: I think Fat Studies is important, but I don't think it warrants its own sub-discipline.

 

I'm totally a philosophy/literature/science kind of guy rather than a social theory/cultural studies kind of guy, so I'm trying not to butt in too much...

Edited February 28, 2013 by Two Espressos

[dazedandbemused]

How about next we do PMS studies, and then Bad Haircut Studies, Unflattering Outfit Studies, Shrill Voice Studies... Basically reduce every trait that people find naturally repellant into an "unfairly marginalized minority group" and build an academic sub-discipline around it. I think that will move the humanities in the right direction, and certainly real minority groups won't be insulted at all.

Ok, this is ridiculous. Has society made people with PMS and bad haircuts the scapegoat and mascot for the ills that "plague" us? Do we look down upon them as lesser (morally, intellectually, ethically) than the rest of us? These are things which overweight people constantly get from those around them, whether it's done consciously or not.