So...money issues

[Simbacats]

Just out of curiosity, how is everyone planning to pay for social work school? Do you have money saved up? Will your family be helping out?

 

I got my various acceptances, but am really struggling with the financial part of it. I don't have any money saved up, and my parents aren't really in a position to help me out, either.

 

NYU: got a $12,000 scholarship, didn't really get info on work study, annual tuition $36,000ish. I decided to let the response deadline come and go.

 

Columbia: got a $13,000 scholarship for the coming year, and $4,000 work study. I hear that's on the higher end of things. Except annual tuition is around $40,000 not counting living expenses. Even if I take out the max in federal loans which I think is capped at $20,500, I will still have to get private loans just to even cover the tuition, never mind living expenses. I probably would have to pay off $60,000 in loans at the very, very least, probably closer to $70,000. Which probably translates into several hundred dollars of loan repayment a month.

 

Hunter: in-state annual tuition is $12,000 a year. The federal loan would cover my living expenses as well as tuition, as I will be commuting from home. I would have loans of less than $40,000 to pay off, which probably translates into more like a couple hundred dollars a month.

 

Meanwhile, I hear the average entry-level (clinical) social worker in the NYC area (which is where I plan to stay) makes $45,000 a year, if that.

 

I think I could afford Hunter. But I am not sure I can afford Columbia, even though it's high on the prestige factor. Of course, I have less than a week to officially decide...

Edited April 10, 2013 by Simbacats

[citychild]

You know, there's a really great thread here about state vs. Ivy programs that is worth a read. I am set on Loyola, which is $30k total. I haven't gotten an aid package yet, which is driving me nutballs. I'm not sure what I'll do if I don't get enough money. I've applied and applied to scholarships...

[JazzHands]

i dont think it makes much sense to go to any ivy for social work...and to pay that much for an msw is hard to justify

[Simbacats]

Thanks. FWIW, the truth of the matter is, a few days ago, I already notified the various people involved in my application process, as well as the Hunter professors I went to for advice, that I'd attend Hunter.

 

I just haven't sent in my deposit to Hunter, and haven't told anyone at Columbia yet. So you might say I'm unofficially decided, but I still have leeway for a last minute change. And I was having a slight freakout session about turning down Columbia, mostly because I updated a couple of social workers in the field about my decision today. Note: neither of them said anything bad about Hunter. They both thought it was a good choice, particularly in terms of finances. But they were slightly biased towards Columbia.

 

One of the two, the executive director of one of the largest social welfare agencies in the city (note: he went to a small private MSW program), emailed me:

 

"all three of these schools are wonderful....Columbia has the most prestige but Hunter and NYU are certainly viewed with great respect. Hunter, of course, has an economic advantage. Any one you choose will be great! Almost all these schools have similiar placement opportunities....most clinical settings have students from all these schools and all agencies will hire students from any of these schools. Getting a specific job will be based on how you interview.... not which school you graduate from. I think you are over analyzing.....pick the one that is most convenient, is economically feasible and "feels right" to you."

 

The other social worker, who heads the behavioral health services division of a major social welfare agency, told me that if money were no object, to go to Columbia. Because there were people at various organizations (including himself) who preferred the name, and given the avalanche of resumes they receive, they might not get around to contacting those from lesser "name" schools as Columbia MSWs are a dime a dozen in NYC. In fact, he said he noticed my resume pretty much because of my top Ivy undergrad degree, since there are apparently very few people from said school who apply to social work school. On the other hand, he also conceded that since I have that Ivy undergrad background, I would probably still get my foot in the door of such organizations that care about names wherever I get my MSW; that Columbia and Hunter's clinical education were pretty much the same caliber; maybe it's good for me to "experience a different demographic from people who tend to go to Ivies," and since I was planning on staying on in NYC at least until I get my LCSW, having the Hunter name might give me an edge with certain more progressive, community activist organizations in a way that Columbia wouldn't. I kept in mind he is someone with two Ivy degrees, so he is not entirely unbiased on this topic; on the other hand I guess he is proof that yes, there are people in NYC who care about these things.

 

As for the rest...I'd actually spent most of the past month canvassing the three schools, talking with professors about how they got to where they were, and whether it mattered when I tried to apply for their Ph.D programs (given I'd like to eventually do clinical social work research). Their consensus was that it mattered to a certain extent, but Hunter was perfectly in the safe range. I'd like to get some research experience in before I leave my MSW but don't want to sacrifice a clinical placement for it; there are no work study research assistantships for MSW students at Columbia; NYU tried to look into this but said they couldn't say until the summer; Hunter said since so few of their students are interested in research, they try to provide individual attention to those who do. There is also something of a bad rivalry between Columbia and NYU because they compete for the same students / have had staff leaving for one school or another which might impact how they feel about references coming from certain professors at the other school for their Ph.D programs; however, professors at both schools were completely fine with Hunter and everyone said economic consideration was a perfectly acceptable reason to not go to either NYU or Columbia.

 

All of this prompted me to accept Hunter's offer. I was so relieved on Sunday when I finally decided. Maybe this is just last-minute flailing...

Edited April 10, 2013 by Simbacats

[barleythebulldog]

I'm in the same boat. I was accepted in to University of Denver's program and was ecstatic. I received a $14,000 scholarship (divided among each quarter over two years) and got the maximum amount back in aid. I am still $12,000 short for just the tuition, which is $40k. Though Denver is the closest to me (I'm from Kansas), my fiance and I decided that we just can't justify graduating in at least $80k in debt. I will most likely be attending a lesser known (out of) state school and will graduate with under $30k in debt. I read the thread about ivy vs. state schools and that was really the deciding factor for me. I just can't justify the amount of debt that I would graduate with at Denver, even though it is my dream school (and I love the city). Best of luck!

[paige_elizabeth10]

Barley, its nice to see you back! Did you hear from UW? I will also be graduating with around 80k (undergrad plus grad). Even as a resident, UW is NOT cheap. I was pretty disappointed with my financial aid  . I talked to my mom about it though and 80k might seem like a lot, but it is definitely doable since most of my loans give me up to 20 years to pay off. Is it annoying that I'm already incredibly in debt? Yes. But school is expensive and that's just how its going to be.

[TheCrow]

I'm somewhat surprised that UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU fill their classes in any given year due to the cost and earning potential. What's quite frustrating is how expensive professional degrees are (MPA, MPP, MSW). I'm interested in macro-level social work (not clinical work) and would like to get a PhD in the field and do research. It's difficult, however, to justify >$20k in loans for an MSW when other fields like economics and sociology would practically pay me to attend (even for a master's only).

[Simbacats]

I  think UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU can fill their classes for any number of reasons. For one, they are name schools and there are always people who place value on those names. Also, people who've worked for several years at least and have a nest egg. Or they have an independent source of income. I get the sense this is particularly true for Columbia, with its international students coming for the prestige name, the vast majority of them from rich families. And just regular American upper/upper-middle class people who come from families where philanthropy is in their blood. (ie, with the outlook, "I'd love to learn skills to run the foundation my father/mother/grandmother, etc set up..." ) In that sense, the prestige name also translates into a socio-economic class marker. Finally, I also think that there are a lot of social work students who want to go into private psychotherapy practice, after seeing how therapists can charge over a hundred dollars for a 45-min session.

 

The people who are disadvantaged in this system are the ones who don't have any savings, who don't have a job either with those universities or some other social services agency they can attend at the same time, and who don't come from wealthy backgrounds. People who might be interested in clinical but not necessarily private practice. I'd wanted more input on how my demographic dealt with this situation; I guess the answer is to go to a public school like Hunter.

 

I had a bittersweet email from the NYU financial aid office in my inbox today. Apparently the NYU admissions and financial aid office don't communicate completely smoothly: two days after I neglected to respond to their deadline, I got a response to my financial aid appeal. They said they'd bump my scholarship up another $3,000 to $15,000 which they claim is the absolute maximum scholarship award they give.That was really nice of them, but I still don't think it's affordable for me, though.

[bbergstrom]

I was definitely grappling with this decision as well, as I got into my own state school (UConn), and NYU, Fordham, and Hunter in the city. I am in a somewhat unique situation where no matter where I go, I will not need to take out loans. 

 

The things I personally took into account:

- Prestige: Obviously the bigger named schools (NYU, Fordham) may have more prestige, however you'll pay for it! Unless you want to go onto a PhD, I do not see the importance of a big name. Nor do people I have talked to in the field. It took me a while to actually justify for myself that graduating from UConn would be just as employable as an NYU or Fordham for my concentration. (casework/clinical)

- Cost: We all know we aren't going into the field for the big bucks, so spending $60,000+ for your Masters, when you'll most likely make less than that your first employed year seems unjustified. Even though I can afford it, it doesn't make sense to spend it.

- Researching vs. Profesional Professors: This is a big deal for me. I prefer professors who really know their stuff and have been in the field for a while, and genuinely care about the success of their students. My sister is a researching professor at, let's just say a well to do university in the New York area, and she researches first, teaches second. The priority is finishing class so they can continue their own research, and they are less available for help if you need it. Again I say, for ME, this is a huge deal, as I am on the clinical track and really prefer a mentoring professor more than a hands off.

- Location: I want to work with low-income minorities in urban areas. Perhaps I lived in a bubble, but I only thought I could find that in New York City (at least around my area). After my two years in AmeriCorps, which traveled extensively throughout the country, I realized there are similar populations almost anywhere you go. Even in my "rich" state of Connecticut, there is a huge need for advocating for individuals who are in poor living and economic situations.

 

This is only my personal opinion and how I reached my decision, so call me Dr. Phil but I would go with whatever feels right. As I said, I am in a unique situation and would not need to take on loans at any school, but even though I am in that position and got into "more prestigious" universities, I am still choosing my state school. It works for me. If you want a big name, or a specific location and it costs a little more, it will be worth it if you'll be happier! And once you make a decision, a huge weight lifts off your shoulders! So good luck

[basquiat81]

I  think UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU can fill their classes for any number of reasons. For one, they are name schools and there are always people who place value on those names. Also, people who've worked for several years at least and have a nest egg. Or they have an independent source of income. I get the sense this is particularly true for Columbia, with its international students coming for the prestige name, the vast majority of them from rich families. And just regular American upper/upper-middle class people who come from families where philanthropy is in their blood. (ie, with the outlook, "I'd love to learn skills to run the foundation my father/mother/grandmother, etc set up..." ) In that sense, the prestige name also translates into a socio-economic class marker. Finally, I also think that there are a lot of social work students who want to go into private psychotherapy practice, after seeing how therapists can charge over a hundred dollars for a 45-min session.

 

The people who are disadvantaged in this system are the ones who don't have any savings, who don't have a job either with those universities or some other social services agency they can attend at the same time, and who don't come from wealthy backgrounds. People who might be interested in clinical but not necessarily private practice. I'd wanted more input on how my demographic dealt with this situation; I guess the answer is to go to a public school like Hunter.

 

I had a bittersweet email from the NYU financial aid office in my inbox today. Apparently the NYU admissions and financial aid office don't communicate completely smoothly: two days after I neglected to respond to their deadline, I got a response to my financial aid appeal. They said they'd bump my scholarship up another $3,000 to $15,000 which they claim is the absolute maximum scholarship award they give.That was really nice of them, but I still don't think it's affordable for me, though.

 

I think even attending a state school within the particular demographic you mentioned (individuals with minimal savings, not from a wealthy background, no job etc.) is tough. I was accepted to the Univ. of Maryland with a RA scholarship (8k) and while it is not an Ivy league school it is still pretty expensive given that I will have to pay out of state tuition. I just cant afford it when you add in moving and living expenses. I have also been accepted to two California State Universities and while tuition is around 15k for two years (which is pretty amazing) - it will still be tough for me given that I will be a full time student (no job) and not living somewhere where I don't have to pay rent. So, I will need to take out loans for both tuition and living expenses . For me to survive in Los Angeles and pay my bills (car, undergrad loan, etc.), and rent i-  I will need to borrow around 1,800-2k. That's at most 48k in loans for two years not to mention tuition and undergrad debt! My other options is to interview for the CalSWEC stipend (which I will do later on in the month) and have it be offered to me, cut down on expenses as much as I can, and/or work during the weekend. I have already emailed the chairs of both CSU depts. to see if any RA scholarships are available for students, both replied that none are given as of now but there could be an opportunity to assist faculty down the line.  I'm just wondering how people will financially support themselves if they are in the same boat as me. I know I will make it work but It would be so nice to have a philanthropic long lost fairy abuelita..

[barleythebulldog]

Barley, its nice to see you back! Did you hear from UW? I will also be graduating with around 80k (undergrad plus grad). Even as a resident, UW is NOT cheap. I was pretty disappointed with my financial aid  . I talked to my mom about it though and 80k might seem like a lot, but it is definitely doable since most of my loans give me up to 20 years to pay off. Is it annoying that I'm already incredibly in debt? Yes. But school is expensive and that's just how its going to be.

Paige, I need to update my signature, but I got waitlisted at UW! Boo! I've actually decided on Arizona State University. Super cheap and pretty feasible for the fiance to find a good job there (he's a chemical engineer), as he will be supporting me through school. So I'm pretty sure that's the route we're going to take. Hopefully our baby (Barley...the bulldog ) will do okay with the heat!  

Edited April 10, 2013 by barleythebulldog

[Steph729]

Hi All, I'm having a very difficult time as well dealing with the realities of grad school costs. I applied to Hunter, NYU, and Columbia, and got into all three schools. NYU gave me ~10k and Columbia ~13k but both are still so expensive and I can't fathom how I will pay back those loans on a social workers salary. I love NYUs clinical focus, but I'm likely going to Hunter because it's more affordable and still a great program. It's just so hard turning down an ivy and NYU! All of the social workers and health care workers I've spoken to have told me to go to hunter. Even someone at the NYU admissions event (a prof) told me if money was an issue to go to hunter!! I will still need to take out loans for tuition and housing but the debt will be more manageable I guess....one thing that's weird is that hunters health insurance through ghi costs ~500$ a month and NYU and Columbia cost a fraction of that. Don't know why health insurance at hunter will cost me close to $5,000 a year! It's never a win-win...wait, why am I going to back to school ? I have to keep reminding myself...

[awright228]

Just out of curiosity, how is everyone planning to pay for social work school? Do you have money saved up? Will your family be helping out?

 

I got my various acceptances, but am really struggling with the financial part of it. I don't have any money saved up, and my parents aren't really in a position to help me out, either.

 

NYU: got a $12,000 scholarship, didn't really get info on work study, annual tuition $36,000ish. I decided to let the response deadline come and go.

 

Columbia: got a $13,000 scholarship for the coming year, and $4,000 work study. I hear that's on the higher end of things. Except annual tuition is around $40,000 not counting living expenses. Even if I take out the max in federal loans which I think is capped at $20,500, I will still have to get private loans just to even cover the tuition, never mind living expenses. I probably would have to pay off $60,000 in loans at the very, very least, probably closer to $70,000. Which probably translates into several hundred dollars of loan repayment a month.

 

Hunter: in-state annual tuition is $12,000 a year. The federal loan would cover my living expenses as well as tuition, as I will be commuting from home. I would have loans of less than $40,000 to pay off, which probably translates into more like a couple hundred dollars a month.

 

Meanwhile, I hear the average entry-level (clinical) social worker in the NYC area (which is where I plan to stay) makes $45,000 a year, if that.

 

I think I could afford Hunter. But I am not sure I can afford Columbia, even though it's high on the prestige factor. Of course, I have less than a week to officially decide...

 

I hate the price of school -- I think it's totally unfair that education is so expensive! So when I started to go for advanced degrees I decided a long time ago I would not go anywhere that wouldn't pay for the whole thing or extremely close to it. When I went for my J.D. I moved across the country to accept a 100% tuition and I worked during my time there to make up for living, but I borrowed a little bc I could not work full time. Now, that I am going back for my social work degree I got 20k from BC and I am looking for work or a grad assistantship to pay for the rest. I will not borrow another dime from the government -- if I don't find any gainful work or a grad position, I will defer my admission or apply to more schools next year and see if I can get more $ somewhere else.

 

I think that most MSWs that I know or work with think that w/e they borrowed was worth it bc they are in careers that they truly love. I just don't want to borrow anymore on personal protest!

[louise86]

I'm not applying to schools for a couple of years but I joined here to keep an eye on what type of aid schools are offering. Based on what I've seen, there's absolutely no way I will be wasting time and money even applying to Columbia, NYU, U Washington, etc. Even if I could afford tuition to these places the cost of living in these cities is really high.

 

Right now my short list of U.S. schools only includes University of Maryland Baltimore and SUNY Buffalo. Maryland is still a lot for an out-of-state student, but I'd consider it with some aid because I could see myself settling in the city long term. 

 

An option to help off-set the cost for those of us that do not have a BSW is to go back to school and get one first because you'll end up paying only 1 year of grad school tuition instead of 2. 

Edited April 11, 2013 by louise86

[gradschoolmom]

Don't forget about the options for repayment that are available.  This does not mean that it makes sense to get into that kind of debt by any means.  If there's one thing I've learned , it's that where you get your MSW (for the most part) doesn't matter NEARLY like it does for an MBA.

 

Just some thoughts:

 

1.  Income-based repayment; there is a lot of info if you google.  Caps your payments based upon a percentage of your salary (and yes, your payments can theoretically be "zero") and after 25 years of payments, your remaining loan balance is forgiven.  There are stipulations (such as you must consolidate upon graduation) and you re-certify every year, but it's a thought.

 

2.  Public Service Loan Forgiveness.  Available to mental health clinicians; 10 years of documented work with a non profit or government agency (you can combine with Income Based Repayment), you make 10 years of payments, remaining loans are forgiven.  

 

3.  National Heath & Human Services loan forgiveness - highly competitive but if placed in a high need area and work full time, you can receive serious money for your efforts.  You will work hard for it.

 

Bottom line:  Don't let the name brand 'get' you, IMO.  Instead, choose a program that you feel fits you best (including financial). If you really believe a Columbia or something will be the best fit, there are creative and helpful ways to manage that debt.  I applied (and was rejected) to UPenn.  I'm sorry I was because I loved their program, but I'm not sorry to have to manage that debtload.  Of course, USC is hardly affordable either!  But Edinboro is, so I have at least one affordable option.

[louise86]

Public Service Loan Forgiveness is available to others besides just mental health clinicians. 

 

What kinds of employment qualify? 

Qualifying employment is any employment with a federal, state, or local government agency, entity, or organization or a non-profit organization that has been designated as tax-exempt by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) under Section 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC). The type or nature of employment with the organization does not matter for PSLF purposes. Additionally, the type of services that these public service organizations provide does not matter for PSLF purposes. 

A private non-profit employer that is not a tax-exempt organization under Section 501©(3) of the IRC may be a qualifying public service organization if it provides certain specified public services. These services include emergency management, military service, public safety, or law enforcement services; public health services; public education or public library services; school library and other school-based services; public interest law services; early childhood education; public service for individuals with disabilities and the elderly. The organization must not be a labor union or a partisan political organization. 

Generally, the type or nature of employment with the organization does not matter for PSLF purposes. However, when determining full-time public service employment at a not-for-profit organization you may not include time spent participating in religious instruction, worship services, or any form of proselytizing. 

http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service#what-kinds-of-employment

 

 

Anyone interested in this option should research all the things you have to do to qualify because you have to have certain types of loans and be on certain types of repayment plans, you have to be working full-time, there's some hoops to jump through with documenting your service and what appears to be lots of forms. http://www.studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/charts/public-service#what-does-it-mean

Edited April 11, 2013 by louise86

[Simbacats]

I have been reading about loan forgiveness programs, and don't get me wrong, I am glad they are there and admire people who have the gumption to take them up on it. But, correct me if I'm wrong:

 

1. Income-based forgiveness applies to federal loans, not private.

 

2. Public Service Loan Forgiveness: Again, this only applies to federal loans, not private.

 

3. National Health Service Corps: Again, only applies to federal loans, not private. In addition, for mental health workers for say the National Health Service Corps, an MSW doesn't suffice, and neither does the LMSW license. You need the LCSW, which means you have at least two/three years of limbo while you work on getting that license (and finding a job where you get that supervision). And the fact that most of these places are either in isolated or the worst-hit inner cities, you are limited in where you can go, which is particularly problematic if you have family obligations that affect your mobility. 

 

The problem is, most private schools cost more than the maximum amount of federal loans you can take out. There is no way you can get loan forgiveness for private loans. So let's say I go to Columbia. With tuition and living expenses, commuting from home and my scholarship, I estimated I would have to borrow $70,000 for the two years. Which is $35,000 a year, $15,000 of which would have to be private loans since federal is capped at $20,000 or so. At the end of a two-year program, even assuming that I get the public loans forgiven, that would still leave me with $30,000 worth of debt that I will have to pay unless I want to declare bankruptcy and ruin my credit rating forever.

 

Again, if my take on this is wrong, I'd love to be cheered up about it...

 

ETA: I rounded down my numbers but it still looks ugly.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Simbacats

[louise86]

Simbacats, yes these programs are for federal loans only as far as I know, which is why I mentioned researching before just assuming you can get loan forgiveness is best. I'm not aware of any loan forgiveness for private loans. 

 

Also, as far as I know, you cannot discharge private student loans in bankruptcy per a law passed in 2005. I think the only way to get rid of them is to either be deceased or permanently disabled. If you have a co-signer I think they try to force them to pay even if you are deceased or disabled. The Obama Administration is suppose to be looking into this issue, but that doesn't mean it will change.

 

These are the reasons I refuse to take out private loans.  

Edited April 12, 2013 by louise86

[TheCrow]

"I will have to pay unless I want to declare bankruptcy and ruin my credit rating forever."

 

Actually, I do not believe you're allowed to discharge your student loans in bankruptcy.

[bukowski]

Even with an expensive institution like Columbia, I don't think you have to resort to private loans. After you've used the maximum offered for Federal Direct Unsubsidized Loan, there is the Federal Graduate Plus Loan. It has a higher percentage rate than Unsubsidized but you will still qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 

[mswapplicant621]

someone please help...i need to decide in the next 16 hours which school i want to attend. i am trying to decide between fordham and hunter. based on my financial situation, fordham will require 20k in loans or maybe just 10k if they give me some aid, because my parents are not helping much. i want to go to fordham. it just feels like a better fit, and i live close to the campus, but i am finding it excruciating to make a decision. my parents are telling me that it will work out either way and to just go with the program that will make me happiest. so, what do you all think...im trying to figure out which clinical msw program will be the best overall for the next two years. thank you

[hmsw2013]

Hi you just answered your own question . Go to Fordham . I too want to attend Fordham because I love the clinical track and the school is def a fit for me. The director of admissions has been very inviting in regards to discussing their program with me and took time out to explain to me fordham great qualities. I was sold.

[mswapplicant621]

thank you so much for responding. im glad to know that fordham's good vibes are real! am i insane not to go to hunter, though....it would basically cost me nothing. im curious if you considered hunter for yourself. thank you!

[hmsw2013]

Yes I did . Hunters program is great as well. Of course the tuition is way cheaper. It's a very hard decision I can imagine . But what does your gut tell you. Because from your previous post it seems you have already stated you liked fordham but hunter is cheaper. So from the outside your decision for hunter is just cost. That's not a good reason alone to attend a school at least in my opinion. I know cost is a factor but shouldn't be the only factor.

[hmsw2013]

Go to the school that you feel fits your needs for the next two years. From initial post that's fordham. But that's your decision.