You only hate grad school because you think you're supposed to.

[juilletmercredi]

In the midst of all of the very recent "I hate grad school; it's miserable and there are no jobs" articles, there's this one in Salon:

 

You Only Hate Grad School Because You Think You're Supposed To

 

What do you all think?  Personally, I disagree with his entire article and I've actually had a pretty overall positive experiences in grad school.  (I'm also a social psychologist.)  But I'll wait to give my explanation why.

[Roquentin]

Having just powered through a few hours of truly mind-numbing RA gruntwork, I feel qualified to cut through the article's bs and say, unequivocally and of my own volition, that there are many, many things to hate about grad. school.

[ak48]

Not having spent a single minute as an actual grad student (starting a PhD in September), I'd venture to say that like everything else in this world, the article has some correct points but also flaws.

 

I do believe that framing and mindset have a very important role in how you perceive something. If everything you read/hear and everybody you know goes on about how bad X is, then you are probably also going to dislike X, or at the very least, evaluate things with reference to it.

 

Also, the difference between a misfortune being "a setback to learn from" and "a miserable, experience-defining moment" is almost entirely attitude dependent. In this sense, I agree with the article.

 

However, at the same time I think it is insultingly simplistic to say that the "only reason" one hates grad school life is because that impression exists among other people. For one, not everybody "hates" grad school. Second, I'm sure there are actual, objective drawbacks to it, like all jobs in life. Here is a quote from the end of the article

 

"I assumed graduate school was supposed to be gratifying and therefore it largely became so. I was unaware that graduate school was supposed to be a dreary pool of loathing, and therefore it was not."

 

This is an elementary school student's understanding of life and cause and effect.

[wildviolet]

Didn't read the article, but I'd say it really depends... and, like much else in life, there are pros and cons. Personally, I'm enjoying grad school for many reasons. But, I also don't like particular aspects, like superficial over-achievers as colleagues. So, on the one hand, we need to bitch about grad school to let out stress and commiserate. On the other hand, my first year of grad school has probably been one of the best years of my life period.

Edited June 20, 2013 by wildviolet

[ANDS!]

I always skip articles like these for one reason: the attempt to generalize a process that is for the most part largely dependent on your program (and hell even the department itself).  Not everyone has a "lab" they need to report to, or is jockeying for bunsen burners or saddled with 200 essays on 1850's British Literature to read.  Equivalently, not everyone has flexibility in schedules or a hands-off-when-not-needed relationship with advisors.  

[i.am.me]

I've waited a long time for the opportunity to study at this level...so I will be trying to get the best experience that I can out of my PhD program.

Edited June 20, 2013 by iampheng

[fuzzylogician]

I don't hate grad school. Never have. I enjoy bitching about it once in a while but I can only take so much complaining, especially when the complaints are framed as if grad-school specific but really they would have been the same in any normal job. I've had ups and downs in grad school like I imagine everybody does, but I've tried to do my best to improve on aspects that bother me where I can and learn to ignore the others that I cannot change. I am also somewhat nontraditional and have other experiences working in other jobs, studying and living in other countries and generally doing things that have nothing to do with academics and my research field. They all had good aspects and bad and they all sucked at times but were great most of the rest of the time. I don't think grad school is any different.

[TakeruK]

I also don't hate grad school. If I honestly hated what I was doing then I would not be doing it. Like fuzzy, I do enjoying complaining about my life and struggles because it is a way to deal with crappy stuff. It does make me feel better when I sit around with some beer, friends, and vent about the downs of the job. We generally feel better afterwards and struggle through the hard parts. But I also enjoy rushing into my friends' offices to drag them back to my computer to show them something cool I made. And I enjoy it when my friends share their ups with me too! 

 

While in undergrad, I worked in a completely non-academic job for a couple of summers. The pay was great (unionized and lots of benefits), the employers treated us well, and the work was pretty easy (neither extremely mentally or physically taxing). They employ students as summer temps to replace the regular workers who are taking vacation. The students generally love the work -- we were able to earn tuition for our entire degree (Canadian tuition is lower) in just 1 or 2 summers. However, the regular workers had tons to complain about. We loved the opportunities to work overtime, they hated the extra work. We enjoyed it when our duties shifted around (as different people go off for vacation), the regular workers didn't like the change, etc. Basically, compared to most jobs that are currently available, that job is one of the best. Yet people still complained. No experience is perfect/ideal, and it's human nature to find the things we don't like about our experience and complain about it. 

 

That said, over complaining / having a negative attitude could have a bad effect on your experience too. I'm slightly annoyed that almost all of these type of articles either proclaim "Grad school is the best time of your life, ever!!" or "Grad school is horrible and you should only go if you are willing to suffer for 5-10 years and then suffer more afterwards!!". Why does it have to be one extreme or another. I don't think grad school is intrinsically any more or less sucky than other career choices.

 

I think the main source of these types of articles is the illogical connection that if you are pursuing your dream/passion, then everything is perfect. Or, that the ideal way to live your life is to pursue your dreams/passions and those who are lucky enough to do it should be grateful. I don't think this is true at all. This is a very simplistic and childish view of the world. Having passion doesn't magically make everything perfect. Like fuzzy said, grad school/academia has positives and negatives, just like any other life path you could choose.

 

Finally, the article's dentist metaphor shares my experience, but the author came to a different conclusion than me. When I was young, I thoroughly enjoyed any type of medical visit. I enjoyed the car ride to a less usual place. I enjoyed the attention from the doctors/dentists. I enjoyed knowing that I was doing things to ensure the health of my body and saw the dentists' instructions/nagging as challenges to overcome! As I got older, I learned that people are "expected" to hate dentist visits etc. Sure, there was a phase in my teenage years when I decided that I should hate everything in order to fit in, but that phase came and went and I don't think it's the "you're expected to hate dentists" worldview that makes such visits no longer fun for me. Instead, the real reason that I dread going to the dentist is the time it takes out of our busy schedules to fit in an appointment within their appointment schedules. I don't look forward to paying the bills. I don't look forward to feeling guilty and being told what to do by the dentists/doctors, even though I know it's for my own good.

 

I think it's perfectly normal and fine for our worldviews to change as we continue to grow older, and get more experience. It's fine to shift our worldview about grad school from "perfect setting to do real interesting work" to "wow the grass really isn't greener on the other side" as you experience more of grad school. It would be childish to hang onto the former worldview despite actual experiences, just like it would be childish to hang onto all of the fond memories of doctors/dentists and willfully shut out the unhappiness caused by doctors/dentists today.

 

My current worldview of grad school is that it is not an ideal place (but what is, really?) and while many things are not good, it's still worth it in the end for me. When this is no longer true, I'll be happy to wave goodbye to academia and go do something else. But for now, I'm legitimately happy and I think it's also important to keep in mind that grad school does have some great things going for it and to take advantage of it now (e.g. flexible schedule, not having to be constantly writing grants). And that life in academia doesn't magically get better beyond grad school. The good/bad parts might shift a bit, but it would be naive to think that "oh when I am ....[postdoc/tenure-track/tenured/emeritus/not-in-academia], things will magically become perfect"

[danieleWrites]

My big problem with pretty much every article on graduate school circulating these days, and past days, is that it's an all or nothing proposition. You're either entirely miserable in grad school or you're entirely happy in grad school. Nothing ever fits into discrete, happy/miserable categories. The only, single category that captures my entire grad school experience is stressful. Stress was good, bad, and somewhere in between, but there was stress. I ran the gamut of happy to miserable from one end to the other, during my MA. I expect my PhD to be no different. Elementary school, middle school, high school, the military, my half-year as a couch potato, my life in Alaska, or any other state, it's all been a gamut depending on what event was taking place at the moment and my attitude toward that event.

 

The author's main point stands, I think. If your attitude is that you will be miserable in grad school, you will be miserable. If your attitude is positive, you will have a positive experience in grad school.

[zapster]

Cant agree more with some of the views expressed above - most of the so called grad school compaints are not unique to grad school at all.

 

Am yet to start grad school (awaiting Fall 2013 very very eagerly), but I would have thought setting such low expectations (as the author suggests - although my personal experience has been hearing far more balanced views on the grad school experience), would infact make the real experience far more enjoyable ?

[Arcanen]

Rather than questioning if people hate grad school, I think a more interesting question is why someone would hate (or love) grad school. The horrific job market is a concern for most. Insane hours are also an issue for many fields, but the reasons for these hours should be considered. Many people work lots of hours in the lab sciences because time consuming things must be done before "real work" can occur, fair enough.

 

However, I do think one of the problems that causes misery is that people expect to work crazy hours, regardless of whether or not it's actually a good thing for productivity. There are many students that show how working beyond the 40 hour work week reduces productivity. Not just in creating a situation of diminishing returns, but in actually reducing productivity. Working insane hours causes mental health issues, sleep deprivation, mistakes, and less efficient working. I do think a lot of misery is self inflicted, not because people think they are supposed to be miserable, but because people think that working 80 hours weeks is just "what's done" and necessary to get the job done, when in fact working such hours means you get less done overall. The lack of sleep, the lack of time to pursue other activities; these things cause misery.

 

For example, I'm in a math field. It wouldn't be productive for me to work 80 hour weeks. Math and many other fields often advance through intuitive leaps, and these leaps don't occur by "turning the crank". I need to be sleeping well, excited about what I'm doing and have plenty of time to pursue other interests. If I'm working too much, I'll never reach the state of mind that actually allows me to make proper progress through these leaps. Screw that, I'm working 40 hour weeks throughout my PhD.

 

However, some professors and labs do have ideas about what is "expected" in terms of time commitment, even if they aren't aware that such time commitments aren't conducive to productivity (seriously professors, you're in academia, read up on studies about time management and productivity and realise you're often making people miserably in return for... less and lower quality work). In such cases, it isn't self-inflicted until the point that students who have gone though such departments perpetuate the cycle.

 

One aspect that I do think is self inflicted is the graduate students idea of what "graduate school" is like in comparison to undergrad. I think too many grad students tell themselves that they are "beyond" viewing their universities as communities. They don't advantage of the clubs, events, groups etc. on offer at their university; that's an undergraduate thing. Essentially, I think many graduate students cheat themselves out of opportunities to meet new people and discover new things because of a close minded idea that they are "mature" now and such things are beneath them.

 

In a related vein, I think grad students are in too much of a hurry to shoot themselves in the foot through their housing situation. Dorms, residential colleges etc are an "undergraduate thing", and so people choose to live in apartments, ignoring that they are now often in new cities not knowing many (if any) people at all. Undergrads often move into apartment living after a year or two in on campus accommodation, failing to realise that it is because they have already acclimatised to the area and formed friendship groups that they are able to enjoy the apartment lifestyle. Too many grad students move straight into apartments thinking this lifestyle will carry over, not realising how isolating such a living experience can be in a new area where you don't know anyone. Part of the problem is that grad school is all-encompassing for grad students. They spend their working hours in their labs, and then all their free time with their labmates because they haven't had the opportunities to branch out more and meet other people. So one aspect that could be addressed is that more grad students should consider on-campus/dorm or residential college (in particular) living in order to vastly increase the amount of people one is exposed to. My options for my PhD in a new city were a) living in a residential college where I'd meet a bunch of people who'd introduce me to the area, who'd organise tons of activities (movie nights, day trips, ski trips etc) I could attend without going out of my way, where I'd have access to tons of amenities (gym, lounges, dining hall, libraries etc) right where I lived or b ) feeling isolated living in an apartment in a city where I knew no-one except people in my department. There are definite advantages to apartment living but these advantages, I think, are only useful once you're already established in an area.

 

These issues aren't so much about psychologically tricking oneself into disliking grad school by saying "I'm supposed to dislike grad school", but DO come about as a result of perceptions of what grad school and grad students are like (e.g. "I need to work an 80 hour week", "only undergrads view university as community", and "I'm too mature for on-campus and/or community living")

Edited June 21, 2013 by Arcanen

[TeaGirl]

I finished my MS a couple years ago and I'm about to start my PhD. I can't say that I hated grad school to be honest. Sure, like all things in life, it can have its bad moments and we all complain about it, but overall I'd say it was a positive experience. You just have to go into it with clear expectations.

 

There are legitimate reasons for some people to hate grad school, but it's more an individual experience than something to be generalized. You can have miserable luck with an advisor. Maybe your department/lab is particularly tough to work in. Maybe the economy crashed just as you were graduating. Maybe you are doing a graduate degree to get a job opportunity and you're doing your best, but you don't like graduate work or want to go into academia.

 

On the other hand, for a lot of other things that I've heard plenty of people complain about, there is something in the self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't do things like crazy 80hrs/week including weekends and then burn out, if 35 or 40 hrs/week of focused work and free weekends make you happier and more productive. If you have extracurricular interests, don't give them up. If you don't like your lab mates, keep it professional and try to find friends elsewhere. If you are sleep deprived, then for God's sake, sleep! The work will still be there when you wake up. A lot of the complaints I heard from colleagues were often self-inflicted because they had gotten the idea that this is what they were supposed to be doing.

 

In short, think about what feels right for you and do what makes you happiest, most relaxed, and most productive. It's a largely individualistic experience that varies per subject, department, advisor, lab, and PERSON, and it probably won't be the same thing as what the other gal/guy is doing.

[MAME5150]

I agree with those that say that the grad school experience really is dependent on your program of study and department. Those in the physical sciences are pulling way longer hours than us in the social sciences. 

 

For me there's lots to not like about grad school. I don't think I hate it, but I certainly don't love it. It's a necessary evil to do what I want to do. I also do a good job of staying in control of my graduate school experience. That sounds easy, but trust me it's way harder to do than you expect, and I know many who don't have this figured out. 

[abeilles]

especially when the complaints are framed as if grad-school specific but really they would have been the same in any normal job.

 

yes!! maybe this is because a number of students come straight in out of undergrad and haven't had a lot of full-time work experience, but looking at job dissatisfaction in any one industry isn't going to tell you much if you don't look at job dissatisfaction as a whole

[wildviolet]

I agree with those that say that the grad school experience really is dependent on your program of study and department. Those in the physical sciences are pulling way longer hours than us in the social sciences.

 

 I would disagree with that generalization based on my experiences (full disclosure, N = 1). I'm technically in a social science--education--but, I study science education, and I work with faculty who have big NSF grants, which means we have a ton of data to collect, organize, and analyze. I don't consistently pull long hours, but there are times during the year when I'm working towards deadlines and need to work around the clock.

[MAME5150]

 I would disagree with that generalization based on my experiences (full disclosure, N = 1). I'm technically in a social science--education--but, I study science education, and I work with faculty who have big NSF grants, which means we have a ton of data to collect, organize, and analyze. I don't consistently pull long hours, but there are times during the year when I'm working towards deadlines and need to work around the clock.

I think that in grad school we all have to work around the clock when deadlines are pressing. I don't think that what I'm saying is a generalization, as I know 23 people who have their PhD in some form of biology or chemistry, and the actual amount of time that they spend in labs is way more than anybody that I know getting a PhD in the social sciences.

[TakeruK]

A "better" generalization (if that is even a thing) would be to say that PhD students in a lab-based discipline might have to spend more hours in the lab or at work because of the nature of their experiments. I'm in the physical sciences and I probably work for about 40 hours a week on the things I'm paid to do (i.e. NOT counting my coursework). This is the right amount to me, since it's the typical amount of work that you expect from any other job. Also, if you divide the stipend by this many hours, then it's almost a fair wage!

 

I know some people in the more lab-work disciplines don't always spend 100% of their time in the lab doing work. Sometimes they just have to wait there to watch an experiment or wait for another time point in their data collection. Many of them say that, for the most part, they might spend e.g. 12 hours a day in the lab but only actively doing work for 8 hours. But a survey at my school (all science PhDs) showed that while the mean # of hours worked reported by people in Physics, Math, Astronomy etc. is about 40 hours per week, the mean for Chemistry was 60 hours per week! It might depend on whether you would count every hour spent in the lab or just the hours spent working. I can see arguments both ways -- after all, doing Facebook etc. isn't really paid work, but on the other hand, if you are forced to be in the lab to just wait for an experiment, then whether or not you spend it doing nothing or on Facebook, you are still forced to be there, which is work. Indeed, at least in my home jurisdiction, if an employer forces an employee to remain on the premises during their lunch/coffee break, then they must pay the employee for that time. So if I had to work in a lab for long hours, I would probably count it as working time (and bill it as such if I was paid hourly). The only analogous experience I have is observing at the telescope all night but that only happens a few times per year so it doesn't add much to my annually averaged working week. 

 

Also, I agree that pretty much everyone in grad school do not have steady working schedules -- we might work more before a deadline but then we get to take time off during other less busy times!

[rising_star]

I think that in grad school we all have to work around the clock when deadlines are pressing. I don't think that what I'm saying is a generalization, as I know 23 people who have their PhD in some form of biology or chemistry, and the actual amount of time that they spend in labs is way more than anybody that I know getting a PhD in the social sciences.

I'm in the social sciences. Just because I don't spend loads of time in a lab doesn't mean that I spend less time working than my friends who do work in labs. I work from home or coffee shops for 40 hours a week every week, with additional hours in the evening and on the weekend as needed. So, yes, what you just said is a gross generalization. It's also completely unfair to students in the social sciences to say that we don't spend all of our time in labs so we therefore work less. In many cases the opposite may be true. Since I often work at home, it's easy to let the work bleed throughout the day and night and to work ridiculously long hours. If I were in a lab, there'd be a much more obvious time to shut down and head home for the night.

[wildviolet]

I'm in the social sciences. Just because I don't spend loads of time in a lab doesn't mean that I spend less time working than my friends who do work in labs. I work from home or coffee shops for 40 hours a week every week, with additional hours in the evening and on the weekend as needed. So, yes, what you just said is a gross generalization. It's also completely unfair to students in the social sciences to say that we don't spend all of our time in labs so we therefore work less. In many cases the opposite may be true. Since I often work at home, it's easy to let the work bleed throughout the day and night and to work ridiculously long hours. If I were in a lab, there'd be a much more obvious time to shut down and head home for the night.

 

Yes, this is what I wanted to say!

 

I just don't want to give people the impression that the social sciences are any less work than the physical sciences just because we don't have lab space (I've been in both worlds so I feel like I can attest to both). Our "lab space" (at least, for me) is the classroom--and the time that we spend observing teachers and students in their "natural habitat" can be quite intense in that we are trying to pick up on many things at once. Also, interviewing students/teachers is mentally draining--to keep my mind focused on what they're saying so that I can ask follow-up questions strategically is a difficult task. There is a lot of social interaction going on during an interview--it's not as simple as "here, just answer my questions."

[wildviolet]

Also, I agree that pretty much everyone in grad school do not have steady working schedules -- we might work more before a deadline but then we get to take time off during other less busy times!

 

Actually, I was surprised this year... I thought I would have more downtime... but, no. The only downtime I had was at the beginning of the year, when I was still a new grad student and just getting into my RA and TA positions. Now that things have been rolling for some time... yikes! Next week is the first time I'll be taking a vacation all summer (since mid-May). During winter break I didn't go home, so I had more downtime, but I still had to do some research work to stay on top of things (and besides we are still officially paid during that time).

[TakeruK]

Actually, I was surprised this year... I thought I would have more downtime... but, no. The only downtime I had was at the beginning of the year, when I was still a new grad student and just getting into my RA and TA positions. Now that things have been rolling for some time... yikes! Next week is the first time I'll be taking a vacation all summer (since mid-May). During winter break I didn't go home, so I had more downtime, but I still had to do some research work to stay on top of things (and besides we are still officially paid during that time).

 

On further reflection -- you're right -- I think I had less down time during my first year of my PhD than either of my 2 years in my MSc. The 3x 10-week quarter system takes up a lot more than the Canadian system, which is 2x 12 week semesters, so even though each quarter was shorter, I was busy with classes for 6 more weeks this year! 

 

I also didn't go home during winter and spring breaks, but I did take some days completely off to get some downtime. I try to think of my paid time commitment as a number of hours instead of a number of days, which helps me not think that I have to be constantly working. We officially get 4 work weeks off (2 weeks of institutional holidays plus 2 weeks of personal leave) so I compute the total time I "owe" the school for my salary to be 48 weeks x 5 work days x 8 hours = 1920 hours of research / teaching work. I definitely don't do 40 hours of research per week during the school year though, so there's a bit of catching up for me to do this summer! 

[wildviolet]

 I definitely don't do 40 hours of research per week during the school year though, so there's a bit of catching up for me to do this summer! 

 

Right. We are supposed to work no more than 20 hours per week on average during the semester. In reality, that translates to some weeks being less than 20 (like at the beginning of the semester) and some weeks being more than 20 (like at the end of the semester, especially if you are a TA and have to grade assignments and meet with students).

 

So this summer, I am working on 3 separate research projects (continuing one, finishing one that started spring semester, and starting one that will continue for several years, most likely). Because I chose not to take any summer courses, I am receiving hourly pay for the summer (otherwise, I could do an official RA and receive tuition remission).

 

Summer for us is time to catch up on research and write conference proposals for the following year. While I have more time to devote to my hobbies during the summer (due to the lack of coursework), the time that I spend working is quite intense. I am utterly drained right now and cannot wait to leave my computer behind. Next week--no coding, no thinking about how to analyze the data--only eating, drinking, and enjoying museums and the company of people not in academia!

[juilletmercredi]

Arcanen, I totally agree with your entire post.  Once I started getting involved in my university community, refusing to work more than about a 50-hour work week, and took time for myself - I was so much happier.  Grad school isn't so miserable anymore.

 

BUT.  I do disagree with one point.  I Refuse to live in a residence hall anymore.  I worked as a hall director for two years and I hated living in the residence hall.  I refuse to share a bathroom with dozens of people and not have my own kitchen anymore.  But you do have to make an extra effort to socialize when you live in an apartment.

 

and the actual amount of time that they spend in labs is way more than anybody that I know getting a PhD in the social sciences

 

Labs aren't the only place work gets done.  And I would say that my colleagues in the psychology deparment probably rival your friends in the natural sciences wrt time spent in labs.  Psychology is a very lab-based social science.

[MAME5150]

I'm in the social sciences. Just because I don't spend loads of time in a lab doesn't mean that I spend less time working than my friends who do work in labs. I work from home or coffee shops for 40 hours a week every week, with additional hours in the evening and on the weekend as needed. So, yes, what you just said is a gross generalization. It's also completely unfair to students in the social sciences to say that we don't spend all of our time in labs so we therefore work less. In many cases the opposite may be true. Since I often work at home, it's easy to let the work bleed throughout the day and night and to work ridiculously long hours. If I were in a lab, there'd be a much more obvious time to shut down and head home for the night.

I'm also in the social sciences, and I'm telling you that you are kidding yourself if you think that you work more than those in the physical sciences. You're also acting as if those in the physical sciences aren't publishing (where acceptance rates are often times much lower than our journals) or helping write grants and plan new experiments. You are also making it sound like it's a 9-5 where they punch into the lab and are done. 

This is the problem with advice threads. Everyone wants to believe they are suffering through it equally just like everyone else. Social scientists are the worst. Let's face it: Our field has a rich tradition of following the lead of the physical sciences, in many ways to get broader credibility. There's no need to have a chip on your shoulder about it. 

 

Also, I can say that within my department I'm someone who is moving through the program at one of the faster paces, and I've been a solid producer of work. Our hours are really influenced by how smart you work. This includes knowing how your advisor works and being able to anticipate what you will need to do, but also knowing what you want to get out of the program you are in and what experiences really deserve all of your attention. Too many people I work with are stuck in a state of paralysis because they are trying to make everything perfect or trying to solve all problems at once. Those kind of things will keep you up at night and unnecessarily working. In the social sciences your hours are really a product of how smart you work. Again, not as much of a luxury in the physical sciences. 

Edited July 3, 2013 by MAME5150

[i.am.me]

 In the social sciences your hours are really a product of how smart you work. Again, not as much of a luxury in the physical sciences. 

 

Real questions: How come? Can someone elaborate. Personally, I think of my friends who are phenomenologists (sorry, if spelling is off) and I find their methodology extremely laborious and time consuming.