PhD/DrPH in Public Health/Epidemiology Fall 2014

[weiwentg]

Congrats Michael!  I received an email a few days ago telling me the name of my advisor and also with a link to the page for different applications for financial aid (TA positions, etc).  It doesn't look pretty, especially for those who are out of state  Even the TA/RA positions do not come with full tuition funded and the stipend is not enough to live on.  I will send you the link in PM...

 

 

 

Updates:

 

UT Austin (Epi PhD) - Accepted with $5,000 scholarship to pay in-state tuition, being considered for stipend

UPitt (Epi PhD) - Accepted (notified by email and post), letter said funding should be determined in a few more weeks

 

 

OK, this really makes me curse and swear. If you take your PhD and go into the private sector, you may make as much as if you had an MBA or a JD if you end up working for pharma. In that case, it might be worth going partially unfunded, as you'll be able to pay it back (but keep in mind that MBAs are two years, and you will be in a PhD for at least 4).

 

If you go elsewhere in the private sector, you still aren't going to make as much as if you went and got an MBA.

 

If you are going into academia, you are effectively trading current income for academic freedom and often, good health and retirement benefits.

 

I would not consider any program that did not fully fund me. I don't care if I have to be an RA or a TA all 5 years. Of the two that have accepted me so far, one is definitely nominating me for a fellowship, and I get the sense that the other one will. And all are fully funded for at least 3 years.

 

I do not mean to sound like I'm so damn smart that I can get full funding. It is irresponsible of universities to not offer full funding to PhD students, regardless of discipline. The stipend is often not enough to live on by itself, as someone observed. You will not earn as much as you would in the private sector. And if you go into academia you probably have to spend some time as an adjunct, which really pays badly. You are not guaranteed tenure. You can rack up a mountain of debt if you aren't funded, in addition to the debt you have from your bachelor's program or your MPH or MD or JD or RN or whatever you have.

 

I have no problem with working for my degree. I have a problem with universities that don't fund you. If they can't fund you, they shouldn't admit. And if they offer admittance, I hope people choose not to accept: You can get many places with an MPH or MS. Heck, you can teach yourself stats if you are so inclined - I have a coworker who learned stuff like latent class analysis on his own.

[sharonnyc]

Yeah, it is pretty upsetting that there are programs that expect people to take out massive amounts of loans for their PhDs in public health.  I am really not in a position to take out more loans (I still owe LOTS of money from my MD, though I got my MPH for free through a fellowship), so I won't go anywhere (even if that means not going anywhere at all) if I don't have a way to at least not take out loans.  I fortunately can make enough to live off of by working occasional shifts during the semester and full time on vacations as a doctor, so I've decided if I at least get full tuition/fees/health insurance that I will go... but I will be essentially forgoing hundreds of thousands of dollars in income to get my PhD (because I won't be working as a doctor for the 4-5 years of studies, and then after getting my PhD I will make less than I would as an MD if I stay in academics) so adding to the debt is just a no-go.  I am not all about money (and have no children to support) and I've decided I'm OK with that.

 

However... it seems a PhD in epidemiology may be for the privileged few who are in a similar position to me, or who are able to get fellowships/grants.  I am actually surprised at how bad the funding situation is, I didn't realize so many schools would expect students to borrow such significant amounts of money.

 

 

OK, this really makes me curse and swear. If you take your PhD and go into the private sector, you may make as much as if you had an MBA or a JD if you end up working for pharma. In that case, it might be worth going partially unfunded, as you'll be able to pay it back (but keep in mind that MBAs are two years, and you will be in a PhD for at least 4).

 

.....

 

I do not mean to sound like I'm so damn smart that I can get full funding. It is irresponsible of universities to not offer full funding to PhD students, regardless of discipline. The stipend is often not enough to live on by itself, as someone observed. You will not earn as much as you would in the private sector. And if you go into academia you probably have to spend some time as an adjunct, which really pays badly. You are not guaranteed tenure. You can rack up a mountain of debt if you aren't funded, in addition to the debt you have from your bachelor's program or your MPH or MD or JD or RN or whatever you have.

 

 

[weiwentg]

Yeah, it is pretty upsetting that there are programs that expect people to take out massive amounts of loans for their PhDs in public health.  I am really not in a position to take out more loans (I still owe LOTS of money from my MD, though I got my MPH for free through a fellowship), so I won't go anywhere (even if that means not going anywhere at all) if I don't have a way to at least not take out loans.  I fortunately can make enough to live off of by working occasional shifts during the semester and full time on vacations as a doctor, so I've decided if I at least get full tuition/fees/health insurance that I will go... but I will be essentially forgoing hundreds of thousands of dollars in income to get my PhD (because I won't be working as a doctor for the 4-5 years of studies, and then after getting my PhD I will make less than I would as an MD if I stay in academics) so adding to the debt is just a no-go.  I am not all about money (and have no children to support) and I've decided I'm OK with that.

 

However... it seems a PhD in epidemiology may be for the privileged few who are in a similar position to me, or who are able to get fellowships/grants.  I am actually surprised at how bad the funding situation is, I didn't realize so many schools would expect students to borrow such significant amounts of money.

 

I am married. My wife is graduating with a statistics-heavy MPH, so we'll be able to live comfortably enough when she gets a job plus my stipend. 

 

You have an MD already. If nobody's willing to fund you for an epi PhD, then you should ask if you really need one, and if you couldn't just work as a researcher at a research university. Remember, you already have an MPH, so that plus your MD should be sufficient street cred unless you really skimped on methods in the MPH.

[grad2020]

I applied to only three schools because of location, transfer credit restrictions, and most importantly, funding. There is no reason to pay for PhD, and if I didn't get funded, I wouldn't go.

[GradSchooler]

Hi all, this discussion ties to a decision I'm struggling with. I have no masters and mostly applied for my mph in health policy and management this cycle. I was lucky enough to get into some great masters programs but I also just learned that I got into a phd program too (in health behavior though). After the excitement wore off I realized that this phd program and many other PhDs in public health have skimpy funding. I'm still waiting on my funding package, but am wondering if I'd be crazy to pass up an unfunded phd to work on an unfunded masters. I'm thinking 2 years is a lot cheaper than 5-6, and I already work at a job where a masters degree holder can earn 60k when finished and up to 100k after several years of promotions and whatnot. I do want a phd because I want to do research, but I'm still not convinced it will ever be worth tons of loans.

I'd love any thoughts as I grapple with this decision!

[grad2020]

Hi all, this discussion ties to a decision I'm struggling with. I have no masters and mostly applied for my mph in health policy and management this cycle. I was lucky enough to get into some great masters programs but I also just learned that I got into a phd program too (in health behavior though). After the excitement wore off I realized that this phd program and many other PhDs in public health have skimpy funding. I'm still waiting on my funding package, but am wondering if I'd be crazy to pass up an unfunded phd to work on an unfunded masters. I'm thinking 2 years is a lot cheaper than 5-6, and I already work at a job where a masters degree holder can earn 60k when finished and up to 100k after several years of promotions and whatnot. I do want a phd because I want to do research, but I'm still not convinced it will ever be worth tons of loans.

I'd love any thoughts as I grapple with this decision!

 

You really have to talk to professors at the school I think, and find out what actual funding is available, and also what they believe their funding outlook is. I payed for my master's, but was lucky enough to score a full-tuition + stipend TA position for my last semester. I just had my interview for PhD at the same school. They typically have a limited number of stipends + full tuition for incoming doctoral students for the first year, but then you're more on your own afterwards.... have to work as RA or TA @low stipend levels.  However, one professor just got funding for a study that includes 4 years of stipend + tuition for a student.

 

It also depends on your concentration. EHS is typically well funded and a little less competitive since it's not as popular. Not sure about HPM or behavior.

 

Also if you get into a PhD program and you realize it's not for you, you can always drop down to a Masters.

[sharonnyc]

I think this is an important thing to keep in mind.  Also funding seems to be a bit in flux, so even if you take out loans for the first semester a training grant might come in along the way that you would be eligible for.  But 2 years of debt certainly does seem less overwhelming than 4-5 years' worth

 

 

Also if you get into a PhD program and you realize it's not for you, you can always drop down to a Masters.

[GradSchooler]

You really have to talk to professors at the school I think, and find out what actual funding is available, and also what they believe their funding outlook is. I payed for my master's, but was lucky enough to score a full-tuition + stipend TA position for my last semester. I just had my interview for PhD at the same school. They typically have a limited number of stipends + full tuition for incoming doctoral students for the first year, but then you're more on your own afterwards.... have to work as RA or TA @low stipend levels. However, one professor just got funding for a study that includes 4 years of stipend + tuition for a student.

It also depends on your concentration. EHS is typically well funded and a little less competitive since it's not as popular. Not sure about HPM or behavior.

Also if you get into a PhD program and you realize it's not for you, you can always drop down to a Masters.

Thanks so much for this advice! I've set up some times to talk with professors about the funding outlook. I'm also going to remain hopeful that I might be able to find a research assistantship if I work hard to connect with various people. I hadn't thought much about the possibility of finding additional funding later even if it isn't part of my initial package, so that's helpful.

Thanks so much for the thoughts! I really value the support this forum provides.

[EOH_2014]

I too will not be accepting any of the PhD/DrPH programs I got in to this year if they do not cover tuition, give me some sort of health insurance, and reassure me I can put food on the table for the length of my studies. 

 

We all work currently. Many of us have Masters loans. Some of us are married and have kids. Unless you can handle further debt, do not settle for taking out massive amounts of loans for your doctoral degree. My two cents.

[sharonnyc]

Does anyone have any idea why the funding situation for public health PhDs is so grim?  I guess I was naive, but I thought schools that had lots of NIH funding would have training grants, etc.  Are they taking more students than they should, so they can make more money?  Is it because NIH funding has been cut so there are fewer funded positions, but the schools haven't changed their admitting practices accordingly?  Has it always been like this in public health? (few funded positions, most students taking loans?)

[pe_epi]

Hi all... also got into UNC for epi PhD. I'm actually surprised to hear everyone has such dim funding expectations. I've only really talked to UNC, but I'm not too worried. I specifically am going into pharmacoepi and those programs have more money, given the usual industry sponsorship. I had a call with the PE faculty at UNC this week and was told nearly all current PE students have full funding, but that they also have more funding that other epi groups at UNC. I've been told numerous times by colleagues with PhDs not to bother going until you have reasonable funding, and that often if you don't get a great offer your first year, you will find more opportunities for funding once you are there.

 

Also waiting on Harvard, but am happy enough with UNC I almost don't care!

[Michael.L]

Hi all... also got into UNC for epi PhD. I'm actually surprised to hear everyone has such dim funding expectations. I've only really talked to UNC, but I'm not too worried. I specifically am going into pharmacoepi and those programs have more money, given the usual industry sponsorship. I had a call with the PE faculty at UNC this week and was told nearly all current PE students have full funding, but that they also have more funding that other epi groups at UNC. I've been told numerous times by colleagues with PhDs not to bother going until you have reasonable funding, and that often if you don't get a great offer your first year, you will find more opportunities for funding once you are there.

 

Also waiting on Harvard, but am happy enough with UNC I almost don't care!

Hi, Pe_epi,

 

Congratulations! I also get into that program. Do you have any news regarding the financial package?

[sharonnyc]

Hi pe_epi, congrats on your acceptance!  I am worried because in the information they sent us on financing even the TA- and RA-ships don't provide full tuition, and the stipends are too low to live on.  Maybe there are more options for people in certain tracks, but my field doesn't have a lot of "industry" support.

 

Hi all... also got into UNC for epi PhD. I'm actually surprised to hear everyone has such dim funding expectations. I've only really talked to UNC, but I'm not too worried. I specifically am going into pharmacoepi and those programs have more money, given the usual industry sponsorship. I had a call with the PE faculty at UNC this week and was told nearly all current PE students have full funding, but that they also have more funding that other epi groups at UNC. I've been told numerous times by colleagues with PhDs not to bother going until you have reasonable funding, and that often if you don't get a great offer your first year, you will find more opportunities for funding once you are there.

 

Also waiting on Harvard, but am happy enough with UNC I almost don't care!

[pe_epi]

Hi, Pe_epi,

 

Congratulations! I also get into that program. Do you have any news regarding the financial package?

Congrats to you as well! Not yet, but I'm hoping to hear in the next few weeks.

[lsm2204]

Does anyone else have the following posted on their JHSPH application, "Preliminary Decision Reached - Please click the link below under Decision Status to view your decision". This appeared on my application, but there is no link to click!! I am guessing this means a rejection...

[sharonnyc]

I had that yesterday, and this morning there was a link with the decision (I was accepted!)  So it doesn't necessarily mean rejection.  

 

Does anyone else have the following posted on their JHSPH application, "Preliminary Decision Reached - Please click the link below under Decision Status to view your decision". This appeared on my application, but there is no link to click!! I am guessing this means a rejection...

[livenlearn]

Anybody heard from Berkeley epi phd program? it's my top choice.

so far i got one acceptance at pitt (epi phd) and one rejection at UW (implementation science phd)

[lsm2204]

I had that yesterday, and this morning there was a link with the decision (I was accepted!)  So it doesn't necessarily mean rejection.  

hmm, mine still does not have a link. I was assuming it was a rejection because in the past years students were notified via email and not the website (usually around this date). You will probably get an email today! 

Edited February 14, 2014 by lsm2204

[mlkmnsgrl]

Just a word of encouragement. My husband is in his fourth year at UNC epi.  Fully funded every year including 100% tuition, insurance, stipend. Sometimes doubled up training grant and ta.  He'd been offered a training grant at uw and contacted unc to see if they would do the same before we decided which school.  They dropped everything to move funding assignments around and offer him a better fitting grant.  Even the out of state tuition was covered first year while we got residency. And he's already funded for fifth year with graduation may 2015.  We've got kids, so still took a little loan to supplement the stipend, but a single student lives on the training grant stipend very comfortably here. Good luck, all.  We're on the other end now trying to find hard-funded jobs...a whole other story.

[mlkmnsgrl]

In fact, he just said in 10 years, they've been able to fund all but one student and when that one happened they slowed admissions to fix it.  You just won't know, necessarily, until you get here.  But UNC will take care of you and we love it here!

[sharonnyc]

Thanks so much!  That makes me feel better.  I guess they don't want to guarantee anything - but it is nice to hear that there's a good chance I'll get funding there.

 

In fact, he just said in 10 years, they've been able to fund all but one student and when that one happened they slowed admissions to fix it.  You just won't know, necessarily, until you get here.  But UNC will take care of you and we love it here!

[weiwentg]

Does anyone have any idea why the funding situation for public health PhDs is so grim?  I guess I was naive, but I thought schools that had lots of NIH funding would have training grants, etc.  Are they taking more students than they should, so they can make more money?  Is it because NIH funding has been cut so there are fewer funded positions, but the schools haven't changed their admitting practices accordingly?  Has it always been like this in public health? (few funded positions, most students taking loans?)

 

You answered your own question. Thanks to austerity, NIH funding has been cut pretty badly. We are destroying our investments in the biological sciences and whatever else it is that NIH funds.

[lsm2204]

hmm, mine still does not have a link. I was assuming it was a rejection because in the past years students were notified via email and not the website (usually around this date). You will probably get an email today! 

 

 

I had that yesterday, and this morning there was a link with the decision (I was accepted!)  So it doesn't necessarily mean rejection.  

 

 

A very short letter was finally posted that i was waitlisted    

Edited February 17, 2014 by lsm2204

[livenlearn]

anyb0dy heard from berkeley?

[FreeRadical]

anyb0dy heard from berkeley?

 

Hey livenlearn, I see you've asked this question a few times. Just want to make sure that you know about the "Results Search" tab at the top of the page. If not, it'll change your life