Location - How much should it matter?

[npe4411]

Hey all,

 

So I've narrowed down my choices to a few schools - OSU, Texas A&M, and WashU in St. Louis. I would also consider UT-Austin, Purdue and Minnesota (still waiting to hear from them). I'm from Missouri, and the idea of living St. Louis and being closer to family really appeals to me, at least giving me the option to take a short weekend visit for example. However, my uncle who is a chem prof (Ph.D from Berkeley, a lot to live up to right??) said my workload is going to be so much that I shouldn't count on being able to take much time at all for any family visits; therefore I shouldn't base my decision on location at all. My research interests are organic/inorganic, so even though rankings-wise WashU isn't that high (all I can really base things on so far since I haven't visited anywhere), some of the biomedical research going on at WashU really appeals to me, though I also know Texas A&M has one of the strongest inorganic departments in the country.

 

Thoughts on the location situation or the schools in general? Thanks in advance.

[umniah2013]

I also feel torn between choosing the best location or the best school. I think I'm leaning toward choosing based on rankings regardless of the location.

 

I just wish I get into a top school with at least an okay location.

[pachel]

I've been struggling with this issue too. I can't attest to any of the schools in particular that you mentioned, but in my opinion location matters. I've heard some people say that you are going to be so busy in graduate school that location doesn't matter, and that fit is the most important thing. I agree that fit is the most important thing, but I think location is a close second. Despite how busy you are going to be, graduate school is not going to be your life 24/7, and it's important to be in a location that you feel comfortable in for the days you aren't in the lab or in classes. Especially if you're going to be there for 5+ years.

[GeoDUDE!]

So i've spent 2 years in an area that makes me absolutely miserable (carbondale, IL). I would say that it matters to me a lot, and thus I am not staying here for my PhD. I think it all depends on the person. I happen to frequent bars (1,2 times a week) and enjoy having all of the luxeries of bigger cities. Also the people around you are important, and it does change from area to area.

Edited February 12, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[ginagirl]

I think that there are a lot of factors to take into consideration, as has sort of been mentioned above. Faculty, program reputation, research, location, funding..it's hard to say what is the best thing to do and I think is different case-by-case.

[123hardasABC]

I'm one of those non-believers when it comes to ranking, so for me, location matters a lot. School is going to be stressful whether or not you go to a top ranked program. You don't need your environment and living situation to add any more stress to it. My recommendation is to visit the campus, speak with faculty, and visit the neighboring cities. Basically familiarize with the area and see how you like it. It's gonna be your life for the next few years, you gotta make sure you're comfortable with adapting to your new environment. 

[serotoninronin]

I'm easy to please. One or two bars with a few local brews, some good indian food, and a movie theater will pretty much do me. It differs wildly field to field, but if you're being responsible about your future, you have to realize that the program reputation is going to make a much bigger difference in your life than a few years in a shitty town. Trade-offs, etc. I'm not a rankings junky, by any means, and I actually think they're mostly bullshit, but the reality is that they matter to your job prospects.

[Lisa44201]

Your uncle is probably correct - you're not going to have a lot of spare time. Are you planning on visiting some of these places? That'll give you the best information, obviously.

 

Rankings in my field are less important than the person with whom you're working. I happen to be attending a University in a small town in the Midwest; if my mentor were in the Pacific Northwest, I'd be in the Pacific Northwest.

 

Also keep in mind the size of the town - I went from a town of 3,000 people for Undergrad, to a city of 160,000 for my Masters, to a town of 48,000 for my PhD. I don't like cities; the size of this town works really well for me. If you like cities, WashU might be okay. College Station is a college town: there will be plenty of things to do. OSU.... which OSU?

[TakeruK]

I think location "should" matter as much as you want it to matter. Don't let other people tell you how to prioritize your life. Many academics, especially those who are already in nice established positions, tend to recommend to students to put their studies/career first instead of worrying about location. But I don't think this would be very good advice for me. Personally, I have to live in a big enough city to support a diverse population, especially for the availability of ethnic grocery stores and not feeling like an outsider. I also dislike living in college towns. I learned a lot of what I liked from my experience living in a place I did not like for 2 years during my Masters. 

 

In making my PhD decision, I weighed all non-academic reasons (e.g. location) and academic reasons (e.g. research fit) equally. But that's just how my priorities go. I think too many students unnecessarily feel "guilty" for considering any reason other than academic ones and I think this should not happen!

[Boba felt]

Yeah when I narrowed down my list of where to apply I used location as the deal breaker every time. Both had same ranking and offered my research area? Where could I actually see myself? Life is a balance and I you don't like the town it will bother you more and more even if you're busy studying.

[npe4411]

By OSU I should clarify it as Ohio St., also my field is chemistry in case that wasn't clear either. Thanks a lot for the responses everyone! In my case I don't view WashU as a huge step down (it's 33 overall to OSU's 26 and A&M's 19 overall and 6th for inorganic). Once I visit the schools I'm sure I'll have a better idea of what choice to make once I visit everywhere, but it's still an issue that has been bothering me nonetheless (if I get into UT-Austin it is 12 overall). My heart is telling me I would prefer St. Louis by a landslide (multiple friends and family nearby and I like the idea of a bigger city) but my mind is telling me I shouldn't just use confirmation bias through desire to be in the town to cloud my judgment in choosing the best school. I can definitely see both sides of the argument and again I appreciate everyone's input.

[Boba felt]

I would visit both. Washington University in St. Louis has a beautiful campus. Plus of a big city are real though, more nightlife etc. friends of mine that went to ohio loved it, very big 12 atmosphere that can be fun. These campuses are so different, but hard to describe well here. I like both but for different reasons, thus why you need to visit

[thegirldetective]

I think location "should" matter as much as you want it to matter. Don't let other people tell you how to prioritize your life. Many academics, especially those who are already in nice established positions, tend to recommend to students to put their studies/career first instead of worrying about location. But I don't think this would be very good advice for me. Personally, I have to live in a big enough city to support a diverse population, especially for the availability of ethnic grocery stores and not feeling like an outsider. I also dislike living in college towns. I learned a lot of what I liked from my experience living in a place I did not like for 2 years during my Masters. 

 

In making my PhD decision, I weighed all non-academic reasons (e.g. location) and academic reasons (e.g. research fit) equally. But that's just how my priorities go. I think too many students unnecessarily feel "guilty" for considering any reason other than academic ones and I think this should not happen!

 

I agree with this, and it is consistent with the advice I have gotten from many current grad student friends.

 

Will you be working a lot? Of course. But you won't literally be locked in a room with no contact to the outside world for 5 years. And those precious few hours outside of the lab will be VERY important for you to recharge your batteries, so make sure wherever you are going is going to give you what you need.

 

Like TakeruK said: Weigh location exactly as much as you want to, and don't feel guilty about it.

[phdcandidate022014]

Of course location is important.  But the locational consideration differs depending on a number of factors.  These will vary depending on your social interests, your field of study, and your profile (single, married, married with family, single with family).  For one thing, it isn't realistic to assume that because you're "always doing work" as a grad student that these ancillary things don't matter.  You will still have friends, you will have activities outside of school, you will have considerations that must look at your time after school. In these points below I'm only talking about geographic location, not location as it refers to the quality or ranking of the school.

 

Is a vibrant night life important to you?  Then yes, location is important.  If this doesn't matter to you, then location in this respect would be less important to you.

 

Do you have a family? Then location matters because of schools and neighborhood and having other families around would be important.  If you don't have a family, then perhaps having family-friendly atmosphere or great preschools, elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools would be less important.

 

Is the school located in an area with thriving industry that is relevant to your field of study?  If you're not going into academia, this would be an important factor because those industries would likely have ties to people at the university (including your advisory committee) and thus your potential pool of employers would be larger.  If you're going into academia and planning to try to catch on at the school you're studying, this could be important because your research could have ties with local industry.

 

If you want to get into a thriving startup culture, yes, location is important.  There are numerous studies that have demonstrated the impact of certain locations on the number of startups or the pieces in place to encourage startups (e.g., incubators, access to capital, talent pool available for staffing startups).

[MadtownJacket]

Location definitely matters the most to me, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone.  I was just fortunate to have been accepted to two great programs, so I didn't feel bad about choosing one over the other because of location.

[juilletmercredi]

I disagree with your uncle.  The answer really depends on your PI and your program.  Yes, in the first two years of your program you'll be very swamped, but that doesn't mean you won't get time to make a short weekend visit home.  And I'm currently dissertating and I could pop home for a week and work from my family's home, if I wanted to, if we were in short driving distance.  I miss my family sometimes and it would be really nice to be close to home.

I pretty much work something like 6-10 hours per day depending on my mood and how swamped I am, and take 1-2 days off per week, so no, I am not so busy that location doesn't matter.  Even in my first two years when I consistently worked 10-12 hour days 6 days a week, I was not so busy that location didn't matter.  I feel that this is a very persistent myth.  People would never say that to a person considering where to live to be a physician, a lawyer, a management consultant, etc., and those are very busy professions, too.  Location absolutely does matter.  You don't want to attend anywhere you will be miserable, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be close to family or the mountains for hiking or a beach because you're an avid surfer.  I also personally needed to be nearby an urban area because my research population primarily lives in urban areas.

BUUUUT my opinion is that your very first priority should be the reputation and fit of your program.  Which program will be the best research fit for you?  Which program will get you to your career goals better?  My current program is 900 miles away from my family, so I do miss them, but that's what planes are for.  Plus, I feel like the less flexibility you allow yourself earlier in your career, the more you have later on.  A better-reputed program with a more well-known PI and better placement may give you the opportunity to get a job in Missouri or close by later, which would be better than being there temporarily.

FWIW, though, location was very important to me.  I refused to go anywhere I couldn't see myself living for 5 years - but I expanded my definition of that considerably and tried to remain open-minded.  For example, while a small college town wasn't my ideal, I could see myself living in one for a few years to get a degree without being miserable.  I just didn't want to be in a very rural area, for example.  Next year I'll be taking a postdoc in a small college town, and I'm looking forward to it even though I've always lived within 30 minutes of a large city.

[zipykido]

For me location did matter, but only so far as region rather than specific city. I live about 1.5 hours from my family and I've found that I can take the occasional weekend trip to visit them without a huge issue, since I can still be productive even when I'm not in lab (planning experiments for the week, reading papers, problem sets, etc). Nightlife isn't really important to me so I did not take that into consideration but if you're so swamped as a grad student that you can't plan a weekend off every now and then you're going to burn yourself out very fast.