Rejection thread

[philosophe]

I seriously hate how the arizona rejects are trickling

[bar_scene_gambler]

I also just got an Emory rejection. Wasn't high on my list, and if I end up at Georgia State I think I can take a class or two there anyways...perhaps that's some consolation.

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Hey, maybe we'll both end up at GSU. I'll buy the first drink.

[nietzschemarket]

Received a boilerplate rejection letter by pony express from Pittsburgh's HPS program today. First I've heard from anywhere though, so that's a plus

[bar_scene_gambler]

Received a boilerplate rejection letter by pony express from Pittsburgh's HPS program today. First I've heard from anywhere though, so that's a plus

Your username is nietzschemarket but you're interesting in Phil of Science? You're blowing my mind right now dude/ette.

[nietzschemarket]

Hah, well I do have a great fondness for Nietzsche, but it's sort of a throwaway pun rather than a deep part of my identity. Not to mention N's got a lot to say about the history of science! I actually see him as prescient of Kuhn in some ways...

 

EDIT: I'm thinking of 'Human, All too Human' in particular. Sorry to sidetrack the depressing purpose of this thread.

Edited February 18, 2014 by nietzschemarket

[bar_scene_gambler]

Hah, well I do have a great fondness for Nietzsche, but it's sort of a throwaway pun rather than a deep part of my identity. Not to mention N's got a lot to say about the history of science! I actually see him as prescient of Kuhn in some ways...

Ohhhh. I get the pun now. I was reading it the way his name is pronounced in German, and so I couldn't see the pun. That's kind of funny actually. I thought you were referring to the madman in the market in GS or the flies of the marketplace in Z.

N has a lot to say about the history of science? I guess I never noticed it before. 

Edited February 18, 2014 by bar_scene_gambler

[nietzschemarket]

Yeah it's indubitably groan-worthy. Light-heartedness is my pharmacon for the next couple months. As I edited in above, I'm thinking of 'Human, All Too Human' when I say that Nietzsche has a lot to say about the history of science. However it sounds like you're much better read than I am so take my intuition with a grain of salt. 

[Table]

Even if Iamparem's comments are insensitive and offensive, I don't see how crude and curt responses are warranted. Comments like those only exacerbate the tension and trolling on these forums. In what way can they help?

 

The issue is not whether lamparem's comments are misguided and excessive (which, to me, I agree with you that they seem to be); the issue is with how you respond to those comments, and, as far as I can tell, those responses seem to be discourteous and unhelpful (much like lamparem's)

 

Addendum: this post should be prefaced with the observation that it seems highly unlikely one can assess someone else's capacity for philosophy based on gradcafe forum posts. If the entire reason for those comments toward lamparem's are only based on lamparem's comments on this website, then that just seems a little silly and presumptuous to me.

 

Sorry to backtrack a bit, guys, but I agree with this and I think it's important. I don't know how telling someone they have run out of options and that "it's clear that you should give up" on the basis of a few forum posts could ever be warranted. Especially in response to someone, clearly distressed, saying that they feel like they have run out of options and don't know what else to do—a sentiment I'm sure many here can relate to. It may not have been intended to be mean, but it was. You may not have meant to kick someone while they're down, but you did.

 

You're right, Ian, that lamparem needs to hear from someone who will speak honestly about his situation. That person is not you, because there's no possible way that you understand his situation. Like philophilosopher said, his forum posts don't tell us anything about his ability to succeed in philosophy. They just (if real) show a person under a great deal of stress that seems to really lack support in the discipline. My initial response to to many of his posts was frustration, but I don't think that's actually appropriate.

 

I think dfindley is really coloring people's interpretations here. I don't see the arrogance with lamparem. He's snapped a few times about his book, but I imagine I'd be a little snappy too if people responded like we have to something I considered one of my most significant achievements.

 

lamparem… It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that you don't need to rely on people, especially if you're shy, depressed, anxious, etc. It's too easy to make excuses and tell yourself little stories: You don't need to talk to professors about the application process, there's plenty of information available online. You don't need to talk to anyone about a book you're working on, you'll just wow them when it's done. They're busy. It would be rude. You're good enough to do it on your own.

I think most of us have done something like this at some point in our lives, and we've all come to regret it. We can all benefit from feedback, and you really seem to be at a point where you need to talk to someone about your worries and how to move forward if you don't get in this year. If you're not comfortable talking to your professors at this point in the admissions process, what about another MA student? You said that there are some people at CUNY who were accepted from the MA program… what about one of them? 

I said this earlier, but I also think it would be really worthwhile to talk to a therapist about your stress. There's likely low-cost mental health services available through your school. 

[philstudent1991]

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Hey, maybe we'll both end up at GSU. I'll buy the first drink.

Reached my up vote quota but that sounds like a plan!

[logos0516]

 

Sorry to backtrack a bit, guys, but I agree with this and I think it's important. I don't know how telling someone they have run out of options and that "it's clear that you should give up" on the basis of a few forum posts could ever be warranted. Especially in response to someone, clearly distressed, saying that they feel like they have run out of options and don't know what else to do—a sentiment I'm sure many here can relate to. It may not have been intended to be mean, but it was. You may not have meant to kick someone while they're down, but you did.

 

You're right, Ian, that lamparem needs to hear from someone who will speak honestly about his situation. That person is not you, because there's no possible way that you understand his situation. Like philophilosopher said, his forum posts don't tell us anything about his ability to succeed in philosophy. They just (if real) show a person under a great deal of stress that seems to really lack support in the discipline. My initial response to to many of his posts was frustration, but I don't think that's actually appropriate.

 

I think dfindley is really coloring people's interpretations here. I don't see the arrogance with lamparem. He's snapped a few times about his book, but I imagine I'd be a little snappy too if people responded like we have to something I considered one of my most significant achievements.

 

lamparem… It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that you don't need to rely on people, especially if you're shy, depressed, anxious, etc. It's too easy to make excuses and tell yourself little stories: You don't need to talk to professors about the application process, there's plenty of information available online. You don't need to talk to anyone about a book you're working on, you'll just wow them when it's done. They're busy. It would be rude. You're good enough to do it on your own.

I think most of us have done something like this at some point in our lives, and we've all come to regret it. We can all benefit from feedback, and you really seem to be at a point where you need to talk to someone about your worries and how to move forward if you don't get in this year. If you're not comfortable talking to your professors at this point in the admissions process, what about another MA student? You said that there are some people at CUNY who were accepted from the MA program… what about one of them? 

I said this earlier, but I also think it would be really worthwhile to talk to a therapist about your stress. There's likely low-cost mental health services available through your school. 

 

A fine post, thank you. And contrary to what the other guy, Mocha, I think?...said, I will never give up on philosophy. It is in my blood, and I'm the type of person that needs to do something in life that has meaning for me, and philosophy is that thing. Don't worry, I'm not taking Mocha's post seriously, he's just frustrated because I've been posting on here a lot. But I've been shut out before, and after clawing my way into a good MA program and doing as well as I can there, it would really be devastating to me to get shut out again, and that's why I feel I can't do anything more...honestly, I wouldn't know what else to do. My writing sample, on Descartes, is one of the best I've ever written. My grades in my MA program are as good as they're going to get, and they should be good enough for a good school. I'm just running out of ideas on what to do/add to my application at this point. And I'm not getting any younger. Deep down I do honestly think I'll have a good chance at the school I'm at now, but it's just *so* discouraging to be rejected and to see implied and anticipated rejections, one after the other. I confess my expectations were too high, and believe it or not, I was actually relying too much on my writing sample to carry the day, not the book, which I didn't send everywhere. I think people say good things about the book, mostly, and they've given insights I hadn't thought about. But it's really getting down to the wire for me here, so that's why I'm so despondent. If I don't get in, I'm out of options. Or at least it certainly seems that way.

[alethicethic]

Received my first rejection, from Arizona! No desert living for me, although sunny Southern California is an option...congratulations to the admits!

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

Received my first rejection, from Arizona! No desert living for me, although sunny Southern California is an option...congratulations to the admits!

Same.

 

To quote Lucille Bluth, "I'd rather be dead in California than living in Arizona." (J/K: Congrats to all Arizona admits!)

[bar_scene_gambler]

Same to both of you. I received a pretty uninspired rejection email from Arizona. Two down, 10 to go (or something like that).

[Cottagecheeseman]

Received my first rejection, from Arizona! No desert living for me, although sunny Southern California is an option...congratulations to the admits!

Well I guess it's good to know that even the mighty can take a beating! I hope that Arizona wasn't your first choice at least.

[Hypatience]

Is there anyone else who has yet to hear back from UNC at all, rejection or otherwise?

[humean_skeptic]

Is there anyone else who has yet to hear back from UNC at all, rejection or otherwise?

 

As a precaution, I suggest checking your Junk/Spam folder in your email account, as well as doing a word search for UNC in all your received emails. Just in case. 

[Hypatience]

Done all of that, and even checked the website! 

Edited February 19, 2014 by Hypatience

[ianfaircloud]

[ . . . ]

 

You're right, Ian, that lamparem needs to hear from someone who will speak honestly about his situation. That person is not you, because there's no possible way that you understand his situation. Like philophilosopher said, his forum posts don't tell us anything about his ability to succeed in philosophy. They just (if real) show a person under a great deal of stress that seems to really lack support in the discipline. My initial response to to many of his posts was frustration, but I don't think that's actually appropriate.

 

[ . . . ]

 

Table, I appreciate your passionate and thoughtful response to my post. I can see that you feel strongly about this, and I want to respect you and anyone else who disagrees with my approach.

 

I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with you. I do think, given the Iamparem's situation as he has described it, that it could be helpful to him to hear some candid advice. I understand that you don't think that there's enough information to offer the advice that I gave. I disagree with that, too. But again, I think a reasonable person could believe otherwise.

 

I also want to point out something (again) about my advice. I intended something beyond the effect of the words taken literally. The illocutionary force of the speech was the intention to encourage Iamparem to reassess the situation. Iamparem's suggestion, which I took seriously, was that he had run out of options. I understand that you think he meant this a purposeful exaggeration for effect. I read it differently. He described all of the things he had done. He mentioned that this was his third (?) application season. So I sincerely hoped that at the very least, my "advice" would prompt Iamparem to assess the situation.

 

What I did not aim to do was to jerk someone around. I spoke with honesty, and others commented that they felt the honesty was appropriate (though obviously controversial).

 

Now in a separate post, I criticized Iamparem for the offensive nature of his comments. That, to me, is a more serious concern. How could anyone hope to do well in philosophy with this attitude? And so I do stand by this.

 

But again, I appreciate your thoughtful and sincere reply to my post. And I understand that reasonable people will disagree with me.

[Edit_Undo]

Just a heads up... lamparem changed his/her account name to logos0516

If you ask me, that's another sign that lamparem is a troll.

[ianfaircloud]

Just a heads up... lamparem changed his/her account name to logos0516

If you ask me, that's another sign that lamparem is a troll.

 

I wondered what happened to all those posts! The name has changed. Got it.

[MongooseMayhem]

Any word on UCSD rejections?

[philstudent1991]

Any word on UCSD rejections?

I've been wondering the same thing. No, no word so far.

 

Also, to weigh in on the whether faircloud crossed the line or not debate...I'm gonna have to go with no. Raising the issue of whether philosophy really is logos calling is a fair point, and honestly one that his real world friends may be hesitant to raise. I think we need to be honest with each other here, even if the truth hurts. I am glad people have been honest with me on here, pointing out that my chances are slim coming from a non prestigious school and those sorts of points, because that is really important for me to know and it influenced how I targeted my applications. In the end, I think it's best to know the truth, even if the truth sucks.

[objectivityofcontradiction]

Any word on UCSD rejections?

 

I am assuming a rejection for myself. But a quick look at last year shows posters not receiving a rejection notice until 3-4 weeks after the acceptances went out. So, given when they were released this year, I'll guess rejections come out next week or the week after. Unfortunately, I think we can expect such examples of poor tact from several schools. But hey, maybe they are still working on a wait-list as well. 

Edited February 19, 2014 by objectivityofcontradiction

[mrs_doubtfire]

 

I don't know how telling someone they have run out of options and that "it's clear that you should give up" on the basis of a few forum posts could ever be warranted. Especially in response to someone, clearly distressed, saying that they feel like they have run out of options and don't know what else to do—a sentiment I'm sure many here can relate to. It may not have been intended to be mean, but it was. 

 

You're right, Ian, that lamparem needs to hear from someone who will speak honestly about his situation. That person is not you, because there's no possible way that you understand his situation. Like philophilosopher said, his forum posts don't tell us anything about his ability to succeed in philosophy. They just (if real) show a person under a great deal of stress that seems to really lack support in the discipline.

 

I'll defend Ian. 

 

First, with respect to iamparem's prospects in philosophy, I think Ian's comment was warranted. When you're asking and giving advice on this kind of medium, it's a given that you don't have all of the relevant information. So you give your advice based on what you are given, which is the poster's own assessment of his or her situation. And judging by iamparem's own assessment of his or her situation (e.g. the fact that parem wrote a book, is currently attending an unfunded master's program, and is in her second or third round of applications), I think it's fair to conclude that he or she needs to sit down and really think about whether philosophy is a viable career. Now if you think the answer to this is yes, what would you recommend parem to do before he or she re-applies? Go for another unfunded master's? Get a master's in a field other than philosophy? Try to write another book? Take a year off and master philosophy's greatest hits? Each of these options costs significant time and money and none of them alone guarantees better admission results and so I hesitate to offer any of them as "advice" to someone who is desperate need of it. And because I don't consider empty bromides like "You'll get there eventually!" or "Just hang in there!" as advice, I'm disposed to say that parem should put philosophy on hold until he or she figures out how to seriously improve his or her application. 

 

I've met a few people who had to apply three or four times before they went on to gain admission to top-20 and top-10 programs. If you were to talk to these people, you'd notice how mature and honest they are about their applications. Most of them readily admit that their first and second rounds of applications were weak--that they had no idea what they were doing. But they didn't give up and eventually, were able to put together a strong application. So there's some precedent for killing the admissions process after a few shut-outs. But the applicants here usually go through some sort of change in perspective. 

 

 

 

My initial response to to many of his posts was frustration, but I don't think that's actually appropriate.

 

...[parem's] snapped a few times about his book, but I imagine I'd be a little snappy too if people responded like we have to something I considered one of my most significant achievements.

 

Now to the tone of Parem's comments. I strongly agree with Ian that parem's comments are offensive and hateful. I understand that Parem is frustrated and anxious, but I don't see how these facts excuse the hostile tone of his comments. It's okay to vent your frustrations; it's not okay to leave inflammatory comments for people who disagree with what you say. So I think it's asking a lot of the community to (1) tolerate parem's comments by ignoring their offensive tone AND (2) to ask us to give parem helpful AND courteous advice in response to these kinds of comments. 

 

As a side note, I personally think parem's sour attitude makes him a less than ideal academic. I mean he's threatened to take action against letter writers who gave him anything less than stellar reviews. I don't know about you, but I think this kind of attitude shouldn't have a home in academia. 

[philophilosopher]

I think you are completely straw-manning the opposition to Ianfaircloud's responses to Iamparem. You accurately describe the lack of information about Iamparem as a candidate; you indicate that the only possible information about Iamparem is the info we have based on his/her gradcafe posts. You then conclude that it is fair to offer advice and judgment based solely on that information, such as Ianfaircloud's advice.

 

There is a logical leap that I am not following here. I don't think any advice can and should be offered regarding Iamparem's situation because we simply do not know enough about Iamparem's capability as a student and a thinker. So, the ideal alternative in this situation, is to respond to Iamparem stating that we cannot comment on his situation and we do not wish to engage in useless, groundless speculation. Do you see how that is different than what you described?

 

Again, this issue is not necessarily about the quality of lamparem's comments, which most of us can agree (I hope) are either trolling or indicative of someone extremely stressed. It is about the ungrounded responses to those comments that completely condemn lamparem's ability as a potential PhD student in philosophy. No one is asking to tolerate lamparem's comments. But we are asking that preposterous or inoffensive comments should not be met with exaggerated acrimony and unnecessary hostility. Offensive comments should be ignored and/or disregarded because they add nothing to the dialogue or discussion. In what way can offensive responses to offensive comments be justified and contribute substantially to the current discussion?