FeministLibrarian Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Again, this issue is not necessarily about the quality of lamparem's comments, which most of us can agree (I hope) are either trolling or indicative of someone extremely stressed. It is about the ungrounded responses to those comments that completely condemn lamparem's ability as a potential PhD student in philosophy. No one is asking to tolerate lamparem's comments. But we are asking that preposterous or inoffensive comments should not be met with exaggerated acrimony and unnecessary hostility. Offensive comments should be ignored and/or disregarded because they add nothing to the dialogue or discussion. In what way can offensive responses to offensive comments be justified and contribute substantially to the current discussion? What's the difference between ignoring an offensive comment and tolerating an offensive comment? iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philophilosopher Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sorry, that was unclear. I just mean that no one (as far as I am aware) is asking that lamparem's comments necessarily be met with encouragement or "empty bromides." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs_doubtfire Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's just false that we can't offer any advice to parem given what he or she has said. If that were true, then what's the point of this forum? Parem gave us a few data points to work and so I don't see the problem with drawing a line of best fit through those data points and giving advice with the qualification that the advice was grounded only on those data points. The advice isn't going to have the shape of a valid inference, but it's far from being ungrounded. So I guess I also deny that such advice is ungrounded. I'd be happy to follow your suggestion and suspend judgment on parem's situation. But I think that'd be unhelpful to parem and I'd like to be helpful if I can. But we are asking that preposterous or inoffensive comments should not be met with exaggerated acrimony and unnecessary hostility. Offensive comments should be ignored and/or disregarded because they add nothing to the dialogue or discussion. In what way can offensive responses to offensive comments be justified and contribute substantially to the current discussion? This sounds a lot like an invitation to ignore the offensive nature of parem's comments. Plus, do you really think that parem's implication that people with autism are unfit to be professors is inoffensive? I'm not advocating that people respond with equally nasty comments for parem. And if memory serves, the only person who has thrown invectives around is parem. I'm just pointing out that it's more than okay to tell parem that his or her comments are offensive and unproductive. I think this'll be my last post regarding parem. Time to return this thread to its original topic. But I do appreciate the civil response you gave me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Establishment Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think you are completely straw-manning the opposition to Ianfaircloud's responses to Iamparem. You accurately describe the lack of information about Iamparem as a candidate; you indicate that the only possible information about Iamparem is the info we have based on his/her gradcafe posts. You then conclude that it is fair to offer advice and judgment based solely on that information, such as Ianfaircloud's advice. There is a logical leap that I am not following here. I don't think any advice can and should be offered regarding Iamparem's situation because we simply do not know enough about Iamparem's capability as a student and a thinker. So, the ideal alternative in this situation, is to respond to Iamparem stating that we cannot comment on his situation and we do not wish to engage in useless, groundless speculation. Do you see how that is different than what you described? Again, this issue is not necessarily about the quality of lamparem's comments, which most of us can agree (I hope) are either trolling or indicative of someone extremely stressed. It is about the ungrounded responses to those comments that completely condemn lamparem's ability as a potential PhD student in philosophy. No one is asking to tolerate lamparem's comments. But we are asking that preposterous or inoffensive comments should not be met with exaggerated acrimony and unnecessary hostility. Offensive comments should be ignored and/or disregarded because they add nothing to the dialogue or discussion. In what way can offensive responses to offensive comments be justified and contribute substantially to the current discussion? (1) The responses given have not at all been ungrounded. There's been quite a bit of information released about lamparem. (2) We don't know enough about about any poster's capabilities here, and yet we give advice to the best of our ability all the time. If a candidate has quite low GPA and GRE scores, we become worried they might not make it past the first cut. If a candidate comes from a non-prestigious program, we encourage them to apply to more than just top-20 programs. If a candidate self-publishes a book and doesn't have 3 letter writers, we tell them they don't have a shot. If a candidate comes from an unfunded MA program and thinks it wise to send in a book from a non-academic philosophy press (and, I wasn't aware of this, is on their second or third application cycle?), we find their chances of success suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs_doubtfire Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 What's the difference between ignoring an offensive comment and tolerating an offensive comment? I reached my quota for up-voting, but this was my thought exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philophilosopher Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Sure, sure, sure. I see what you all are saying so I guess I should offer a couple of points of clarification and a little bit of backtracking (sorry!). So, when I wrote "inoffensive" in that section you quoted, that was a major typo; I meant offensive and I do think the comments you reference were offensive. And obviously, as you are aware, there is a difference between responding to those comments and indicating that they are inappropriate and unacceptable (which, in this case, Ianfaircloud did aptly) versus responding in kind with offensive remarks. I do see how my comments seem extreme and I think I may have overstepped and extrapolated a little too far. Definitely one of the benefits of this forum is being able to offer some advice in certain situations. But, it still baffles me that anybody think that they can arrive at the conclusion that someone (e.g. Iamparem) should quit studying philosophy or not pursue graduate study based solely on gradcafe posts. This kind of conclusion is absolutely fallacious and ungrounded given the evidence. We have all seen the range of GRE and GPA scores, quality of alma-mater, etc. that many students come from and where they end up going. lamparem's stats are definitely within that range. Given the statistical data and the relative familiarity with the history of admissions, I completely see evaluations and conjectures about where a possible student will go as legitimate and grounded. (This is where I overstepped, FYI). But, in no way can someone conclude that another applicant should abandon the pursuit of graduate studies. . . Edited February 19, 2014 by philophilosopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Who cares? Seriously. This has gotten way out of hand. First it was dfindley, now this. Someone made a comment you disagree with? Great, downvote and move on. Can we stop bickering for page upon page over little shit that doesn't matter and will inevitably stress out already stressed people? It's beyond childish. You know what? I have a suggestion. If you guys want to sit around and bicker about comments that you disagree with, start a new thread on the topic and talk about it there. But some of us just want to check this thread for rejection notices. Edited February 19, 2014 by bar_scene_gambler nietzschemarket, philophilosopher, Cottagecheeseman and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philophilosopher Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Meow bar_scene_gambler, wildc4t, murial and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Who cares? Seriously. This has gotten way out of hand. First it was dfindley, now this. Someone made a comment you disagree with? Great, downvote and move on. Can we stop bickering for page upon page over little shit that doesn't matter and will inevitably stress out already stressed people? It's beyond childish. You know what? I have a suggestion. If you guys want to sit around and bicker about comments that you disagree with, start a new thread on the topic and talk about it there. But some of us just want to check this thread for rejection notices. This forum should be a place of support and talking about results. Not a place for people to bicker with one another and to show of their insecurity by posting hundreds of threads about topics we already had talked about. Seriously people, grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) It is now a waiting game on the Pitt HPS rejections. They are coming by mail, so they could come any time this week. How long can I dodge them! Hopefully forever! Edited February 19, 2014 by TheVineyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianfaircloud Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Who cares? Seriously. This has gotten way out of hand. First it was dfindley, now this. Someone made a comment you disagree with? Great, downvote and move on. Can we stop bickering for page upon page over little shit that doesn't matter and will inevitably stress out already stressed people? It's beyond childish. You know what? I have a suggestion. If you guys want to sit around and bicker about comments that you disagree with, start a new thread on the topic and talk about it there. But some of us just want to check this thread for rejection notices. This forum should be a place of support and talking about results. Not a place for people to bicker with one another and to show of their insecurity by posting hundreds of threads about topics we already had talked about. Seriously people, grow up. Completely agree. I'm not sure how we got here, but I suggest that in the future, when we see an argument coming on, let's start separate threads. The rejection and acceptances threads could be reserved for relevant posts. (I was part of the problem. I'm not saying that I wasn't.) Btw: Nobody wants to be a part of silly arguments. They start because someone says something that s/he thinks is uncontroversial, and someone else expresses disagreement. philophilosopher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Completely agree. I'm not sure how we got here, but I suggest that in the future, when we see an argument coming on, let's start separate threads. The rejection and acceptances threads could be reserved for relevant posts. (I was part of the problem. I'm not saying that I wasn't.) Btw: Nobody wants to be a part of silly arguments. They start because someone says something that s/he thinks is uncontroversial, and someone else expresses disagreement. I know. It's just that these arguments are beginning to wear a little thin. I really appreciate you being mature about all of this though, and frankly, I don't hold you as blameworthy as others because at least you seem to be hesitant to be a part of these nasty little squabbles. I think your suggestion rings sound and I hope others will decide to follow your advice. Table and philophilosopher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressedout Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Here's a contribution to this thread. Arizona rejected me by email yesterday. Yay! bar_scene_gambler, Silly_Socrates, MongooseMayhem and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Here's a contribution to this thread. Arizona rejected me by email yesterday. Yay! Yay! High five fellow rejectee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Table Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks for explaining your intent, Ian. I think it's really impossible to predict how an overstressed stranger will respond to being told they're out of options and should give up, and trying to get them to reflect does not seem worth the risk of seriously upsetting them. I don't really see how parem/logos's offensive comment is relevant here. I agree that this forum should be a place for support, which is why I and others wanted to comment on a pretty unsupportive post. Will move it to another thread next time. murial 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattDest Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Who cares? Seriously. This has gotten way out of hand. First it was dfindley, now this. Someone made a comment you disagree with? Great, downvote and move on. Can we stop bickering for page upon page over little shit that doesn't matter and will inevitably stress out already stressed people? It's beyond childish. You know what? I have a suggestion. If you guys want to sit around and bicker about comments that you disagree with, start a new thread on the topic and talk about it there. But some of us just want to check this thread for rejection notices. Shut up, stupid head. Nobody likes you or your reasonable advice. bar_scene_gambler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Shut up, stupid head. Nobody likes you or your reasonable advice. You're Literally Hitler MattDest and philophilosopher 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logos0516 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Ok, well, I see my comments have generated a LOT of responses. Let me say two (2) things: one, I apologize for the comments that people found offensive and hateful in earlier posts. There is no excuse for that type of discussion on my part, and I take full responsibility. Two, I cannot, and will not, abandon philosophy. I have always thought myself fortunate that I knew that I wanted to be a philosopher. I knew this before going to high school, and in high school, when most students didn't even know what philosophy was. I majored in it in college, and I am studying for my MA now and doing well (3.83 GPA). I feel that it is too soon to dismiss my prospects, considering (1) I have only received two official rejections, (2) I have a good shot at the Phd program from the MA program I am in, considering I am doing well there already and am getting along with the professors, and (3) one top-30 school has already indicated interest in my application, by the graduate admissions chair personally. So I personally think the discussion about leaving philosophy is a bit premature at this point, though I realize I brought that discussion on with overly emotional and hyperbolic posts. ta_pros_to_telos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Waiting to hear: Edited February 19, 2014 by philosophe carolinebk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Waiting to hear: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsrjmsRxb11qii6tmo1_500.gif Every time I check my email and I don't have any new admissions related emails. Edit: I really like this posting stupid gifs thing than arguing about stupid shit. Edited February 19, 2014 by zizeksucks MattDest, Structural_Realist and ungerdrag 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Every time I check my email and I don't have any new admissions related emails. Edit: I really like this posting stupid gifs thing than arguing about stupid shit. It's pretty great. I'm with you on the disappointment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murial Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 A lot of people have already apologised for back tracking and talking about what u have declared to be "trivial issue". I'm sure no one is going to hijack your precious thread anymore. So I guess you can stop with the bashing and forgive us that we expend so much energy on "stupid shit". logos0516, murial, Edit_Undo and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyT Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hi guys, what about Pittsburgh HPS rejections? are they real? PS: This is my first post here, I'm tired to be a silent (and sad) spectator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hi guys, what about Pittsburgh HPS rejections? are they real? PS: This is my first post here, I'm tired to be a silent (and sad) spectator. Welcome! typically if there's more than one, I assume it's real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyT Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks, Mocha. I'm wondering if they have, also, changes in their online app status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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