Strong dislike for my cohort

[mandree81]

I entered a Ph.D. program in organizational learning and leadership in fall 2013 at a regionally prestigious institution. I expected a high level of rigor given the fact that this is a doctoral program, and my master's program was relatively research and reading focused. What I have encountered in the several months since, however, has left me astonished, angry, and altogether fed up. 

In the first semester, a few cohort members came to class and just sat there the entire time, arms crossed, no notes, nothing....just looking befuddled and kind of pissy. I, and another cohort member, found ourselves basically carrying class conversations. Over time, these people would come to class and actually say out loud that they didn't read the material, which would make me mad considering that I also work full time at another university and am working so hard to come to class prepared. Needless to say, I began to separate myself from them, and when they started inviting me to gatherings outside of class to study, etc., I always declined. Two reasons I declined: 1. I have nothing to gain from working with people who have not read any content, and 2. I am annoyed by them because I think they are lazy. 

I ended last term with a 4.0 gpa, and came in to this term hoping that things would turn around. Instead, I found out that the most rigorous professor in our program is being denied tenure (no idea why) and will not be returning. To add insult to injury, I am in a small group analysis class that requires my cohort to sit in a circle every week, while being video taped, and function as a group. We have no task, mind you, we are just supposed to function and analyze what happens. A couple of the cohort members (who also happen to be the ones who said they didnt read and came to class visibly underprepared, with nothing to contribute to class discussion) have been ganging up on me every week - accusing me of being judgmental, of not supporting the cohort atmosphere, of not accepting them for who they are, etc. Mind you, I have never actually said aloud how I feel, so I am not sure why they thought all of this. My conclusion is that by always being prepared and speaking up in class I am making them feel inadequate, which would make sense.

 I am so mystified by this - why do I have to "accept you as you are" if you bring NOTHING to the cohort but silence and laziness? How am I supposed to work with people who don't even look like they are trying? Furthermore, if they ARE trying, GREAT - but it's not my responsibility to teach them. One of them actually said that she relies on me for her learning because she doesn't understand the text. 

My question is - should I just put up with this ignorance for now and remind myself that these people will most likely not complete the program? I mean, if you are unwilling or unable to read and comprehend theory, how can you expect to write a dissertation, right? Or should I try harder to be a "cohort member" and pull the slackers along? Am I being unreasonably judgmental, or this behavior really bizarre in a doctoral program? I am so bummed about this situation and could really use some advice from others who have, or are currently, in a doctoral program. Has anyone experienced this? It's getting so bad that I am actually contemplating trying to find an online program. Thanks for reading!

[bsharpe269]

I am a masters student who will be applying for doctoral programs next year but their behavoir seems pretty ridiculus to me. Who doesnt read the material before class in a graduate program? I wouldnt want to study with them either. I experience similar students in my masters program. I try to do the same as you... I have a 4.0 and try to always participate in class. On one of our hw assignments this semester, another student in the class emailed me for help on the homework on the only question that the answer comes word for word from the book. Many of the questions were hard and he would have been jsutified in wanting some help but asking for help on that question shows that he didnt read the material so I didnt respond.

 

I think that you are doing the same thing that I would do... being polite to those students but not meeting them for study groups. I dont see anything at all wrong with that reaction.

[fuzzylogician]

What you describe sounds a bit extreme. On the other hand, I have to admit that I did not always do all of the reading for all of my classes in my first year. I tried to come prepared and at least skim the articles to know what we would be talking about, and I always did the assignments, but at some point I couldn't keep up with all the readings and became quite selective with how I spent my time so as not to burn out. I wouldn't just nonchalantly admit it in class, though, and the behavior you describe from your cohort does sound out of the ordinary. 

 

However, how this behavior should affect you and your well-being in your program is questionable. How much more will you have to interact with your cohort beyond this year? Are there students in other cohorts who you get along with? Do you expect to take classes with them or have opportunities to collaborate with them? 

 

You are in a PhD program, which presumably means that at some point in the relatively near future the focus will shift from classes to research. Are there professors in your program who you like working with and can act as advisors (and later, as a dissertation committee)? I assume that they exist, because otherwise you would not have chosen to do your PhD in this program.

 

Are you able to reapply to grad schools next year and start over again? At this point it's probably too late to find a place that would take you for next year, though if there is such an opportunity (e.g. a school that accepted you last year, whose offer you declined), this is the time to informally inquire about the possibility of having them take you for next year. Reapplying or transferring would most likely mean that whatever you did this year won't count for much (if at all), and there is the possibility that you could only start over two years from now, if it's too late to find a place that will take you starting next year. 

 

So you need to ask yourself - is your program still a reasonably good fit, in terms of advising? How much will you have to interact with your cohort after this year is over and how much of a pain is it, really? I understand you are not enjoying it, but can you look past it and see a brighter future once you interact with them less? And then if you wanted to reapply to another school, does your personal situation allow you to do this? Are you able to let go of what you've done already and just start over? Without knowing more, if the only problem you are having is with your cohort, it doesn't sound like a good enough reason to leave. At some point soon, the focus will be about your research, and at that point you won't have interact with them at all. You can just distance yourself from these people, find friends in other cohorts or perhaps other programs, and just do your thing. 

[danieleWrites]

I must admit to serious bias.

You're in an organizational learning and leadership program.

So be a leader.

Don't fall for laissez faire propaganda. Soft skills are just as important as the hard skills you're getting from your program. You're not in a vo-tech; you're in grad school. Stepping up and leading doesn't mean babysitting these people; but it does mean that instead of turning down study groups because you don't see value in studying with people who haven't read the material, go to the study groups and ask them questions you've prepared in advance. Not because you should teach them, but rather because teaching is one of the most effective ways of learning. It also motivates others to think

I'm not advocating that you take responsibility for their education, or for motivating them, or for any part of their trip through a grad program. I am advocating that you find ways to turn this situation to your advantage. The nice thing about doing so is that it also helps you cohort to a minor extent. You can't do it for them, but you can show them the way. That's what leadership is about, right?

[St Andrews Lynx]

 A couple of the cohort members (who also happen to be the ones who said they didnt read and came to class visibly underprepared, with nothing to contribute to class discussion) have been ganging up on me every week - accusing me of being judgmental, of not supporting the cohort atmosphere, of not accepting them for who they are, etc. Mind you, I have never actually said aloud how I feel, so I am not sure why they thought all of this.

...You are disagreeing with their assessment of you? Based on what you've told us, their opinion of you sounds about correct. If you've not attended any of their socials, rolled your eyes when they've come to class unprepared and all of that - they've probably come to that conclusion by themselves. 

 

I don't think that remaining arrogant and aloof from the cohort is going to make things any better for you, so yeah, perhaps try to be a bit nicer. Give other people a chance to speak (at this point they might have assumed that you're going to soliloquise for the entirety of the class discussion and they don't want you sneering at them if they say something you consider too lowbrow). Ask others what they think. Keep your own contributions short. 

[rukiao]

I wasn't a fan of my cohort either...it was just High School all over again...

[Fun_Cookie]

OP sounds like an ass and I am a Type A Harvard-bound PhD student.

[rising_star]

Eh, not all cohorts get along well. I don't get along--or even speak to--most of the cohort I came in with at this point. Partly that has to due with different interests in terms of research but also because they were never all that friendly to me and, in some cases, openly mean to me at grad student meetings in the department. If this is a PhD program, your focus should be on getting through coursework as quickly as possible so you can just do your research and get out of there with your degree.

[ratlab]

OP sounds like an ass and I am a Type A Harvard-bound PhD student.

Because that gives you so much credibility?

OP in my opinion you are being a bit exclusive, but I sort of understand why. Perhaps if you do spend more time with them it will decrease the social stress at the very least.

[RedPill]

...You are disagreeing with their assessment of you? Based on what you've told us, their opinion of you sounds about correct. If you've not attended any of their socials, rolled your eyes when they've come to class unprepared and all of that - they've probably come to that conclusion by themselves. 

 

I don't think that remaining arrogant and aloof from the cohort is going to make things any better for you, so yeah, perhaps try to be a bit nicer. Give other people a chance to speak (at this point they might have assumed that you're going to soliloquise for the entirety of the class discussion and they don't want you sneering at them if they say something you consider too lowbrow). Ask others what they think. Keep your own contributions short. 

 

Agreed. You sound like a "gunner" (borrowing terminology from law and medical school)

 

Also agree with the above poster. Organizational leadership and learning? If you're not even going to help your cohort..like what is the point of your program? Consider helping/babying your cohort as an internship or something. You'll gain insightful knowledge on how to motivate and engage people who are presumably your equals and your peers.

 

Lend an olive branch. It's free. Your efforts will be repaid by virtue of said efforts.

Edited March 8, 2014 by RedPill

[NatureGurl]

Sometimes I have chosen not to actively participate in class discussions as a sort of silent protest/disapproval of the way the class was being dominated by a few "gunner" students. I speak when I have something to say that contributes to the discussion. Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut and my thoughts to myself.

[MsDarjeeling]

OP, while I'm in a non-cohort Master's program I have had similar experiences with a number of my classmates.  I am flat out appalled at those who are investing so much time and money into a graduate program and show up completely unprepared for discussions.  I can understand not reading every single article, chapter, etc.  However, it is not hard to read some of the material and have a couple of discussion questions ready to pose to the class.

 

I will admit that my reaction has been similar to yours and I too have been called judgmental and arrogant.  It should be noted I don't care lol.  I have no interest in socializing or studying with any of them, but am still polite.  I am at times asked for help on assignments and I have chosen to provide limited information.  First I reiterate what the syllabus says and what the instructor said, then I may suggest a resource that may help them get started on their research/get unstuck or a format for organizing their thoughts.  I'm currently working full time in my field so I'm happy to share my work related experiences in my classes so that everyone can learn.  I feel that is sufficient support to offer them, however.  It isn't my job to carry them through the program and if they're struggling that much then perhaps they're in the wrong place.

 

In my program I tend to spend more of my time and energy on what I need to get done and the extra projects I've taken on.  I am doing very well in my program and at my job, so I understand why classmates will ask for help.  I just don't want to get to the point where I am pretty much doing all the work for them, so I just provide limited suggestions instead.  I also don't feel like there would be equal reciprocation if I asked them for help. 

 

My guess is since this is a doctoral program, very soon most of your time will be spent on research and you'll have less class time with your cohort.  Assuming you still like your options for research advisors and projects then that is where you will focus the bulk of your attention.

[NatureGurl]

^^ Ms. D, I like your tagline (or whatever that is called). That's how I'm feeling right now about this one particular member of my cohort.

[Nerd_For_Life]

I have one cohort member who I don't get along with, but we're both professional about it. We say hi, we talk to each other when we need to, and in class we comment on and engage with each other when it is relevant to the discussion. Outside of those settings we don't interact and there is no need to. You don't need to be friends with everyone in your cohort, but you do need to be respectful and professional with them (regardless of your personal opinions about their work ethic). If they think you are coming across as arrogant and judgemental, I would take this as an opportunity for some critical self-reflection and as an opportunity to clear the air with them.

 

Or don't. You can always stay up on the pedestal you've built for yourself and continue to look down at the 'others.' But keep in mind, there will always be people in your work environment that you won't click with. Rather than let it get you down and lead you to leaving your program, use it constructively.

[bre333]

One specific thing you said in the first post is somewhat important: when they said "out loud" that they didn't do the assigned reading, were they saying it in a quite conversational aside, like "oh man I forgot to do the reading," or were they loudly announcing it to the class, like "well I didn't read this so I have nothing to say." ? Because those are two very different scenarios. If it was the latter, then I agree, that strikes me as inappropriate. However, if it was the former scenario, then I can understand why your reaction of silent eye-rolling was taken as an indicator of you being stuck-up. Additionally, your somewhat smug analysis of their behavior in class "sat there the entire time, arms crossed, no notes, nothing" rubs me the wrong way. Sitting with one's arms crossed is hardly a sign that one is unprepared or unable to take in a discussion, it may just mean that you're cold or like having your arms crossed. Additionally, you forget that not everyone learns the same way. It's clear that you're someone who learns best by taking notes and actively participating in the class discussion. Not everyone learns that way. Some people find that the process of taking notes distracts them from the gist of what's being said, and if the class's structure is a discussion rather than a lecture, I can see why someone might not opt to take notes. Similarly, some people just do not enjoy speaking up in class.

Keep in mind that your experience with these people has thus far been limited to a single semester. People have the capacity for growth. If you choose to permanently deign certain people as not worth your time, don't be surprised if they do the same to you. 

[bsharpe269]

I disagree with some of the above comments. I am the sort of student who does best by listening to lectures instead of taking notes but I am sit there, in the front row, following along in my book, answering questions. I think that this sort of behavoir is very different than the students she describes. There are students on my program who act like she describes and I dont get it at all. I was actually talking to the TA of one of my classes today and he mentioned that plenty of students in the class didnt submit some of the assignments. I dont study with these sorts of students either. I have a group of friends who all make straight As and work very hard and they are the ones I meet with to check over assignments or ask study. I think the OP is justified for her reaction to their behavoir.