Dr. Old Bill Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Hm, I'm thinking sestina... Sorry to hear about all the rejections. Starting to think all of us Ivy rejects should get together for off-brand caviar and champagne some time... You know what? I've never written a sestina. I know I could...but I just haven't. Maybe this application season will give me cause write one with the end-words of sorrow, despair, failure, rejection, disappointment, and academia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgt28 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Lycidas, hypervodka, ProfLorax and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Q84 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Agree... walking back my original comment. I wholeheartedly endorse the preservation of our right to complain, organize, and act. No worries. I get what you were trying to say to begin with, though. We certainly have it a lot better than dishwashers... Also, interesting conversation about capitalism and the academy! I think it might be too simplistic to equate capitalism with evil, though. It has its flaws, but works pretty well in many respects. (Just not in valuing humanities research, maybe.) I think what's most interesting (and insidious) is how capital(ism) does such a good job of convincing us that this is true. Argh want to upvote so hard... Edited February 18, 2015 by 1Q84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You know what? I've never written a sestina. I know I could...but I just haven't. Maybe this application season will give me cause write one with the end-words of sorrow, despair, failure, rejection, disappointment, and academia. sestinas are awesome. I've written one to completion. So I've definitely written more about them than I've actually written them. Definitely worth it to check out some of OuLiPo's many variations on the form... One could quite feasibly write an n-ina using the schools one has been rejected from as the end-words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think what's most interesting (and insidious) is how capital(ism) does such a good job of convincing us that this is true. Mark Fisher -- Capitalist Realism... decent analysis of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 One could quite feasibly write an n-ina using the schools one has been rejected from as the end-words. Don't tempt me. Seriously. That sucker will wind up being seventeen stanzas of sixteen lines each if I do. MUST. NOT. ATTEMPT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Don't tempt me. Seriously. That sucker will wind up being seventeen stanzas of sixteen lines each if I do. MUST. NOT. ATTEMPT... Quite the poetic feat though! It would make a great SOP for MFA programs... (lol I kid... chin up, WT, we'll make it through this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazaria Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Whoever wrote the #sorrynotsorry hashtag in reference to the Brown rejection on the board made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Quite the poetic feat though! It would make a great SOP for MFA programs... (lol I kid... chin up, WT, we'll make it through this) You have a point... I'm actually in remarkably good spirits, considering my abysmal fortunes with getting into any of my chosen Ph.D. programs. I'm just glad I have a very strong backup plan now, with the UMD M.A. acceptance. It's impossible to describe how much that helps one's psyche, even in the face of rampant rejection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLeonard Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Got my official rejection from Princeton today. I'm trying to be game about it but this one was particularly painful because I really liked the campus/environment when I visited, and it's one of the last schools (Rutgers is the other) where my wife and I wouldn't have had to move. Granted, I heard that it's hard for American lit students there, and I still have one of my top 3 choices to hear from, but yeah, dark night of the soul right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlymoreanonymous Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Not to derail from the dark night of the soul stuff (sorry BLeonard!) but I'm curious as to what your proposed substitute is for capitalism? I'm an econ student at a very heterodox department, so I've read Keynes, Hayek, Marx, etc, and while I absolutely disagree with some of the fundamentals of Neoclassical models, I'm still unsure of a viable alternative completely divorced from capitalism. Collaboratives (like Mondragon in Spain) have their benefits, but still operate on basic assumptions regarding price, production, etc. And please don't tear me to shreds for saying this. Haha I'm with everyone on the emotional roller coaster that is the grad app process and so perhaps unduly sensitive to the opinions of others. pannpann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Not to derail from the dark night of the soul stuff (sorry BLeonard!) but I'm curious as to what your proposed substitute is for capitalism? I'm an econ student at a very heterodox department, so I've read Keynes, Hayek, Marx, etc, and while I absolutely disagree with some of the fundamentals of Neoclassical models, I'm still unsure of a viable alternative completely divorced from capitalism. Collaboratives (like Mondragon in Spain) have their benefits, but still operate on basic assumptions regarding price, production, etc. And please don't tear me to shreds for saying this. Haha I'm with everyone on the emotional roller coaster that is the grad app process and so perhaps unduly sensitive to the opinions of others. Really not sure this is the right forum to delve into issues like this, to be honest. It's a door that just doesn't need to be opened. We all have our views, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo449 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 V briefly, because it's late and I think over pm might be a bit better, but the reason capitalism is blamed is because the current, highly deregulated model we have been following allows for and emphasizes capital accumulation over public good. I don't think this is even that Marxist (and I work with a Marxist emphasis)--it's even the point of Pickety's recent book. But this is why the forum (and the humanities broadly) complain A LOT about capitalism, in very broad and rough strokes. Ramus and pannpann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlymoreanonymous Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Really not sure this is the right forum to delve into issues like this, to be honest. It's a door that just doesn't need to be opened. We all have our views, after all. Good point, WT. I redact my previous post. Haha commence usual grad school discussion/celebration/condolences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>>> Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 i blame realism echo449 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
>>> Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 especially the highly deregulated mode of realism which emphasizes the accumulation of the real over public dejection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifealive Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Yes, Academia is super tiered and ruled by hierarchy. Economically, the system is completely broken. The elitism of the universities, though, extends, as empress-marmot implies, to individuals as well. That includes us. The statistics about jobs include a bias that extends to the way we look for jobs: we cherish the "dream jobs" off TT gigs at R1 schools. We have to stop feeling entitled to that. I can think of no other industry (and yes, it is an industry) where people expect that getting the dream is the norm -- we need to start diversifying and becoming more flexible just anyone else. I dunno. I think the job market won't be easy for anyone. Some "Lower tier" schools have benefits that "elites" don't -- more teacher training, more workshops and resources for job searching (including for alt-ac and non-ac jobs) and, in general, from what I can tell, more realistic outlooks. It's something I'm definitely considering as I consider my "differently tiered" offers (OSU and UChicago). I know you've since followed up on this, but I just want to weigh in, since I've actually been on the academic job market ... I don't know if I'd call the hope of getting a good TT job an entitlement. I think that even calling it a "dream job" is problematic. So many of these jobs--even the really good ones--are just not that great in terms of what they offer us materially, i.e. the ratio of benefits/salary to expectations of productivity is crappy. The pay scale for TT professors is absolutely appalling--and I say this as someone who previously worked in nonprofit (so I know a thing or two about being "low-balled" in the interview room). I know that's not what you were talking about, and I know that no one goes into this line of work for the money, but I did just want to make this point if only because the "dream job" argument is one that university administrators make to deliberately keep the pay scale so low. It's all "well, this is the dream job! A TT job! So you should be happy to take whatever we're offering because you love to do this! And by the way, we have people lined up around the block, so if you make any noise about wanting more, we'll just rescind your offer!" It's pretty awful, actually. I know someone who got a really low-ball offer from a school in NYC, and they tried to justify paying him so little with the argument that the city offers such "cultural riches" so he should just be happy to get the opportunity. So, I just wanted to clarify this point, because I think that so many of us get into this mindset where we think we'll be just so lucky to land that "dream job." And truth be told, you ARE lucky if you land a TT job--really lucky. But it's also okay to want more. it's okay to say "I'm worth more than this," or "just because my position is teaching-focused, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't get paid as much as my research-focused colleagues." Yeah, there definitely are the really entitled people out there who have skewed expectations about the job market, and they are f'ing obnoxious. But we should be careful not to tilt to far to the other side of the spectrum, which might set us up to be exceedingly accommodating and deferential to the neoliberal university, i.e. "just be grateful that you have a job." Edited February 19, 2015 by lifealive ProfLorax, hypervodka, lazaria and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__________________________ Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thanks for clarifying, lifealive. Your perspective is clearly more informed than mine on that matter. I meant it partially more rhetorically, but you're right-- academics, and educators in general, are criminally underappreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifealive Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks for clarifying, lifealive. Your perspective is clearly more informed than mine on that matter. I meant it partially more rhetorically, but you're right-- academics, and educators in general, are criminally underappreciated. And your original post was completely valid. You were absolutely right about the necessity to not look at a certain type of job as an entitlement just because you're coming out of a certain type of program. I've heard people actually say things like, "I got into X Program, now I can write my own ticket." When really, there are so few TT R1 jobs these days that not even a PhD from the best school in the country means you'll get a job. But I just wanted to make clear that the opposite side of that attitude--that any job is a "dream job"--can also set one up for disappointment. __________________________ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncanny Kenna Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm really sorry to hear so many of you received rejections from schools you really wanted. I have now been rejected from Brown and Pittsburgh. Although, really, I'm a popculture/film/lit studies person, so more prestigious universities are a little hesitant about my research interests. I did see something weird today, though. I applied to Middle Tennessee State University on a whim because they offer a good focus in pop culture studies. I check my application status today (I haven't gotten any official word back yet), and my status reads "Program admission initiated." WTF does that even mean?? Does that mean they've started looking at my application? Does it mean I've at least gotten into one school? I feel like I'm going to throw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramus Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I did see something weird today, though. I applied to Middle Tennessee State University on a whim because they offer a good focus in pop culture studies. I check my application status today (I haven't gotten any official word back yet), and my status reads "Program admission initiated." WTF does that even mean?? Does that mean they've started looking at my application? Does it mean I've at least gotten into one school? I feel like I'm going to throw up. This is just a guess, but I think it's a good sign. I know it's anxiety-inducing now, but give it a week or so. If your status hasn't changed by then, given their department a call and ask them for the 411. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncanny Kenna Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks, Ramus. I think you're probably right. I'll try to stop freaking out. I think I'm having what my adviser calls "impostor syndrome." Two formal, slightly rude rejections in the span of two days has pretty much convinced me I'm a sack of trash and that it's a fluke I made it this far. See Fig. 1 below. (I simultaneously realize this probably isn't true, but you know how it goes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmt Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm really sorry to hear so many of you received rejections from schools you really wanted. I have now been rejected from Brown and Pittsburgh. Although, really, I'm a popculture/film/lit studies person, so more prestigious universities are a little hesitant about my research interests. I did see something weird today, though. I applied to Middle Tennessee State University on a whim because they offer a good focus in pop culture studies. I check my application status today (I haven't gotten any official word back yet), and my status reads "Program admission initiated." WTF does that even mean?? Does that mean they've started looking at my application? Does it mean I've at least gotten into one school? I feel like I'm going to throw up. Sorry for the rejections, and here's hoping on MIddle Tennessee SU. Did Pittsburgh accept *anyone*? I've only seen rejections. It looks like a good program, but there is the matter of diminishing returns, as these programs accept fewer and fewer people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineNC Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm really sorry to hear so many of you received rejections from schools you really wanted. I have now been rejected from Brown and Pittsburgh. Although, really, I'm a popculture/film/lit studies person, so more prestigious universities are a little hesitant about my research interests. I did see something weird today, though. I applied to Middle Tennessee State University on a whim because they offer a good focus in pop culture studies. I check my application status today (I haven't gotten any official word back yet), and my status reads "Program admission initiated." WTF does that even mean?? Does that mean they've started looking at my application? Does it mean I've at least gotten into one school? I feel like I'm going to throw up. Don't let this arbitrary, ridiculous process make you feel bad about yourself. And honestly, you've only heard from two schools. This is far from over for you. And if by chance it doesn't work out this time, you focus in and try again. This is what many, many people have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Old Bill Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 And if by chance it doesn't work out this time, you focus in and try again. This is what many, many people have to do. *raises hand* CarolineKS is spot-on, of course. I was getting downright miserable until I got the M.A. acceptance at UMD. Even though I applied to seventeen (!) Ph.D. programs, and had a LOT of confidence that I would get in somewhere (for good reason, I think), it looks as though I will be shut out. Yet as the days go by, I find myself more and more at peace with that fact, even though I'm older than most folks here (and thereby have a narrower window to get a doctorate, establish myself etc.) I could easily sit around and mope about it, but instead I'm going to dedicate myself to the unexpected pursuit of an M.A. and work on any areas that might have been weaknesses in my application. In other words (Caroline's words), I'm going to focus in and try again. I should also point out that before acceptances and rejections started filing in, I had convinced myself that this would be my "one shot" at getting a Ph.D. I now realize how myopic and narrow-minded that was. It's more of a blow to the ego than anything. I find, when I really examine what I'm upset about, that I'm more disappointed in how self-assured I was about it all, and how I just assumed that my overall package was strong enough to get me into at least one program. In my heart of hearts, I expected to have options. This past month or so has given me a rather Boethian lesson...one that I (unlike Boethius) hope to have the chance to fully learn from and apply to my own future endeavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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