Waiting it out: Munk School MGA (Toronto) Fall 2015

[Kamins0d]

Personally from the US, and chose U of T over UCL. A 2 year program is also a lot more worth it, for the same price as a 1 year program in the UK. I've heard than LSE is really hands off and the masters programs are just cash cows, you get a max of 15 hours per week with your professors and do nothing but study in a library. Very impersonal. The department of geography is composed of 300 masters students. It's insane. UCL Is great with teaching and one on one research. But the facilities basically suck and the reputation doesn't transcend quite well to North America. Munk however gives you a very personal hands on learning experience, and the people in the program are outstanding (meeting ambassadors, diplomats, business tycoons, etc.) the munk facility is quite gorgeous and you get a high level of prestige in an already prestigious institution.

I wish I could dual with a masters in sustainability management and global affairs but I'm gonna take a couple munk classes for fun.

Also one more mote, munk is young and is not comparable to Carleton, YET. But over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if munk garners a similar reputation as Cornell's IA school. Perhaps not HKS or Columbia's, but definitely up there. The school had the funding a resources to make it big. Heck it's already big after only 12-15 years!

 

 

I also wouldn't be surprised. The amount of money they've infused into the Toronto program already has a lot of students and IR professors in Canada as rating it over GSPIA in Ottawa, and nearly on par with NPSIA. I think Munk's program will especially shine because of the emphasis on the private sector. I have friends currently at Munk that love it for this reason. Currently, right now, however it's difficult to justify the 20,000 tuition on top of expensive living when NPSIA is offering nearly full funding, plus the gravitas of an established program. 

 

Additionally, a lot of Munk is a very "get out and get em" attitude. Internships are coordinated more by individual students than the program, and can be unpaid because of it. My friend said nearly half of her class ended up in unpaid internships because they were unprepared going into the program. While some of the others have found exceptionally lucrative internships, that they've been able to stay at part time while finishing their degree. In this way, I see Munk as high risk with high reward, whereas NPSIA mitigates some of that risk, but doesn't offer the opportunity to excel by comparison.

[Buffalofan4255]

So I actually think that risk/reward thing is only relevant when considering what the majority of peeps who apply into the program expect. Am I wrong to assume that the majority of IA peeps want to work in the public sector? NGOs, foreign affairs ministries, government, government consulting? Right? Stop!

Munk is different here guys! You can take classes in Rotman, the Law school, and engineering even if you wanted. The MGA is a one of a kind degree that can't be found elsewhere. Why? Because it's not just for diplomats! It's for peeps who want to work for Goldman Sachs, or the WTO, or the World Bank, or for McKinsey or BCG. Munk is something more, something bigger.

And with this larger, more diverse sect, your earnings potential increases a lot. Working for an NGO? You'll earn shit. But working for McKinsey? You are in a special place to do that.

That's why I chose the sustainability management degree at Toronto. It's an MBA with a science twist. It's interdisciplinary and I can go Into any organization and help them on sustainability. Literally anything, from coca cola, to spacex, to Tesla to the USDA, to the embassy in Tokyo. My earnings potential (thanks to climate change) is averaged between $85,000-$180 on a 25-75% scale, yes I had my experience and this degree analyzed by a company and those are the figures they gave me. My personal degree will be $25,000 CDN which is only $20,000 in USD, but munk is not that expensive! Comparatively speaking, if you went to Harvard Kennedy School, it'd cost you $45x2 = 90. Columbia, Princeton, Berkeley, Johns Hopkins, all the same thing. At Munk, you're getting an absolute STEAL. Why? Because U of T is higher ranked than Penn. Higher ranked than Johns Hopkins. Higher ranked than NYU, Northwestern, Carnegie, Brown, mcgill, LSE, and other top tier schools.

If it were me, it'd send my deposit asap. But I'd rather prefer sustainability management, more growth opportunities in the field and I get to make a difference and a more specific level. But don't shoot down Munk, I really respect those students and this is coming from an American!!

[WhiteIR]

i agree with everyone's opinion that Munk is quickly rising in reputation. With the high quality of research going on and with the business connections ever expanding, munk's reputation may likely surpass npsia soon. However, as of 2015, munk's career opportunities are still no better than npsia's. 

 

i agree 100% with Kamins0d. i met up with a professor from Munk and the way she compared npsia and Munk was essentially like this: if you're searching for connections to land a position with the federal government then npsia will meet your goals. if you're looking to gain analytic and academic skills that will give you the potential to even "change the world"  then Munk is the school for you. Just as Kamins0d said, Munk is a high-risk, high-reward sort of school. 

Edit: when i say "career opportunities" i mean typical international affairs/government career opportunities. if one is talking about more non-traditional jobs then Munk is just as good, if not better than npsia. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by WhiteIR

[jjsmithsonian99]

I don't think Munk is "high-risk, high-reward." It's more like a substantial investment in yourself with a high probability of a good return.

 

I also don't buy the NPSIA career info. First of all, the information is from 2007. You may remember that there was a global financial crisis and all big economies (except Canada) tanked. The federal government didn't hire at all. So the career placement success of Munk has to be seen in this light: amazing given the circumstances. I also couldn't find any hard figures on the NPSIA website. For all I know, it could be that of each graduating class at NPSIA, only half find decent jobs.

 

LSE (didn't apply to UCL): I've heard good and horrible things about them. Mostly they seem to live off their reputation. Zero career support. That's definitely different at NPSIA and Munk from what I've been told. And at this crazy exchange rate I'd be paying almost as much for a year in London as I'd be paying for two in Toronto including an internship somewhere else.

 

Finally, I don't want to be limited to Canada (maybe now for personal reasons, but not in the long run), and my guess it that it matters how your university is ranked if you apply somewhere in the US or Europe and they look at your résumé. Toronto is in the top-25 in all the major rankings. Carleton is ranked in the 500s.

[Buffalofan4255]

^^ yes yes yes too all! 

 

One additional thing...and this may just be a departmental thing, but what I found in the institute for management and innovation, was that all the professors, students, and staff were exceptionally friendly and nice. I visited there for an open house, and it oddly/weirdly felt like a family - a family I was applying into. I've been to a lot of open houses, but this one was just an outlier, in a good way. On top of that, everyone was so damn positive about everything. Being from the states, you dont get that at all. So then i did some more research into it, and I found out that a lot of departments at the U of T are like this (I have a lot of friends at UBC and U of T, and a lot of my faculty from my US school came from both schools as well, weirdly, none from McGill). No joke, all the academics Ive met from Canada live up to Canada's reputation as being supremely friendly. But it's not a 'southern' friendliness...that can come across as fake very easily. It's a friendliness that yearns to get to know who you are at your core. As an American, I just want to give all of Canada big hug. 

 

With all this in respect, I've noticed that Munk follows this trend. Everyone from Munk is supremely confident, yet supremely friendly and open. It makes for a school that is on top of their game, yet great to go out and grab a beer with.

 

Lastly, the marketing of the Munk school is so awesome. From the graphic design, to the websites, to the research reports, to the damn architecture of the school. Makes Munk stand out completely as the #1 place to be for Canadian international business, relations, law, science, etc. 

 

All of this combined with outstanding funding (and the U of T is now experiencing 14% gains in their $1.88 billion endowment annually), I'd further support how big of a deal an MGA investment is. 

 

Btw, I've already started 1 non profit myself, but Im planning to create a consulting startup out of my masters. I'm planning on hiring 3-5 top Munk guys for this. 

[Kamins0d]

I don't think Munk is "high-risk, high-reward." It's more like a substantial investment in yourself with a high probability of a good return.

 

I also don't buy the NPSIA career info. First of all, the information is from 2007. You may remember that there was a global financial crisis and all big economies (except Canada) tanked. The federal government didn't hire at all. So the career placement success of Munk has to be seen in this light: amazing given the circumstances. I also couldn't find any hard figures on the NPSIA website. For all I know, it could be that of each graduating class at NPSIA, only half find decent jobs.

 

LSE (didn't apply to UCL): I've heard good and horrible things about them. Mostly they seem to live off their reputation. Zero career support. That's definitely different at NPSIA and Munk from what I've been told. And at this crazy exchange rate I'd be paying almost as much for a year in London as I'd be paying for two in Toronto including an internship somewhere else.

 

Finally, I don't want to be limited to Canada (maybe now for personal reasons, but not in the long run), and my guess it that it matters how your university is ranked if you apply somewhere in the US or Europe and they look at your résumé. Toronto is in the top-25 in all the major rankings. Carleton is ranked in the 500s.

 

To say that the federal government hired no one is an exaggeration in my mind I know a number of people who've been hired into DFTAD, or as political aides. And many of the jobs listed have nothing to do with the federal or provincial government.

 

I have to agree that overall school rankings could matter though. I just don't know how much of a difference the Toronto name will make compared to NPSIA's name when it comes to international work, unless you're looking into academia. I could be wrong, but I don't put much substance behind employers caring about your school rank unless you're going into academia. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

 

I'm still on the fence, waiting for funding decisions from Toronto and SSHRC before I decide where I'll end up, so this is providing a good counter measure to my predisposition to less debt at NPSIA.

 

^^ yes yes yes too all! 

 

One additional thing...and this may just be a departmental thing, but what I found in the institute for management and innovation, was that all the professors, students, and staff were exceptionally friendly and nice. I visited there for an open house, and it oddly/weirdly felt like a family - a family I was applying into. I've been to a lot of open houses, but this one was just an outlier, in a good way. On top of that, everyone was so damn positive about everything. Being from the states, you dont get that at all. So then i did some more research into it, and I found out that a lot of departments at the U of T are like this (I have a lot of friends at UBC and U of T, and a lot of my faculty from my US school came from both schools as well, weirdly, none from McGill). No joke, all the academics Ive met from Canada live up to Canada's reputation as being supremely friendly. But it's not a 'southern' friendliness...that can come across as fake very easily. It's a friendliness that yearns to get to know who you are at your core. As an American, I just want to give all of Canada big hug. 

 

With all this in respect, I've noticed that Munk follows this trend. Everyone from Munk is supremely confident, yet supremely friendly and open. It makes for a school that is on top of their game, yet great to go out and grab a beer with.

 

Lastly, the marketing of the Munk school is so awesome. From the graphic design, to the websites, to the research reports, to the damn architecture of the school. Makes Munk stand out completely as the #1 place to be for Canadian international business, relations, law, science, etc. 

 

All of this combined with outstanding funding (and the U of T is now experiencing 14% gains in their $1.88 billion endowment annually), I'd further support how big of a deal an MGA investment is. 

 

Btw, I've already started 1 non profit myself, but Im planning to create a consulting startup out of my masters. I'm planning on hiring 3-5 top Munk guys for this. 

 

 

This is so nice to hear. As a Canadian, we can't wait for you to get here!

[lumberjack23]

Great discussion folks! 

Personally I am an international student studying in a top-notch US university, and will be applying for Munk and Munk only next year. Coming from an IR background, I always wanted to break into Mckinsey and used it as a stepping stone to greater role in international business and politics, preferably international organizations or development banks. MGA as a rising professional IR program with tonnes of resources will definitely be my first choice, not to mention Mckinsey Toronto is right on campus! 

I always have a thing for Canada. All my Canadian friends are chiller than American ones. Plus, they say Canadian girls are easy

[Buffalofan4255]

lumberjack, if youre interested in development, check out www.thinkcds.org

[jeetlebuice]

Plus, they say Canadian girls are easy

 

Ew.

[maozedong]

Ew.

 

 

I agree with jeetlebuice - ew. Have a little respect.

 

And please, stick to the topic of the forum - those kinds of comments are inappropriate.

 

Are these responses really necessary? His comment might be a little distasteful but I am sure he didn't mean any harm by it. Consider that he is an international student so there might be a cultural gap, or maybe he is just trying to develop solidarity with the guys. Either way, those responses come off as mean-spirited.

. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by maozedong

[Lexxa]

Are these responses really necessary? His comment might be a little distasteful but I am sure he didn't mean any harm by it. Consider that he is an international student so there might be a cultural gap, or maybe he is just trying to develop solidarity with the guys. Either way, those responses come off as mean-spirited.

. 

 

You've got to be kidding. 

[Buffalofan4255]

In my point of view, talking about culture in this way is totally appropriate and fine.

Here's a YouTube video on this...

[H34LTHP0L1CYN3RD]

Been lurking on here for some time, but I received an offer on Friday so I had to sign up and post!

 

No funding info, though. 

 

WRT the comments above, I wouldn't expect any less of a reaction coming from IR girls

[lumberjack23]

Mmmm, didn't expect people to react so vehemently. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but talking about dating culture is pretty common on undergrad forums and I see no harm bringing up this topic here. Admittedly I could have put more thoughts into my wording, but on my defense it was 2 something in the morning. 

 

I have no issue putting a stop to this topic if people would keep on debating whether or not my comment was appropriate. Insightful posts about Munk's prospect were popping up and I don't wanna interrupt that. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by lumberjack23

[jjsmithsonian99]

Are these responses really necessary? His comment might be a little distasteful but I am sure he didn't mean any harm by it. Consider that he is an international student so there might be a cultural gap, or maybe he is just trying to develop solidarity with the guys. Either way, those responses come off as mean-spirited.

. 

 

Not exactly a cultural gap with the US. Except that perhaps we have less of a jock or sorority/frat culture here. In any case that leads us off topic.

[Buffalofan4255]

A lot of 20-30 year olds (the typical age range for grad students) are currently looking for a partner and/or dating culture. Asking or bringing up how 'easy' hooking up is, or getting to know someone, is a totally appropriate topic. We're not 12 years old here, we're all mature and can handle that kind of discussion.

 

Btw, the US jock/sorority culture thing absolutely sucks. Leads people to lying about their personas. I've found Canada to be much more open to who you are as an individual. Bro culture sucks. 

[jjsmithsonian99]

I have to agree that overall school rankings could matter though. I just don't know how much of a difference the Toronto name will make compared to NPSIA's name when it comes to international work, unless you're looking into academia. I could be wrong, but I don't put much substance behind employers caring about your school rank unless you're going into academia. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

 

 

My sense is that especially internationally it's important because nobody outside of Canada has ever heard of Carleton or NPSIA. Actually most people outside of Canada haven't even heard of Ottawa or know that it's the capital. Also, Toronto (not Munk specifically) is ranked the highest in the country by employer reputation.

 

I'm also guessing that reputation is important in general because an LSE degree is only worth it because of the reputation, not because of the education. I mean how much can you really learn in two terms of ten weeks each? So at Munk I'm getting U of T reputation and (hopefully) a good education as well.

[Lexxa]

A lot of 20-30 year olds (the typical age range for grad students) are currently looking for a partner and/or dating culture. Asking or bringing up how 'easy' hooking up is, or getting to know someone, is a totally appropriate topic. We're not 12 years old here, we're all mature and can handle that kind of discussion.

 

Btw, the US jock/sorority culture thing absolutely sucks. Leads people to lying about their personas. I've found Canada to be much more open to who you are as an individual. Bro culture sucks. 

 

 

I was really hoping this topic would be dropped, but this is just ridiculous.

 

There's a huge difference between commenting on how "easy" an entire nations' women are (particularly in the context of choosing where to complete your advanced IR degree) and dating/relationship questions/concerns. It's degrading, disrespectful and frankly, inappropriate for this forum. 

 

It would be similarly ridiculous if I commented on preferring a school in America by suggesting "Plus, they say American men have money." 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Lexxa

[Buffalofan4255]

Not really, the video I referenced discusses the obvious social and cultural differences between Montreal and Toronto in terms of dating and openness. I don't know how it's degrading or disrespectful to recognize that. Regardless, you're obviously offended by the opinions of others, which probably going by statistics and research on casual sex encounters, is relatively true when compared to other cultures. That is, casual sexual encounters may be more common in Montreal than San Diego, for example. It's a cultural phenomenon, and frankly the only way I could see you being offended is if you look at women/men as property. #feminism. 

[Buffalofan4255]

From employers that I've spoken to, they would prefer a 2 year degree at the U of T over a 1 year masters from the UK, even if it were from Oxbridge. Employers that I asked were a couple NGOs in DC and 1 US federal government agency. $0.02. 

[jeetlebuice]

Not really, the video I referenced discusses the obvious social and cultural differences between Montreal and Toronto in terms of dating and openness. I don't know how it's degrading or disrespectful to recognize that. Regardless, you're obviously offended by the opinions of others, which probably going by statistics and research on casual sex encounters, is relatively true when compared to other cultures. That is, casual sexual encounters may be more common in Montreal than San Diego, for example. It's a cultural phenomenon, and frankly the only way I could see you being offended is if you look at women/men as property. #feminism. 

 

[IRbuff]

Alright, while there is a healthy amount of opinions on the subject of dating going around...I might just steer my way back into the whole Munk debate. 

  I got into LSE and Munk. LSE is a one year intensive degree. With a "minimum of 22 hours of class time a week" there is not much time left (at LSE) in terms of getting involved in research (from what I hear it is not that easy for a MA student to just get involved in research with profs), journals, students groups etc. LSE certainly does come with a name and better job prospects (due to its networks), but I also want to make something of my graduate degree experience itself. Moreover, for me, their conflict studies degree specializes in intra-state conflict,  while I prefer to reside within the confines of international security and foreign policy studies. Thus, even if I do get a good job after LSE, the question is placed upon the relevance of that job to my subject of importance. 

 I think personally, for me, the Munk school would be a better fit. It is a specialized program designed to provide a quality education that can get you into the public or private sector. All the resources are provided and at the end of the day, it is on us to take advantage of them and tailor our degrees to get to wherever we want to go. Moreover, with the Munk school having classes with law, Rotman, engineering students etc. I am getting a much more inter-disciplinary feel which I think is invaluable in terms of connecting academics and practice. I cannot speak much for others, but even if the Munk degree is not as prestigious as the one from LSE, the courses offered, subject areas, resources provided.... make me much more inclined to go to Munk. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by IRbuff

[Buffalofan4255]

The U of T as a whole is prestigious though. It's the top uni in Canada, and is ranked #16 this year by times higher education for reputation, LSE is below. 

[maozedong]

Does anyone know when the second or next round of offers will be sent?

Edited March 17, 2015 by maozedong

[IRbuff]

The U of T as a whole is prestigious though. It's the top uni in Canada, and is ranked #16 this year by times higher education for reputation, LSE is below. 

 

     Right, but at the end of the day, I think individuals would also put a great deal more emphasis on the departmenal/subject/faculty based ranking the the university a whole. For example, Carleton is not a very well known university, but when it comes to NPSIA, it is very much sought after. In the professional world, employers would probably put a greater weight on the particular school/dept/faculty itself than the university as a whole. Between Harvard and Georgetown (for MA international affairs), I would certainly pick Georgetown over Harvard despite the fact that Harvard as a university (as a whole) is ranked higher, whereas Georgetown's specific program is ranked much more strongly within that subject area. I will admit though that the rankings can be very faulty even when looking very particularly within a subject area. Ranking a school under the category of "international Politics" (QS) doesnt do much help, especially when there are so many micro degrees within the field.