Leveraging Funding

[romaracer]

I wanted to see if anyone has any experience leveraging funding from a school with funding offers from other school. Or by simply asking for more funding?

 

What was your plan? and where you successful?

 

 

[dinnerdate]

I'd love to hear more about this too!

 

Is it better to negotiate funding early on, so that programs will have time to find money if necessary? Or should I wait until I am more sure in my decision-making process (e.g., I'm down to 1-2 schools and will attend if funding is matched)? For context, I have three programs I'm interested in attending and money is a funding factor... However, I don't want to cause undue grief or burn bridges if I ask for more money and still decline an offer.

[TROD43]

Word. All good considerations. One of my schools doesn't release funding information until the first week of April. Is it wise to wait until then to start asking? Or is it better to wait until closer to 4/15 because that's when they'll know who's accepted/declined? 

[hikarizx]

I haven't personally done this myself since this is my first time applying as well. My opinion is if your program has already released funding decisions, then you should try working with the program coordinator as soon as possible in case any funding does open up. But if they specifically told you the decisions will be released in April, I wouldn't ask before that date.

 

dinnerdate...I think 3 is a low enough number to try asking. I don't think the school would hold a grudge.. but would it matter if they did if you're not going there?

[TakeruK]

In my opinion, you should not ask for more funding until you are certain you want to go there. At the graduate school level, leveraging funding is not a way to make all the schools increase their offers. Instead, the correct (in my opinion) process is to first pick the school you want to attend (School A). Then, decide how much money you need to attend that school and let the School A know that you really want to attend, however, you don't think you can afford to live on the stipend because of X, Y, Z reasons. If you have a offer from another similar school (similar in both ranking/prestige and cost of living) then you can "leverage" them by saying something like "Well, School B offered $BBB per year, can you match that?". If School A agrees to match it, you should accept School A right away. If they can only go part of the way or cannot match it at all, then you'll have to decide if A with the lower stipend or B with the higher stipend is better for you. But you should not use School A's slightly increased offer to leverage yet another school! 

 

(And depending on field, yes it could matter if the school is upset at you for wasting their time trying to find you funding just for you to use it to leverage a third school. Even if you don't go there--you'll see the same people around over and over again in your academic life).

[romaracer]

In my opinion, you should not ask for more funding until you are certain you want to go there. At the graduate school level, leveraging funding is not a way to make all the schools increase their offers. Instead, the correct (in my opinion) process is to first pick the school you want to attend (School A). Then, decide how much money you need to attend that school and let the School A know that you really want to attend, however, you don't think you can afford to live on the stipend because of X, Y, Z reasons. If you have a offer from another similar school (similar in both ranking/prestige and cost of living) then you can "leverage" them by saying something like "Well, School B offered $BBB per year, can you match that?". If School A agrees to match it, you should accept School A right away. If they can only go part of the way or cannot match it at all, then you'll have to decide if A with the lower stipend or B with the higher stipend is better for you. But you should not use School A's slightly increased offer to leverage yet another school! 

 

(And depending on field, yes it could matter if the school is upset at you for wasting their time trying to find you funding just for you to use it to leverage a third school. Even if you don't go there--you'll see the same people around over and over again in your academic life).

Yep def agree with this. I am almost curtain I want to go to the school with less funding.

 

Another quesiton. Should I write in my email details about why I need the money (related to parents health) or should I be general. I had some feedback saying that I dont want to sound like a sob story. My thought is that I should give as much detail as possible to differentiate from other potential students.

[juilletmercredi]

No, no details. Your parents' health is frankly not relevant to them. Keep the reasons general - you have concerns about the cost of living there, and you don't believe that the stipend is enough to live on. I don't think you need to worry about standing out because most doctoral applicants don't negotiate their stipends.

 

Also, be aware that many programs will not be able to negotiate their stipends because they are already set - either by grant levels or internal process. My first-year stipend was set by a grant and was non-negotiable. Some universities equalize their stipends across all students and thus you can't negotiate for more. My recommendation is that if you are going to try, don't do a hard sell - ease into it gently and allow yourself room to back off quickly if the program seems weirded out by it. Normally I'd say go gung-ho, but academic PhD program offers are not like job offers - negotiating the amount is not the norm.

 

Also, IMO your negotiations should be focused on earning a stipend that is enough for you to live on comfortably but frugally - not trying to squeeze every last penny out that you can. E.g., if Purdue offers you $30K but Indiana offers you $35K, I don't think you should try to negotiate $35K with Purdue just because Indiana offered you a higher stipend, because you can live in West Lafayette on $30K pretty comfortably. That's just my opinion though.

[fluxussuxus]

My school doesn't release funding related information until April either.

 

Should I be communicating with the program coordinator, POI, financial office or the grad school about financial aid? I just got a nice e-mail from POI congratulating me for my acceptance - should I mention that I would like to attend the school but I am waiting for funding in my response?

[fluxussuxus]

Or I guess another question is... how open should I be about my interest in the school? Should I state that the school is my top choice, but I wouldn't be able to go without the funding? Should I not reveal that it's my top choice (even though it is)?

[rising_star]

fluxussuxus, I think it's totally okay to tell a school that they're your first choice. As far as who to communicate with, I would not communicate with the financial aid office since at the graduate level all they offer is loans. I would instead communicate with the Grad Program Administrator/Admin Assistant and the DGS if the funding would be coming from the department. If it would be coming from a specific grant, then you may want to communicate with your POI.

[EnfantTerrible]

I have received an offer which I am very keen to accept, but the funding is not sufficient to live on. Both the DGS and my POI have encouraged me (in writing and in phone conversations) to negotiate for improved funding if I have another offer because they really want me to be able to attend.

 

I feel like they are assuming that because I'm a good candidate I've received more generous offers of funding from programmes elsewhere when in reality I applied to very few schools - I had very limited funds for applications - and I don't actually have another offer to leverage them with. Nonetheless, funding is still a serious obstacle to me being able to attend.

 

Do you reckon I should email the DGS with my concerns about costs of living and ask whether there is any possibility that they could guarantee me more teaching work/find some extra funding? Clearly there is some room for manoeuvre or they wouldn't have advised me to negotiate.

[neuronerdasaurus]

I have a similar question. I have narrowed my decision down to two options:

 

School A:

• Top 10
• At least 4 professors I could see myself working with
• 31k a year... BUT in a very expensive city (LA)
• Definitely a more stressful environment... I felt like most of the students I met seemed pretty stressed

School B:

• Top 20-30
• Only really 2 professors I am excited about
• Awarded additional fellowship on top of stipend: 40k a year in a very reasonable city
• students seemed very happy

Everything makes School B such an easy choice but I really really like the research at A so I am pretty torn

 

If I am sure that I would commit to School A if they offered me more money, would it be appropriate to tell them my other offer? 31k is definitely livable, it would just be tight in comparison to 40k. I don't want to phrase it in a way that would take away the option of attending A if they don't match the other offer.

[laowhy]

For those interested, I sent an e-mail to both of the programs I'm considering (to the people that signed my acceptance letters). I talked about my financial situation very briefly and expressed why I thought it be pertinent to reconsider my funding package. I did not write a incredibly long e-mail, but showed genuine interest and financial burden.

 

I received e-mails back from both within 48 hours, one school saying that they would be meeting to reconsider the funding package in the next week, and another offering an additional, substantial amount.

 

I would say the most important part of asking for funding reconsideration is to not come off as aggressive or cheeky, especially when referring to packages from other schools. I intimated how much my cost of attendance would be for both programs, but didn't ask a given school to *match* the other's offer or talk about how it would be "hard to pass up" another package.

 

Feel free to PM if any of you have questions.

[zenosparadox]

I have received an offer which I am very keen to accept, but the funding is not sufficient to live on. Both the DGS and my POI have encouraged me (in writing and in phone conversations) to negotiate for improved funding if I have another offer because they really want me to be able to attend.

 

I feel like they are assuming that because I'm a good candidate I've received more generous offers of funding from programmes elsewhere when in reality I applied to very few schools - I had very limited funds for applications - and I don't actually have another offer to leverage them with. Nonetheless, funding is still a serious obstacle to me being able to attend.

 

Do you reckon I should email the DGS with my concerns about costs of living and ask whether there is any possibility that they could guarantee me more teaching work/find some extra funding? Clearly there is some room for manoeuvre or they wouldn't have advised me to negotiate.

 

If you're talking about Toronto, they will need a funding letter from another school in order to get you more funding.  Essentially, they have to take this letter to the School of Graduate Studies and petition for more funds.  The department itself has no internal discretion regarding funding offers (apart from minor scholarship top-ups, however those are most generally awarded to SSHRC and OGS recipients). 

[EnfantTerrible]

If you're talking about Toronto, they will need a funding letter from another school in order to get you more funding.  Essentially, they have to take this letter to the School of Graduate Studies and petition for more funds.  The department itself has no internal discretion regarding funding offers (apart from minor scholarship top-ups, however those are most generally awarded to SSHRC and OGS recipients). 

 

Thank you - that's good to know. I've already sent them an email, so I'll brace myself for a let-down. I suppose this applies to incidental money (moving expenses, book grants) as well?

 

I can't help but think I should have applied to a US school I wasn't interested in but which would have offered me more money. For the application fee and a few hours of SOP adjustment, I could now be negotiating to go somewhere I really love.

[ankelley1127]

I recently received two good offers from schools. School A gave me an 18k research assistantship (which I'd have to secure an advisor for) while School B gave me a 5-year 28k fellowship. The only problem is that A is where I'd much rather attend, but it is so hard to turn down such a good fellowship, namely because of the prestige from receiving it and being able to put that on a resume. I emailed school A telling them about the situation and that I'd much rather attend there, but the fellowship is making it difficult.

 

Obviously they had already sent out all their fellowships with the first round, but a couple days later they replied with a $1500 signing bonus and a first year un-tethered RA (meaning I would have more flexibility in securing my advisor) while also moving me up on the waitlist for fellowships. So, in my experience, definitely let the schools know if you have different offers as it really can't hurt and it got me a lot that I would've never received if I hadn't asked. Just be courteous and not demanding, and don't get greedy if the offer isn't exactly what you want.

[juilletmercredi]

@neuronerdasaurus, personally I would choose School B anyway. There are 2 professors whose work excites you (which is lenty) and it's more money at a place where students seem happier. However, if you really want School A - if you knew you would absolutely go there if they offered you more - then yes, I would gently mention the other offer. I might say something like "School A is my first choice, and I'm really excited about being accepted and the prospect of going! However, I was a bit concerned about the cost of living with the stipend, especially because I got a higher offer in a lower CoL area. Is there any room for negotiation on the stipend level?" See what they say and how they react. This is better to do over the phone so you can read the non-verbal communication.

[2015ponderings]

Related to this topic, and I'm hoping to get some feedback on my specific situation.

 

I am currently deciding between two programs. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses but are relatively comparable as programs, including funding when accounting for cost of living in the areas. I thought I had made up my mind (let's call it 95% sure) and was set to tell School A this week that I am accepting their offer. But... in the last week or so I received an email from School B offering me a few extra thousand dollars for half of my program length. That brought my previously 95% sure self to about 75% sure. 

 

Previous advice in this thread indicated it would be inappropriate to leverage funding with a school that isn't your top priority, which I had no intention of doing with School B since I didn't consider it my top priority... this just kind of happened on their end, I guess. 

 

I know School A has potential to offer incoming students a little more on top of the standardized stipend, though I am unsure of specific necessary conditions. Both schools are aware of being one of two programs I am deciding between and know who the other school is (through ways other than me). 

 

Should I flat out tell School A my funding is now better at School B, as suggested in this thread? Should I try to be as subtle as possible, or just flat out ask? Money talk in a situation like this where it isn't really like a job offer that can be negotiated makes me a little uneasy.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions! 

[TakeruK]

2015ponderings:

 

Just to be sure, these are the facts right?

 

1. You want to attend School A.

2. School B recently increased their offer to you, making it better than School A.

3. You are asking if it's okay to use the new offer from School B to get a better offer from School A?

 

If these are true, then yes, I think you should just tell School A that you want to attend their program, but School B is giving you a really good offer right now, and is there any chance they can match it? You should be direct. If they say sorry, they cannot match it, then you can still just accept the original School A offer.

 

(To clarify, my advice earlier was to not ask a school to match an offer if you were not planning to attend that school. It's perfectly fine and actually ideal to use a offer from a school you don't intend to attend in order to get a better offer from a school you do intend to attend.)

[2015ponderings]

2015ponderings:

 

Just to be sure, these are the facts right?

 

1. You want to attend School A.

2. School B recently increased their offer to you, making it better than School A.

3. You are asking if it's okay to use the new offer from School B to get a better offer from School A?

 

If these are true, then yes, I think you should just tell School A that you want to attend their program, but School B is giving you a really good offer right now, and is there any chance they can match it? You should be direct. If they say sorry, they cannot match it, then you can still just accept the original School A offer.

 

(To clarify, my advice earlier was to not ask a school to match an offer if you were not planning to attend that school. It's perfectly fine and actually ideal to use a offer from a school you don't intend to attend in order to get a better offer from a school you do intend to attend.)

 

Yes, 1-3 are correct. Thanks for the input. 

[manofthehoff]

This old thread is really helpful so I thought it would be good to drag up. I'm in the process of deciding between a few tempting offers. One university practically begged us to tell them if we had offers from other programs, so I told them and they offered me substantially more funding. I admit, however, that I am more seriously considering a couple of the other offers just because of rank (though all my offers are from great programs and I am honestly still completely undecided at this point — I have a few visits scheduled to help me decide). I hope I haven't committed any missteps in this process.

[TakeruK]

3 hours ago, manofthehoff said:

This old thread is really helpful so I thought it would be good to drag up. I'm in the process of deciding between a few tempting offers. One university practically begged us to tell them if we had offers from other programs, so I told them and they offered me substantially more funding. I admit, however, that I am more seriously considering a couple of the other offers just because of rank (though all my offers are from great programs and I am honestly still completely undecided at this point — I have a few visits scheduled to help me decide). I hope I haven't committed any missteps in this process.

Well, if they asked you about other offers, then that's different. I don't think you did anything wrong (my above note is when you are seriously negotiating funding).

However, if at this point, you already know the results of all your applications, what I would recommend to do is:

1. Ignore the funding factor and rank your top choices.

2. Now, we think about funding. How much more funding would you need to get from your top choice for it to remain your top choice (if any). Also, how much more funding would you like to have from your top choice for it to remain your top choice? 

3. Ask your top choice for additional funding (at this point, you should be committed to attending this school if they meet your "need" amount).

4. If the top choice school is unable to meet the minimum amount of funding you need to attend, then decline their offer and repeat steps 2 and 3 with the next school until you get to a school where you have the funding you need (whether it's through an increase or the original offer was good enough).

Note: While you are doing Step 3 for the first time, if you look down your list and notice there's a school where the funding offered is already good enough (say it's your #3 ranked choice) then since you've already done Step 1, you can now decline all other schools ranked lower than this good-enough funding school (i.e. you know you would select #3 if #1 and #2 falls through, so no need to hold onto offers from #4 and below).

Also, while you are doing Step 1 (thinking hard about your choices), you probably should stop engaging with schools on tweaking funding offers until you have a decision and can start step 2/3. 

[spcgsw96]

This thread is really useful so just adding on -

I'm currently choosing between schools A and B which are about equally prestigious. (I had 8 offers I was considering and these are the 2 choices I whittled them down to and which I was most seriously considering)

I am basically decided on school A now. However I wasn't really aware about leveraging offers until now since I was emailing with another prospective who told me he did that. School A is paying me a 29k stipend while School B is paying 31k. It's honestly a fractional difference (although the location of School B is also very slightly cheaper to live in) and I do think 29k is very livable for the location School A is in -- is it worth it at all to try negotiate the extra 2k or would that look quite petty and greedy? 

Honestly it's not really a factor in my decision and I would choose School A regardless, but it would also be a bonus to be able to save an extra 2k each year. Is it at all worth it or would it reflect badly/be kind of a faux pas?

Edited April 5, 2018 by spcgsw96

[gnossienne n.3]

10 hours ago, spcgsw96 said:

This thread is really useful so just adding on -

I'm currently choosing between schools A and B which are about equally prestigious. (I had 8 offers I was considering and these are the 2 choices I whittled them down to and which I was most seriously considering)

I am basically decided on school A now. However I wasn't really aware about leveraging offers until now since I was emailing with another prospective who told me he did that. School A is paying me a 29k stipend while School B is paying 31k. It's honestly a fractional difference (although the location of School B is also very slightly cheaper to live in) and I do think 29k is very livable for the location School A is in -- is it worth it at all to try negotiate the extra 2k or would that look quite petty and greedy? 

Honestly it's not really a factor in my decision and I would choose School A regardless, but it would also be a bonus to be able to save an extra 2k each year. Is it at all worth it or would it reflect badly/be kind of a faux pas?

My advice would be to negotiate. It is expected and it will not reflect badly on you to ask whether they can match the other school's offer. You don't need to justify your request, if matching is all that you're after, especially since you're asking for a relatively small increase.

If it helps, however, think of the $2k as the difference between attending conferences or not, traveling for research or not, having an emergency fund or not, maybe even saving for retirement or not. If this is a doctoral program, it's not just $2k, it's at least $10k over five years. Adjust for cost of living between the two institutions, if School B is cheaper. Does that difference come to as much as $4k for the same quality of life? These are all things to consider.

Just because you can live on less doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for more if you have a better offer from a comparable program. You don't want to come short down the road due to unforeseen circumstances and find that the $2k would have made a difference, only you never asked.

[TakeruK]

1 hour ago, gnossienne n.3 said:

If it helps, however, think of the $2k as the difference between attending conferences or not, traveling for research or not, having an emergency fund or not, maybe even saving for retirement or not.

Ah, I should clarify that my advice is based from my perspective in a field where conferences, travel for research etc. are already all paid by the school and not out of pocket! 

However, this does remind me of advice I got too. Sometimes a school isn't as willing to give you a stipend increase because of internal policies etc. There could be a set stipend level for RA and TA for example. And they might not want to do the paperwork required to grant you a $2k fellowship.

So, instead, if they can't match the stipend offer, you can also ask for a $2000 research grant each year. You're basically asking your advisor or the department to set aside an additional $2000 for you to spend on research as you see fit. You might just get a one-time grant. But this is great for both fields where you are expected to pay for these costs as well as fields like mine where you wouldn't have to pay, since this means an extra conference for you!