Oxford Bound?

[dani8023]

Last week I received the astounding news that I was accepted into the Medieval History MSt at Oxford. Since this is my only admit, I'm trying to stop obsessing until I hear about funding. I've been trying to weigh the exorbitant cost versus the perceived prestige of the degree.

 

Help me distract myself! Is anyone else planning on Oxford, or has previously studied there? Is the degree and experience worth the high cost? I would love to hear from other people in the same boat as me!

[mvlchicago]

I have a friend who studied for the MSt in Classics and Oxford and she loved the experience. One thing to consider is that while you probably will have to foot the bill for the first year, she said that if you do really well within the program, they will most likely find/allocate funding for your second year, if that helps at all!

[knp]

When I was an undergraduate, two or three of my favorite TAs had done masters' at Oxford, and they all loved it. My undergrad university was prestigious, too, so them being TAs there can only be a good sign. At the same time, I do know three or four people for whom the experience made them decide not to pursue any further graduate education. (Although none of them were medieval!) It seems like there's a lot of strong feelings either way.

 

PS

Congratulations!

Edited March 24, 2015 by knp

[eqv]

I am dreaming of Oxford (if they take me...) for the MSt in medieval history and/or medieval studies, but I've spoken to medievalists and the impression I've received is that in the UK, Oxford and York are the move for masters programs in things medieval (not to remotely put down other programs- I am applying to others and they look equally fantastic).That being said, since you're being given the chance, I would definitely try and make it work out financially. Luckily, you have a chance for funding (April) and if you're from the US, federal student loans can be taken out for school in the UK.

 

(Also, to piggyback, would anyone accepted be willing to share their stats? I am still waiting to hear back which is absolutely nerve-wrecking. Freaked out because some people have heard (rejections and acceptances) from the program already. What does this mean....?) 

 

Also, congrats!!

Edited March 24, 2015 by eqv

[dr. t]

If you're spending the money for Oxbridge, I would start planning your year very carefully now to ensure that you have a strong PhD application on the other side.

[L13]

I am dreaming of Oxford (if they take me...) for the MSt in medieval history and/or medieval studies, but I've spoken to medievalists and the impression I've received is that in the UK, Oxford and York are the move for masters programs in things medieval (not to remotely put down other programs- I am applying to others and they look equally fantastic).That being said, since you're being given the chance, I would definitely try and make it work out financially. Luckily, you have a chance for funding (April) and if you're from the US, federal student loans can be taken out for school in the UK.

 

(Also, to piggyback, would anyone accepted be willing to share their stats? I am still waiting to hear back which is absolutely nerve-wrecking. Freaked out because some people have heard (rejections and acceptances) from the program already. What does this mean....?) 

 

Also, congrats!!

I'm also still waiting on Oxford! It's a great relief to see another candidate for the MSt in Medieval History who hasn't heard anything.

[dani8023]

eqv and L13 - crossing my fingers for you two! I'd love to connect with other students in the program prior to its start, if I end up going. Eqv - my undergrad GPA was 3.97, not sure what other stats would be helpful?

 

telkanru - I think that's what I'm most concerned about. Jumping too quickly into mountain of debt without a hope of making it pay off for my doctorate. I know that at the very least I would come out with better languages (I would have the opportunity to learn latin) and a solid writing sample. Do you have any specific advice for making the most of the program?

 

I keep trying to keep a level, rational, head about this decision and keep getting overruled by the little 'but OXFORD' voice in my head...

[dr. t]

telkanru - I think that's what I'm most concerned about. Jumping too quickly into mountain of debt without a hope of making it pay off for my doctorate. I know that at the very least I would come out with better languages (I would have the opportunity to learn latin) and a solid writing sample. Do you have any specific advice for making the most of the program?

 

You say learn Latin - do you not even have an introductory course already? Do you have either of the two usual scholarly languages (German, French) required for medieval history? Not having any Latin would be a major red flag, and not an easy deficit to overcome in a 1 year MA. If you do not have *any* of the three, I would take the time to acquire them and take the MA in a few years time. Language ability is to my mind the central skill required of any medievalist.

 

You can apply during your first year, but I wouldn't expect that application to be any more successful than your current ones. I would plan my major push for the year after (or even the year after that). Deliberately construct your thesis with an eye towards your writing sample, remembering that a writing sample will be shorter than your thesis. Make sure your thesis uses primary source texts. Make an article (ca. 8k words) out of your thesis and submit it to journals ASAP. If you do this by July after graduation, you should have reviewer feedback before applications are due, which will greatly strengthen your sample. 

 

Have a realistic outlook of how long you will need to learn what you need to know.

[dw3000]

 

Last week I received the astounding news that I was accepted into the Medieval History MSt at Oxford. Since this is my only admit, I'm trying to stop obsessing until I hear about funding. I've been trying to weigh the exorbitant cost versus the perceived prestige of the degree.

 

Help me distract myself! Is anyone else planning on Oxford, or has previously studied there? Is the degree and experience worth the high cost? I would love to hear from other people in the same boat as me!

 

Same situation. Got an acceptance for Masters in Oxford (albeit for sociology), killing myself over whether or not to foot the monstrous bill.

[Cpt Jo]

X

Are you American? so you will pay £20,000?

 

Another factor that you may consider is your college placement. Some of them have much cheaper rooms (St-John's for example) than others.

[mvlchicago]

if you think about it, though, 20k even in pounds is probably less than you'll be paying for most Masters programs.

While I agree with the bulk of Telk's comment, I'd also lightly emphasize the... unique elements of your situation. That you got into Oxford's medieval history program without (presumably?) minimal experience with Latin, seems to suggest they thought very highly of your potential. If you turn them down this cycle, I don't know if it's necessarily true that you'll get the same option later down the road–I know at least a number of American universities will second-guess an applicant who received admission and turned it down, since spots are so competitive even at the masters level and a rejection from an applicant is a loss on the university's part. That is to say, the Oxford name itself so long as you do well in the program will be a huge boost in your application from this year to next. Of course, you could also gain entry to another top tier masters program, but it'd probably a bit more expensive. 

I'd recommend waiting next cycle out, and throwing yourself completely in the program, then finding a job when that year is done, and apply for the fall of 2017. Of course, none of us know your life and it may make the most amount of sense to apply immediately, but if you wait it out, it'll give you a couple of years to pick up the languages. And if you apply with Latin + one other language, Oxford Masters, and maybe a couple of conference presentations, I'd be very surprised if you didn't receive at least one Ph.D offer. Those are my three cents.

[Cpt Jo]

if you think about it, though, 20k even in pounds is probably less than you'll be paying for most Masters programs.

While I agree with the bulk of Telk's comment, I'd also lightly emphasize the... unique elements of your situation. That you got into Oxford's medieval history program without (presumably?) minimal experience with Latin, seems to suggest they thought very highly of your potential. If you turn them down this cycle, I don't know if it's necessarily true that you'll get the same option later down the road–I know at least a number of American universities will second-guess an applicant who received admission and turned it down, since spots are so competitive even at the masters level and a rejection from an applicant is a loss on the university's part. That is to say, the Oxford name itself so long as you do well in the program will be a huge boost in your application from this year to next. Of course, you could also gain entry to another top tier masters program, but it'd probably a bit more expensive. 

I'd recommend waiting next cycle out, and throwing yourself completely in the program, then finding a job when that year is done, and apply for the fall of 2017. Of course, none of us know your life and it may make the most amount of sense to apply immediately, but if you wait it out, it'll give you a couple of years to pick up the languages. And if you apply with Latin + one other language, Oxford Masters, and maybe a couple of conference presentations, I'd be very surprised if you didn't receive at least one Ph.D offer. Those are my three cents.

More expensive than £20.000? :blink:

 

I paid €440 for my Master in France.

 

It may be an option for OP, French, Belgian and German universities are free, and housing is generally cheaper (outside Paris, Munich and the Côte d'Azur). So perhaps he can go there to learn a language and try again next year.

[dr. t]

More expensive than £20.000? :blink:

 

A 1 year MA at UChicago (for example) costs US$45,000 plus room and board. 'Murica.

Edited March 25, 2015 by telkanuru

[mvlchicago]

With room/board, Oxford iirc costs slightly less than $50k/year, and that's presuming a higher median for living costs. Comparatively, UChicago's MAPSS program costs about $50k/year in tuition alone, Yale's Graduate School estimates about $64k/year, Brown's tuition is $48k/year, and so on. Generally speaking, if you don't have a tuition waiver, Oxford is usually about $20k cheaper than "peer" institutions in the US. I know, our educational systems suck . 

[Cpt Jo]

With room/board, Oxford iirc costs slightly less than $50k/year, and that's presuming a higher median for living costs. Comparatively, UChicago's MAPSS program costs about $50k/year in tuition alone, Yale's Graduate School estimates about $64k/year, Brown's tuition is $48k/year, and so on. Generally speaking, if you don't have a tuition waiver, Oxford is usually about $20k cheaper than "peer" institutions in the US. I know, our educational systems suck . 

Yes, it's expensive, but it gives you better job prospects. I can't do anything with a master in History (literally).

[napoleon87]

I'm struggling with this decision, too, for History of Art (also within the History dept).  I've gotten into a fully funded US MA, which I know to have equal regard within the field.  Oxford's program is a slightly better research fit for me and an overall more enticing experience. I've been told, however, that the specificity of my studies is more important at the PhD level and I do worry that a 1 year program won't be enough time to prepare for the PhD.  Still, the idea of giving up Oxford is terribly painful! 

 

Have you guys "initially accepted" in order to hold your place?  Have you reached out to your potential advisor?

[dani8023]

Thank you so much for everyone's advice! This is all really helping my define what my priorities should be.

 

dw3000 and napolean87  - congratulations and commiserations on this difficult decision! I've confirmed my initial place already, and reached out to a few of the current students in the program. Haven't gotten the nerve to email my potential advisor. And I don't have my college placement, so my final expense amount is still up in the air.

 

Yes, I am American (and school is so, so, tragically expensive). I think I'd have better chances of funding at a US school, but it wouldn't be Oxford.

 

Telkanru - thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate your experience in this area. I know German and Italian (beginning - I studied abroad there) so far, and have worked through beginning Latin on my own (without a formal course). My undergrad university is small and their entire Classics program - including all Latin classes - was discontinued during my Freshman year, so I never had that opportunity. One of my LOR writers was my German/Linguistics professor, and I'm sure that helped somewhat. 

 

I'm trying to convince my linguistics professor to help me with an unofficial Latin directed study over the summer. I'm hoping that that, along with the pre-sessional Latin course that Oxford offers, will be enough.

[dr. t]

I know German and Italian (beginning - I studied abroad there) so far, and have worked through beginning Latin on my own (without a formal course). 

 

You should be in a pretty decent position to take advantage of the MA, then. I'd say yes.

[Jezzlin]

I was wondering if anyone had some insight into where the Oxford DPhil in History ranks in comparison to the US programs. I have already accepted at a US institute, but just out of curiosity, does a DPhil from Oxford have any clout in the American job market?

[EnfantTerrible]

I did a medieval history MA in the UK after an undergrad at Oxford where I gained French and German but no Latin. I wouldn't underestimate how much Latin you can pick up in a year, especially if you find learning a language from a book (as opposed to by immersion) pretty easy. Oxford is a wonderful place to spend a year!

[mvlchicago]

I was wondering if anyone had some insight into where the Oxford DPhil in History ranks in comparison to the US programs. I have already accepted at a US institute, but just out of curiosity, does a DPhil from Oxford have any clout in the American job market?

The degrees are very different, so I doubt the people who want an Oxford Ph.D are the people looking for American Ph.Ds. The information I've gleaned from varying adcoms at my old school basically said they felt the lack of classwork at Oxbridge hurt the Ph.Ds they produced, so I feel like you'd end up having to do a postdoc in America if you're looking to jump the ocean (unless you have a masters from another institution of similar caliber, or something.)

[Cpt Jo]

The degrees are very different, so I doubt the people who want an Oxford Ph.D are the people looking for American Ph.Ds. The information I've gleaned from varying adcoms at my old school basically said they felt the lack of classwork at Oxbridge hurt the Ph.Ds they produced, so I feel like you'd end up having to do a postdoc in America if you're looking to jump the ocean (unless you have a masters from another institution of similar caliber, or something.)

In Europe, it's common to have a masters in history before doing a PhD. It's just that the masters is not included in the PhD like in the USA.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Cpt Jo

[twentysix]

In Europe, it's common to have a masters in history before doing a PhD. It's just that the masters is not included in the PhD like in the USA.

 

I don't think having a masters prior to a PhD is that uncommon in the US either. I have several profs that have MAs and PhDs from different institutions, including profs who finished their PhD less than 5 years ago.

[jillcicle]

@dani8023 Hi, I stalked you here from the Oxford, UK thread and was excited to see you had a lot of similar concerns to me going into the MST at Oxford. Mine is medieval English, not history, but I am also looking to acquire Latin and prepare for PhD. Would you be willing to follow up? How's your Latin now? How are you feeling about PhD applications?

[dani8023]

Hey! Our situations do sound remarkably similar! I even do 12th/13th c. English Legal History. (The best time period, right?)

(And best of luck on your housing hunt, and I hope you can find someone with easy answers. My lucky situation with college housing unfortunately means I don't have much helpful experience.)

As far my experiences here - this has been the absolute best year, and I have learned more than I thought possible in this time period. As far as the Latin goes, they give you every opportunity to learn and every teacher I've had has been amazing. To put it in perspective, I just finished an essay with a large part of my evidence based on a Latin text I translated myself. Not WELL translated, I would say, but I know enough to fumble my way through some pretty complicated stuff. I have also had some incredibly useful/entertaining training in paleography, which has been helpful.

The academic community here is just unparalleled. It really is such a great experience, and the faculty here are so supportive. I feel like I am absolutely getting the professional training and experience needed to move forward in an academic career. The University provides as many learning/research opportunities as you are willing to take on.

For PhD prospects: I was in too much of a state with moving and getting acclimated to a new program to meet ANY deadlines beyond the Oxford one. I have been accepted for a DPhil here - without funding, sadly. A truly minuscule amount of history DPhils were funded this year. I am looking for alternate funding currently but we'll see. That being said, if I choose to re-apply for PhD programs next year, I feel highly confident in both my competitiveness for funding at other universities, and in the quality of referee letters I would receive from my professors here. I would love to stay here, but funding for international students is so scarce that I think my only realistic chance at funding would involve some sort of Hunger Games-esque.

SUMMARY: I do not regret coming for one single instant, and if at all possible I will stay for the next three years. But, barring that, I feel that this course has fully prepared me for continuing my education elsewhere and allowed me the opportunity to make useful professional connections with some very important people in my field.