Fall 2017 MFA

[oc.bmjc]

@aridari I didn't see what happened on Dr aft. But Oof, oof... 

On another note, seems like there are a lot of NYC school applicants here: Did any apply to Queens? Does anyone have any specific impressions?

[aridari]

@oc.bmjc oh yeah, it was a mess. People were arguing about ageism and that was already pretty charged, and then someone joined in calling other people trolls, and then she went after someone by insulting his English. It was pretty racially driven because he's very clearly poc and has a distinct way of typing, and it was so dismissive and entitled and comments like that are racist, bottom line. I was pretty damn insulted myself as a woc, having experienced similar types of comments in my lifetime. There's been a lot of censoring and blocking and such since then, but yeah. Only bothering to type this out here because comments like that are never ok, and only highlight problems at large and in the community. The poster of that language defended herself by saying she was biracial, but no. Nonono.

Wish I could give info about Queens college!

[oc.bmjc]

@aridari fahck, that really sucks. I hope it resolved productively? It doesn't sound it though. My thoughts and feelings go out to the guy who had those comments directed at him. I hope there was an overwhelming defense for him, and if there wasn't oof.... I feel for him, because as stupid and incorrect as those comments are, they can cut deep in any setting, and you're right It's never, ever OK. Ageism is also tough, I don't even want to imagine how that conversation read. jesus.

Those types of comments always make me squirm. They're so obviously attached to/steeped in this outdated imperative that one who is good and/or proper must also exhibit/ follow certain uses of language. Like some seriously historical white, aristocratic, colonialist, racist, classist crap that still somehow gets passed off as literary standard in some circles.
 

Edited March 16, 2017 by oc.bmjc

[aridari]

It was a convoluted mess but the moderators and most people came out in support for him, and he sure didn't take it lying down. He was piiiiiiissed, and very understandably so. And the ageism one was convoluted too...I agreed with both sides but man it was not handled well by anyone.

Yeah, it's definitely never ever ok to impose historically Eurocentric standards of "English" or "education" (read:class and race, cause that is always tied) on others, but the literary world is a particular repeat offender. I mean, cmon, the literary world is supposed to be innovative and is a huge cultural force. We need more different voices and perspectives in the lit world, and there's still lots of work to be done.

[aridari]

@Three21 it was actually the other end - someone complained that there's ageism against young students in adcom decisions. I mean, I think there's honestly ageism on both spectrums of the age range going on. And I've also heard more people claim that programs are full of students straight out of undergrad so idk. But also, applying to mfas will never be transparent, and if there's ageism going on, we sure won't know about it. Ageism exists for sure, but that particular discussion wasn't really thorough bc of the drama ha.

[Sleam]

From the little experience I have so far, as a 49 yr old, the colleges I spoke to, the fully funded full res ones were less interested in someone my age. The low res program directors of three other colleges have been extremely welcoming. Ashland in particular, said, that I'm exactly the kind of student they look for, older, non traditional, and how that shows a commitment not just following the college path of a twenty year old. I haven't been admitted anywhere though so who knows! 
I didn't finish the appl for Ashland, just can't get myself to Ohio! 

 

[MFA17OrBust]

I'm an older student -- so old that I have children who complain to me about the ageism they experience in their own work and studies. We happen also to be a family of "Other" in many ways. I have been admitted to 5 programs, 4 of them fully funded, and I'm on the waitlist for another. My understanding is that the current cohorts of the programs to which I've applied cover quite an age range-- from mid-twenties (my kids have forbidden the term "Millenials") to mid-to-late 60's. So, that makes me about average. One of the reasons I wanted to pursue an MFA, apart from learning to write better and focus on the work I've neglected over the past few years, is that I love working with young people. Their ideas, experiences, and points of view have informed my own, and their truth, however unvarnished, gives me hope. So, if I can help some young person (who has loads more talent than I possess) to avoid basic writing pitfalls on their way to greatness-- I'm happy to do it. And I would hope that someone with more experience would be willing to do the same for me. I think on the issue of age, there are some cliches that apply: you're only as old as you feel, and all that. But it's also true that you're only as young as you allow yourself to be.  

[Sleam]

Nicely put! And congratulations on your successes. ?

[oc.bmjc]

@Three21I applied to NY schools (mostly), I have a family situation that limits my ability to look elsewhere. Though, I would probably not do well in a small town/college town at this point in my life, so the trade of what I find valuable in non NY program is easily offset by the energy and environment of the city. 

I have heard many o' things, all consistently inconsistent. Every new comment is either polarizing or flips the coin over from what I last heard about each of the schools, with the exception of Queens (because I haven't a certain impression of its personality yet). As far as these schools being sensitive to certain groups, idk, the people I've spoken with haven't offered up much on these issue, maybe for a reason or not, idk?

My general impressions are this:
Columbia - academically rigorous, may lack the intimacy those who want or need a lot of attention, less thought put into overall cohort dynamics, but at lot of activities and extracirc programs available for students to indulge. Seems to fit well for a pretty independent student.

NYU - I didn't apply, It's a great program but I could never see myself there, which is a totally silly thing to say, something in my gut is just like "nah." So I don't have much information regarding NYU besides it's well known reputation in mfadum. 

Hunter - a lot of the work with mentors, you get to know your peers incredibly well, many opportunities to network and learn skills that would be really helpful for publishing and post grad life, they see you more like muses and prodigees than they do students in ways. That's what I've been told, have no clue how true that is.

New School - more artistically aligned, but definitely a mixed bag as far as faculty and selection. I've heard a lot of different things overall, but It is my impression those who do well and enjoy it are those who are bold and incredibly energized to be creative as much as possible. The lulls of the program appear in/at foundational coursework, but people have seemed to stand out when given the latitude. 

Brooklyn - the most well-rounded program creatively. They're completely invested in facilitating their student's growth and developing talent. Thoughtful, challenging, and prioritize recognizing, including writing cultures and trends that are stripped apart or painted over by other MFA programs. 

Rutgers - the most well-rounded program academically and in form, also most cost effective for the entire population. Haven't heard a single negative thing yet.

I think there's another program that's an extension of a college but is in brooklyn? :S

I feel like I've just described the different personalities of My Little Ponies but, that's my approximate and lazy impression of all the programs, except for Queens, which I am most interested in via the research. However, I haven't happened upon any specific personal information that would inform the feeling of the program.


 

Edited March 16, 2017 by oc.bmjc

[oc.bmjc]

@Three21 not it wasn't on my list as its not as proximal as I'd need, but one of my mentors attended. She only had nice things to say though nothing too specific. 

[outflare]

1 hour ago, oc.bmjc said:

@oc.bmjc Really interesting that you say that about NYU. I applied, but when my partner asked me to rank the five schools I was applying to in terms of preference, I forgot to mention NYU. When she pointed that out, I knew it was my last choice! When I was at their open house, I just couldn't see myself there (though I applied anyway). There's just something about the environment of the place that didn't feel "right."

I've heard the same about Hunter, and I would have loved to have been mentored by Peter, Liam, and Tea. Alas, it wasn't meant to be. The school itself wasn't very impressive, but the program was.

Talked to a nice fellow at Columbia today, I'm in. Frankly, it depends on what I hear from New School and Brooklyn, though from the beginning Columbia has been my (secret) first choice. I know it's a bigger program, but I'm pretty independent, and there is something about the academic expectations that I love. I thrive in those situations.

Should I just assume that New School and Brooklyn are out? Crazy that I haven't heard from them, so that could mean I'm on some list or, worse...forgotten! 

Thanks for your summation. It fit in with what I had heard in many, many ways. Especially the NYU thing.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by outflare
Tomfoolery on my part!

[oc.bmjc]

@outflare I'm also an incredibly independent student, that's the draw of Columbia for me - the ability to have as many resources available but no pretenses or expectations of needing to utilize them. While it seems odd I'd potentially pay/ incur (debt) so much to have the ability to disappear, I think it fits my personality and needs. I don't know how well I'd do in a setting more intimate and emotionally/socially intensive. Not that I am not invested in people or that aspect of programs, but I think if I am going to pay for anything then it would be ideal to feel intellectually and creatively stimulated. I'm only modeling what does that for me from my experience in undergrad though, so we'll see what shakes out - and if the perceptions are even correct. All of this could change. The course selection at Columbia is pretty rockin' too- Last year's course descriptions and instructors were so varied and unique, I found. Basically, they provide the type of academic rearing you wouldn't get from a standard English program. The workshops and seminars are really designed to enliven "the" creative writer, you can tell there's quite a bit of thought poured into that aspect of the program. 

I have not heard anything from anyone - pretty much radio silence, and it's starting to concern me that something was wonky with my apps and I didn't know it or some Fasfa thing is doing something weird or I'm mean....it's also equally/potentially possible that I terminally suck, but if I do, then I'd like to know soon. Anyway, I don't know what's going. I am thinking about getting in touch with admissions now. I feel like either it's not going to be a good look for me at all this year, or there's something odd going on, or it's wait-list city. I feel like at this point, most people have heard something from at least one school. But none of the schools is EEEKKK. I know people received rejections from Hunter & Rutgers (I think), yet I didn't hear from them either so I am pretty confused all around. At this point, I'd be happy to know just about anything, though the more I will for these decisions, the less likely it feels I'll get any before May.

But this is what I know from other's past experiences; Decisions could take up until mid to late April for any of the above schools. I'd try not to think about the politicking that's going on, or the bureaucratic heuristics that need to be met in order to push along the roll out. I imagine there is a ton of unnecessary stalling. But do Know that you'll be contacted at some point. The good news is you have an acceptance, and it seems you like the program a whole hell of a lot. 

@Three21, rutger is great, it's only newly fully funded? I think? 

They require GRE and do look at applicants to support themselves via teaching in addition to the coursework of the program. I was given the impression that in addition to having a solid sample, it'd be ideal if you expressed interest in teaching. I could be misconstruing that message, but it was the first school of the many I researched that were particularly clear about the teaching track and what was expected of a prospective student.
 

Edited March 17, 2017 by oc.bmjc

[badeyebrows]

hi all, i just wanted to emerge from my brief MFA hibernation to say 1) congrats to those of you that have posted acceptances since i was last here, 2) sorry to those of you that have faced rejections; you're in good company! and 3) i am very grateful for the productive conversation about paying for the MFA. i've spent the past few weeks researching low-res programs and there are a few that have sparked my interest even more than any full-res program i researched or applied to last fall. i've had a hard time with the idea of low-res, though, and i guess in part it's because i've internalized this idea that under no circumstances should you pay for an MFA (without pausing to consider the substantial cost of relocating to another state for a fully-funded program that only offers a paltry stipend; plus, in my case, that would mean uprooting my husband who already has a good job in the city we both love). this process has made me realize there are so many other factors that determine what truly makes a program affordable or "worth it," and it's nice to see the finances being discussed with nuance, rather than deifying debt in all circumstances. 

so, thanks for that! and if any of you have been through a low-res program and have wisdom to impart, or if any lurkers want to come out of the shadows to give the scoop on their good/bad/neutral low-res experiences, i would be forever grateful.

[oc.bmjc]

While reading through this again, w/r/t my commentary about the schools in NYC, w I amped up the programs that get a lot of heat, and also glorified the appeal of what I found attractive about them, so do know that my opinions are more or less built on hearsay via forum and what I think works for me. I spoke with people in program and out of before applications, and based my questions of the schools around my needs and wants. Which may or may not apply to you, so I'd encourage you to fact check this perception or even go from scratch. Definitely take the time now to reach out to current students, make a list of questions you think will help you shift through the BS and or bring to light red flags. If you haven't already, mb try to mentally prioritize what you seek out of an education given all the verifiable differences of the schools you've gotten into. If you have the ability, try and visit classes. This is not to say you haven't already done this but, edit edit edit. You don't have to make any decisions right now. You're in a great position, and congrats! It's inspiring and keeps me hopeful. 

The point about MA v. MFA I think is important to consider as a very possible reality, there is definitely a lot of courtship from the schools to you right now, so take those institutional dynamics and care into your considerations. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by oc.bmjc

[paperpencil]

Hi guys! Is it fair to say that if I haven't been notified by Iowa at this point, it's a rejection? I haven't received anything by post but I live abroad. Should I email the program directly? It's pretty much the last school I am waiting to back from before I can make a decision. Thanks! 

[manandcamel]

@paperpencil you should call or email. They've given decisions to others who have done so in the last week or two. 

[badeyebrows]

9 hours ago, badeyebrows said:

hi all, i just wanted to emerge from my brief MFA hibernation to say 1) congrats to those of you that have posted acceptances since i was last here, 2) sorry to those of you that have faced rejections; you're in good company! and 3) i am very grateful for the productive conversation about paying for the MFA. i've spent the past few weeks researching low-res programs and there are a few that have sparked my interest even more than any full-res program i researched or applied to last fall. i've had a hard time with the idea of low-res, though, and i guess in part it's because i've internalized this idea that under no circumstances should you pay for an MFA (without pausing to consider the substantial cost of relocating to another state for a fully-funded program that only offers a paltry stipend; plus, in my case, that would mean uprooting my husband who already has a good job in the city we both love). this process has made me realize there are so many other factors that determine what truly makes a program affordable or "worth it," and it's nice to see the finances being discussed with nuance, rather than deifying debt in all circumstances. 

so, thanks for that! and if any of you have been through a low-res program and have wisdom to impart, or if any lurkers want to come out of the shadows to give the scoop on their good/bad/neutral low-res experiences, i would be forever grateful.

so gradcafe won't let me edit my original post but for any of you reading along wondering "wtf does she mean 'deifying debt?' ", just know that i woke up this morning and had a moment of terror in bed when i realized what i had said, and that it made no sense whatsoever, and that i definitely meant DEMONIZING debt.

thank god it's friday.

[manandcamel]

33 minutes ago, badeyebrows said:

thank god it's friday.

Thank debt it's Friday?

[tallenarts]

Has anyone heard from Old Dominion?  or know anything about the program?

Edited March 17, 2017 by tallenarts

[Sleam]

@badeyebrows, welcome back! I'm on overload myself. Too much limboland for my sanity so I'm off Draft, not checking everything as much. I don't have a good feeling for Portland who is the last current application out there. I'm also not drawn to it as much as I should if it would get me into debt with only a few chances of getting TA or the such. So, I've mentally crossed it off my list. So, I'm looking at other options. I ended up talking to Ahsland, good faculty and very accessable Director. I also wanted to see about Oregon State at Cascades, great setting, low res, but expensive, and the Director was beyond useless at replying to emails. Three emails to her and nothing but form replies with links to the website, not once answering my specific questions. So I crossed her off the list. Now, I'm looking at Vermont College of Fine Arts. Two programs there, one low res and one full res. Little funding but I'm excited by their faculty, campus, classes and hands on approach. Good email conversations too. So, we'll see. I hadn't looked beyond fully funded last fall, within the NW and no GRE. This time, I'll look beyond that as I can relocate easily. So, like you, debit isn't ideal but if I get what I'm craving, in a place I like and leave with publishable work, community, experience and MFA, then yeah, I'm okay with that. Let me know what you're thinking, good luck whatever path you take. 

s

[Scheherazade]

On 3/15/2017 at 4:31 PM, romola said:

I'm not on Draft, so I can't contribute to that discussion, but I have a somewhat related question: Are any of you planning to pay for your MFA? If so, what has your decision process been like?

I applied to a mix of funded and unfunded programs, and so far I have been accepted only to programs that charge tuition (full-res and low-res). I don't make much money, but thanks to some savings I won't have to incur debt for the degree. I'm not super young, and I don't intend to go through the application cycle again. 

@romola, I'm late to this discussion, but one thing I would recommend is putting together a sort of simplified cost-benefit analysis. Essentially, you're weighing the pros and cons for each option:

1. List your various options. From the sounds of it, this would be something like: a.) paying to go to a low-res program, b.) paying to go to a full-res program, c.) applying again to fully funded programs [I know you said you don't plan on this, but it's useful to consider as an alternative for the sake of this exercise], and d.) pursuing writing through other outlets. The final option is the most open-ended and perhaps the most unpredictable; you might consider, for instance, taking workshops through extension programs or at a local college as a non-matriculated student. Or, you might trying to get a job in writing or publishing. But that might not be feasible. I did this exercise recently with the help of my partner, who, bless his heart, suggested "get a job with the New Yorker." Might as well list "get into Michener, Vanderbilt, and Cornell" as one of my options.

2. Look at the costs and benefits of each. There are some costs that are straightforward, like tuition and moving costs, but you will also have more complicated measures like opportunity cost if a scenario requires you to quit your job. Opportunity cost takes into consideration not only lost income but also the repercussions of time outside of the job market, lost interest on your income, and lost benefits.  For both costs and benefits, you might want to break programs down individually.

3. Consider your return on investment. Since the MFA is not a professional degree, any option that ends with you getting an MFA will have virtually no financial ROI, or even a negative one. But there are intangible returns to consider, like self-fulfillment, industry contacts, etc. (Note, however, that you might achieve through means other than an MFA.)

4. Weigh these considerations against each other and pick a course of action. 

Depending on your particular situation, this exercise may reveal that the maxim of never paying for an MFA is not applicable to you. In my case, for instance, quitting my job to be a TA in the deep South with a stipend of $10,000 would be a worse decision than keeping my job and paying $30,000 for a low-res program. Also, it's okay if you aren't able to determine a course of action after weighing every option. I'm still trying to figure it out myself. This exercise is, however, useful for analyzing your different options.

[sayantika]

Hello everyone,

I have applied only to two universities this year and I have already got an acceptance from University of San Francisco in both fiction and poetry. I had been accepted to George Mason's program last year but since TA ship wasn't available, I had to reapply this year, which I had done as early as October. I am yet to hear from them.Should I email the program director? I need to report to USF soon, so that's why I am confused.  

[manandcamel]

@sayantika email Alex Walsh (contact info available if you Google). He is the grad program coordinator for their MFA. He's responded to me fairly quickly. 

[sayantika]

@manandcamel: Thanks. Just shot him a mail.

[Sleam]

Still waiting for Portland, and I'm strangely disconnected. After a month of playing the check constantly game, my phone is left at home while I run errands or work outside. I'm looking into other colleges and programs, much to the reluctance of my references. I see others have been waitlisted and rejected for the CNF genre and I'm still not exactly expecting anything for myself. Ho hum as my brother would say. It's odd, that's all. I have no idea what I'm doing the rest of this year. It's odd.