Canadian Universities MSW. The waiting game 2016 admissions

[cupcake]

On 16 March, 2016 at 1:13 PM, serendipitous22 said:

Hi everyone. I'm currently in the MSW program at York University. I remember very well what it was like to repeatedly check my email and the various online application systems, and my mailbox... for those of you who are still waiting, hang in there! I wanted to share some information about my program that I wish I had known when I was applying, and when I was making my decision.

To be completely fair, here is a brief overview of the type of person that I think would be a good fit for the York MSW program:
- You are very interested in critical social work theories, including Marxism, critical race theory, feminism, queer theory, critical disability studies, etc. (*York does not yet have a strong Indigenous component to the program. UVic is excellent at this if that's what you're looking for. Arguably we should all be looking for this, but I digress.)
- You did a BSW that heavily focussed on clinical skills OR somehow have clinical skills already. In this instance, I actually think York would be a really good complement to your existing skills.
- You want to do macro or meso level social work practice, such as: community work, grassroots activism/organizing, research, group work, programming. York is a good choice for this as it focuses on critical social work practice, which translates well into macro/meso social work practice.
- You want to do a PhD and are very interested in theory and want to write a major research paper. U of T limits the number of students who can do a thesis, so York would be a good choice for you as every student needs to write a practice-based research paper (same as a major research paper; note that a PRP is shorter than a Master's thesis) and this is a requirement for many PhD programs.

Unfortunately for me, I don't fall into any of these categories and I have been disappointed with the program. I'm writing this in the hopes that you will have a bit more information than I did when making an admissions decision. There are a total of 20 students in my cohort/class, and we have had many extensive discussions as a group about our shared frustration and disappointment with the curriculum, faculty, and department. I would estimate that: 3-4 students have seriously considered dropping out or transferring (including me), 10-12 actively and vocally dislike/resent/are disappointed with the program, and 5-6 aren't happy or satisfied but are committed to just getting it over with. There isn't a single person in my cohort that has expressed basic satisfaction - let alone enthusiasm - for any aspect of the program, aside from the funding package (more on that later).

There were some 'rumours' that went around the forum during my application year that I can now comment on based on my own experience. York does not have established relationships with key clinical practicum agencies in the GTA. York has good relationships with a lot of agencies that would interest you if you're interested in community work, policy, research, or activism/organizing. U of T has exclusivity agreements with many clinical agencies, meaning that the agency agrees to only take on U of T students. These include many hospitals or clinical facilities such as Hincks-Dellcrest, CAMH, and the University Hospital Network. Aside from these exclusivity agreements, many clinical/counselling agencies will not accept placement applications from York students. There ARE some exceptions to this rule, but everyone at York who wants to go into clinical/counselling work then has to compete against each other (and students from other schools) to get those limited placement positions. Generally speaking it is true that U of T has a lockdown on key clinical placement sites.

If you have ANY interest in doing clinical work (counselling, working in a hospital, crisis work, trauma work, individual/family/couples/group therapy), and you are seriously considering attending another program, go there instead of York. This is the bottom line.

Secondly, even if you feel optimistic about securing one of the few clinical placements available, you should know that York does not teach any clinical or practical skills. I knew this when I was applying, but I didn't REALLY understand it. Examples of skills or clinical topics that you will not learn at York include:  developing a therapeutic alliance (this term is never used at York), building trust and rapport, phases or stages of a counselling relationship, communication skills (open-ended questions, active listening, reframing, summarizing), assessment skills, documentation skills, treatment planning, crisis intervention, counselling theories, counselling methods, ANYTHING related to mental health conditions (signs, symptoms, therapies).... you get it. There is one class on group facilitation and one class on narrative therapy (the only counselling course); both are electives.

This is because York's MSW programs draw on a wholly different knowledge base than U of T, or other clinical programs. Critical social work draws on critical social theories, like Marxism, feminism, critical race theory, queer theory, critical disability studies, etc. U of T's social work program primarily draws on psychology, the medical model, and psychotherapy as a knowledge base. This is why York's mission statement and admissions process emphasis anti-oppression and social justice, and U of T's mission statement and admissions process emphasize research, "clinical" practice, and evidence-based treatment.

To illustrate this difference, U of T offers classes on Social Work Practice in Mental Health, Social Work Practice with Individuals and Families, Advanced Social Work Practice in Mental Health, and electives related to trauma, counselling theories, cyber-counselling, child and adolescent trauma.... etc. York offers classes called Critical Perspectives in Mental Health and Critical Social Work Theories and Practice Skills. In the latter, you will learn about how and why various therapies (e.g. CBT, solution-focussed, strengths approach) are inherently problematic. You will not learn how to practice any of these therapies, OR even learn how they are done. You will also not learn how to practice any alternative treatments (in fact, you would never ever say 'treatment' at York). York focuses on critical and structural social work, so their critique of CBT, for example, would be that CBT individualizes a person's symptoms (let's say anxiety) instead of looking at the structural and contextual factors (e.g. the person who feels anxious is a racialized person living in poverty and on the brink of homelessness, so York might say that instead of medication and CBT, we should advocate for affordable housing and a guaranteed annual income). This is IMPORTANT and I have valued this, but I am not better prepared to work with someone with anxiety (meaning I still have no clue what to do). (This is why I imagine that a clinical BSW + a York MSW could be a good combination).

So, many of us are stuck and eager to wrap up the program. Some students are doing external training - which, by the way, is incredibly expensive (a one day workshop ranges from $300-$500 and a certificate course in CBT could be $2000). Don't bother thinking, "Oh I'll just take electives at U of T", because there is only a very, very, very miniscule chance that you will be allowed to do so.

One redeeming aspect of the York MSW program is its generous funding package. If finances are an issue for you, then it's worth seriously considering attending York as the funding packages are generous. In the 2-year program everyone gets a $15,000 package ($9,000 in Year 1 through a graduate assistantship (which requires 5 hours work/week) and other money, and $6000 in Year 2 through a research assistantship which doesn't require any work). If you get a York Graduate Scholarship then you get $6000 on top of this package. You will get all of this information in your acceptance letter. York also has very low tuition at roughly $1800 per semester. By comparison, the tuition at U of T is TREMENDOUSLY higher and they don't offer any funding packages. ** This is not inconsequential and despite everything else I've said, the money makes a huge difference **

/end rant

BEST OF LUCK to all of you. I know this is a stressful time -- hang in there! I hope you all end up at a school that is a good fit for you personally and professionally.

As a master of social work student at York University, I feel compelled to comment on the quoted post. I feel that there are a lot of assumptions in this post that are in contradiction with social work values and demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the profession.

First of all, I would like to state that, prior to commencing my MSW studies, I was highly suspicious of all two-year MSW programs and saw (and continue to see) them as an outgrowth of the neoliberal academy. I do not think two years of MSW education can adequately capture the rich learning that occurs during the years it takes to complete a BSW and gain practice experience. Through my work experience, I have encountered several graduates of two-year MSW programs and despite holding a higher-level social work degree, they seemed to lack social work knowledge and uncritically accepted medical knowledge (i.e. “clinical” knowledge) as superior to social justice perspectives, which is the heart of social work.

I was pleasantly challenged by some of the 2-Year MSW cohort at York and found many of these students do share a similar knowledge and value base, such as that which is cultivated at the BSW level. That being said, I find that they tend to be self-conscious about not having enough practice experience and often express that they do not learn “clinical” skills (this word is thrown around a lot to discursively align social work with medicine). The skills discussed in the quoted post are fairly basic and although reviewed at the BSW program, they are acquired through direct practice.I continue to encounter many of the UFT 2 year MSW students and they are hopelessly ignorant and come from erroneous backgrounds (ex. Real estate, Business, Neuroscience, and Psychology). UFT 2 Year MSW students and graduates tend to uphold neoliberal values in their practice and tend to align with medical and business (cost-saving) models rather than social work.

It's true that York does not have a lot of partnerships as UFT has unfairly made a market. That being said, as I am nearing the end of the MSW program, I find that when I am contacted by employers, they have told me that they were interested because I also hold a BSW and have some experience, and not necessarily because of my practicum or school.

I do not really have any suggestions to offer. I think that although York University’s Two-Year MSW program fosters a critical foundation for students, many would benefit by completing a BSW first to gain some foundational skills. I don't think UFT's Two-Year MSW program fosters the foundation that a BSW programs would provide and they would benefit from a BSW as well. You also have to wonder about equity issues as well; the Two Year MSW programs at both UFT and York are dominated by white people; this is not the case in the 1 year MSW program at York and Ryerson. I am glad  that York limits the number of 2 Year MSW students they accept; the situation at UFT is quite uncontrolled and this has implications on the social work profession itself as we are flooded by those who think more like real estate agents, entrepreneurs, neuroscientists, and psychologists rather than social workers. 

By the way, I am curious what program would constitute a “clinical BSW”? All accredited BSWs are regulated by the CASWE and from my conversation with other holders of BSWs, the programs are similar in structure. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by cupcake
clarify

[JHC]

On April 27, 2016 at 9:48 AM, LP3 said:

I've also asked about a Facebook group but no one has made one yet. 

 

In terms of a thesis, I am also interested in doing one, but I've heard that it's difficult to get approval through the FSW. Not many professors want to oversee a student taking on a thesis, so try to strengthen your ideas and really show your passion. Hopefully you can do one!

 

 

Hey guys, I was also accepted to Laurier off the waitlist, and I'm curious about a Facebook group as well...did you guys end up making one? 

Thanks!

[ivic]

Who is going to Windsor in September?  

[orangaglad]

On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 9:27 AM, sam94 said:

22 hours ago, ivic said:

Who is going to Windsor in September?  

I'M on The waitlIst . So im wondering if i even have a chance 

I vh

[ivic]

@sam94

There is always hope! The best thing to do is think positive about your application. I was waitlisted and received the email from Windsor about a week or so ago that I was accepted. I have heard from a few people that are in the program now that they didn't hear until later in the summer that they had been accepted. Stay positive and good luck!

[orangaglad]

6 hours ago, ivic said:

@sam94

There iswaitlistedays hope! The best thing  to do is think positive about your application. I was waitlisted and received the email from Windsor about a week or so ago that I was accepted. I have heard from a few people that are in the program now that they didn't hear until later in the summer that they had been accepted. Stay positive and good luck!

Can I just ask when you found out that you were waitlisted?

[Eveileb]

On May 31, 2016 at 4:55 PM, ivic said:

Who is going to Windsor in September?  

I'm going to Windsor! Is there a Facebook group?

[saffacanuck83]

Anybody else here accepted to the 32 month MSW for working professionals (Peel Region)? 

[saffacanuck83]

On 4/7/2016 at 4:58 PM, AnnInTO said:

Hi Everyone,

For anyone waiting on UWindsor (I know there aren't many of us here), I just received an email this afternoon stating that I've been accepted into their regular-track MSW for Working Professionals program in Peel Region.  I'm definitely very excited as it's the only school that I applied to.  Best of luck to everyone still waiting!  

I will also be attending this program :-)

[saffacanuck83]

On 4/12/2016 at 7:07 PM, colieg said:

So i haven't posted much here yet but this is my second time applying to the MSW program (rejected from everywhere my first time- went back and beefed up my resume) and so far this year...

I've been accepted to the MSW program for working professionals at Windsor (PEEL campus), anyone else going there this fall?

I was also wait-listed at U of T and plan to stay on the wait-list as long as possible.

Finally, i was rejected a couple weeks ago from Calgary.

Best of luck to everyone else still waiting to hear back or on a wait-list! I'll keep my fingers crossed for everyone

Are you planning on doing this MSW program? 

[ivic]

On 6/2/2016 at 5:16 PM, orangaglad said:

Can I just ask when you found out that you were waitlisted?

Hey! I found out via email that I was waitlisted, but it was also online when you log into MyUWindsor account under applications. Hope that helps! 

[ivic]

On 6/2/2016 at 10:45 PM, Eveileb said:

I'm going to Windsor! Is there a Facebook group?

Hey @Eveileb not that I know of! Private msg me  

[AnnInTO]

On June 5, 2016 at 7:18 PM, saffacanuck83 said:

I will also be attending this program :-)

That's great! Looking forward to meeting everyone at the orientation in August - we'll be spending the next (nearly) three long years together, lol.

[colieg]

On 6/5/2016 at 7:19 PM, saffacanuck83 said:

Are you planning on doing this MSW program? 

Hi, yes I am! I am planning on doing the MSW for working professionals program in PEEL through Windsor. Are you doing this program as well?

[saffacanuck83]

I am indeed attending the MSW for wp at the Peel location  @colieg ! :-)

Edited June 8, 2016 by saffacanuck83

[Dani4]

hI! 
I realize this forum is typically dead around this time, but figured it was worth posting.

For anyone who has done the 10 month BSW at Waterloo, I'm wondering if you know how quickly the prereqs can be completed. 
I'm looking to apply for September of 2017, and wondering if I'll have time to complete them in the time between hearing about acceptances and starting in September, or if this is something I should consider starting before being accepted. 

Thanks! 

[cpun]

For anyone still wondering about the Lakehead HBSW waitlist at Thunder Bay. They are going through the wait list to accept people now

[colieg]

21 hours ago, saffacanuck83 said:

I am indeed attending the MSW for wp at the Peel location  @colieg ! :-)

Yay that's so exciting! You will be joining myself and @AnnInTO in the fall. I am very excited to start this program, although I will be missing orientation. Excited to meet you both in September!

[sosocialworker]

Who else was accepted to Ryerson's MSW and will be going to the orientation in July?

[phd2msw]

On June 9, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Dani4 said:

hI! 
I realize this forum is typically dead around this time, but figured it was worth posting.

For anyone who has done the 10 month BSW at Waterloo, I'm wondering if you know how quickly the prereqs can be completed. 
I'm looking to apply for September of 2017, and wondering if I'll have time to complete them in the time between hearing about acceptances and starting in September, or if this is something I should consider starting before being accepted. 

Thanks! 

I'm doing this too. You can complete them before Sept. 2017 (it's what I'm planning on doing). You can PM me if you want. 

[SarahMc67]

Hi everyone,

Is there a Facebook group for the 2 year MSW program at UofT class of 2018? If not, anyone want to start one with me (you need one other person).  Let me know!

 

 

[SamSat]

On 6/9/2016 at 1:56 PM, Dani4 said:

hI! 
I realize this forum is typically dead around this time, but figured it was worth posting.

For anyone who has done the 10 month BSW at Waterloo, I'm wondering if you know how quickly the prereqs can be completed. 
I'm looking to apply for September of 2017, and wondering if I'll have time to complete them in the time between hearing about acceptances and starting in September, or if this is something I should consider starting before being accepted. 

Thanks! 

I am completing them before Sep 2017 too. I would definitely recommend emailing Laura Newman- her email is on the UW Renison website. She sent me a recommended schedule of completing courses. 

Also, you'll have to register by Jun 30, 2016 to start your pre-req courses in Fall 2016, which I would recommend if you want to pace yourself well for a Sep 2017 program start. Hope this helps! If you have any other Qs lmk.

[phd2msw]

On June 15, 2016 at 10:45 AM, SamSat said:

I am completing them before Sep 2017 too. I would definitely recommend emailing Laura Newman- her email is on the UW Renison website. She sent me a recommended schedule of completing courses. 

Also, you'll have to register by Jun 30, 2016 to start your pre-req courses in Fall 2016, which I would recommend if you want to pace yourself well for a Sep 2017 program start. Hope this helps! If you have any other Qs lmk.

hey SamSat I guess i'll see you around in sept  I've been accepted as non-degree status, so does that mean I can register now?

 

[SamSat]

12 hours ago, phd2msw said:

hey SamSat I guess i'll see you around in sept  I've been accepted as non-degree status, so does that mean I can register now?

 

Congrats! Me too! I plan in completing them online, so I am staying in Toronto and only going up to Wloo for the final exams. I think the course registration is around July 5-11, but I haven't received any further instruction on that... lmk if you do

[Socialworkertobe]

Hey guys so I am wondering if you can help me out. So I am currently going into my second year at laurier for my bsw. My dream is to be able to complete my msw. My first question is whether I should be completing a statistics course because it is not required for my bsw. Also what is a competitive GPA and how many hours of volunteer would you recommend?