Job Market Advice/Support Thread

[enpi]

I know the CHE has a job market support thread, but I thought it would be nice to start one here.

Anyone have any free advice for those on the academic market for the first (or second, or third....) time? 

It has certainly been quite the emotional roller coaster, and would help to read others' experiences! 

 

[Guest]

I'm wondering how many times I should go on the market before giving up. I'm in the middle of a second very disappointing season. I'm thinking this is just not going to happen for me and I should probably find a new line of work. 

[fuzzylogician]

43 minutes ago, my_muse said:

I'm wondering how many times I should go on the market before giving up. I'm in the middle of a second very disappointing season. I'm thinking this is just not going to happen for me and I should probably find a new line of work. 

You know, I think we all know some people who we might think would be better off quitting and doing something else. But I also think that our own evaluation of our self-worth is completely clouded by the emotions we feel on the horrible roller-coaster that is the job market. I don't think any of us can think about it objectively, I think the job market messes with our heads in a way that's hard to deal with without some external support and help. When I occasionally have these feelings, usually following some setback or bad result in my career, I am lucky enough to have trusted mentors in my life who I know I could turn to and ask straight up: am I good enough? (Also: mentors who will reach out to me and say: that sucked, I'm sorry, but hang in there, you can make it.) No one can guarantee that things will work out just because you are good enough and deserve to make it, but I hope you have people who will give it to you straight and tell you if they think you have a fair shot, or if you'd be better off either aiming at a different tier of schools than you have been, or quitting and doing something else altogether. Beside mentors, maybe there are other peers who are going through the job market ordeal at the same time as you. It helped me to learn that my friends, who I think are amazing people and I am sure will be successful, were feeling just as miserable and insecure as I was. It's not an easy conversation to have, but this feeling is unfortunately extremely common. The support of friends who can really understand what you're going through is extremely valuable.

The question of how long you want to try is a very personal one, but also one to think through with trusted mentors. I don't think giving you a number would help, exactly. It also depends on how well you've been doing in previous years - even if you didn't get a job, did you get interviews? my impression is that people who get multiple interviews are generally attractive enough to make it, and then it's just a matter of time until things click and the stars align just right so they are the chosen ones. It can still take a while and be demoralizing, but it's a different situation than if you've never even gotten a long-list interview, in which case you should really get help with your application materials and also again seek out the advice of someone who's been on hiring committees and can tell you how competitive you are. 

[rising_star]

2 hours ago, my_muse said:

I'm wondering how many times I should go on the market before giving up. I'm in the middle of a second very disappointing season. I'm thinking this is just not going to happen for me and I should probably find a new line of work. 

Honestly, this is a really personal question and not one that anyone here could answer without knowledge of your CV, your goals, and your field. That said, I decided before I went on the market for the first time what my cap for years on the market would be. I think I said I'd do it twice (or maybe it was three times) before shifting my attention to another direction. And that meant finding full-time, renewable employment (so NTT lecturer could work or VAP or TT). I'm lucky in that it happened and before my self-imposed timeframe. For me, it was more about the fact that there are other things I could see myself doing combined with a desire to really choose the place in which I live in a way that being in academia doesn't allow. You may want to check out VersatilePhD.com, where there are lots of people either outside of academia or considering leaving academia.

[Guest]

Thank you to those who replied with valuable advice, as always.

A little background: I've been on the market for two years, and each year I've only gotten two interviews. I never advance beyond the interview stage to actually get a campus visit. I'm in a notoriously saturated area with few jobs, but each time I've gone on the market I've been told that I would have tons of interviews. This year (applying with a defended dissertation), I was told I'd be a "top pick" and would have choices at the end of the search.

This advice is obviously outdated and not the case for me. I just don't want to waste anymore time on a career that is obviously not there anymore. Some people do get jobs, but in my field/discipline these days, I see people get hired only if they have a Mellon postdoc, a book contract, and/or several years of working as an assistant professor. I do not have any of these things, and I cannot even begin to acquire them as I can't break into the profession at all. 

I believe I don't have a problem interviewing (as I figure that would probably be the most obvious suggestion here). I'm definitely not perfect, but fairly practiced. In fact, I've even had SC members contact me personally after I've been rejected to tell me how much they enjoyed my interview, but bummer, couldn't hire me because reasons.  

Both times I've gone on the market, I've applied to every job I can find. I apply to elite postdocs, non-elite teaching postdocs, all kinds of jobs in all different locations both TT and NTT. I haven't put too many geographical limits on my search.

I am, of course, published and professionalized and flush with teaching experience of "diverse students" and in "multimodal literacies"--all the things we're told we need to do before going on the market. Etc. 

If I had it to over again, I definitely would not have gone to grad school. (I wouldn't drop by the application fora and say that because I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I remember how exciting it was to be admitted to grad school. But yeah, there it is.) 

I guess at this point I'm trying to decide between doing this another year or trying to throw myself into a different line of work altogether before my contract teaching gig runs out. Which I know is a decision I have to make myself. But I don't believe I have "it"--whatever "it" is--that allows one to succeed on the job market. And I realize this would probably be more appropriate for the CHE forums, but those people over there are ugh. 

[enpi]

Thanks @my_muse for sharing your story... 

This is the first time on the market and it's been awful. All of my friends who have already gone on to bigger and better things tell me, "oh, enpi you'll be fine!" or "if you had only half the luck that I did, you'll have no problem" (and this was coming from a guy who got an amazing job with a barely half-finished dissertation). I wasn't expecting to land a job right out of the gate but I was hoping for an interview. But so far, nothing. nada. zip. deafening silence! It seems that the market is more strict this year than past years...or is it just me? 

Anyway, this whole experience has made me question my own abilities at every turn. 

But on the subject of rejection...I wish we could all just talk about it more openly sometimes, you know? I mean, of course no one will think you suck because you didn't get anything, but there's always this nagging feeling like I've let someone else down. I was talking to another prof about this once, and she said that when she was in grad school, she had a mentor who framed all his rejection letters and put them in his office. I thought that was pretty awesome..I wish it could be just more transparent to see how people work through all the "no.." you know?

 

 

[GradSchoolTruther]

I know it's difficult when you strike out. The big questions are how is you cover letter, CV, and LORs? Do you know anyone outside your committee and university who has served on search committees that could take a look at your cover letter and CV? Are you overconfident in your own interviewing skills? I ask that because I know people who've said they've nailed interviews, but heard through the grapevine that there interview didn't go as well. Kind of like going on a date and we think we hit it off with the other person, and they won't go out with us again.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, GradSchoolTruther said:

I know it's difficult when you strike out. The big questions are how is you cover letter, CV, and LORs? Do you know anyone outside your committee and university who has served on search committees that could take a look at your cover letter and CV? Are you overconfident in your own interviewing skills? I ask that because I know people who've said they've nailed interviews, but heard through the grapevine that there interview didn't go as well. Kind of like going on a date and we think we hit it off with the other person, and they won't go out with us again.

I'm as confident in my interviewing skills as you are in your concern trolling skills. 

I guess reddit is slow today. 

[enpi]

I think we are all pretty well rehearsed in terms of interviewing, and our cover letters have gone through the ringer with our own advisors as well as others on our committee. There is nothing one can do about the CV at this point, and frankly, I don't buy into this BS of your CV having to look like that of an associate professor with publications and what not to get an interview for an entry level job (as some people tend to think). I've had friends get great jobs in the humanities with little more than a presentation at a national conference. I've had other friends who have already published, who have gotten nothing out of the gate.

After all, we all pour our souls into these job documents, and others have invested significant time in helping us. If none of us cared, and if none of us have already asked ourselves 1,000,000 times about the quality of our submissions, there would be no need for this thread! 

It helps, for me anyway, to talk about rejections with others since it feels so isolating. Knowing that there are other people who have had similar experiences really does do wonders.

[fuzzylogician]

I've posted this link in various other threads here, but I'll do it again because I think it speaks exactly to this culture of keeping our failures secret and the kind of anxiety it can generate in others: http://sasconfidential.com/2015/11/20/shadow-cv/ .

I completely agree that it's important to talk about rejections and about what that does to a person. I don't think it's fixed by looking at our CV and questioning our interviewing skills (I wish it were that simple). Yes, there needs to be some of that, but there is so much more that goes into the process that you can't control. You can be an excellent interviewee and have more publications than some of the old folks on the search committee have now, but still not get the job, because of numerous other factors that go into these decisions. I, at least, find if very helpful to know that it happened to other people who I think of as successful and well-adjusted -- that they too were unsure and had serious doubts about whether they were good enough and would make it, and when they should stop. It makes my feelings more valid and normal, and even though it doesn't stop me from having them, it still helps to know others have had them, and gotten through. 

[Guest]

On 1/27/2016 at 9:30 AM, enpi said:

I wasn't expecting to land a job right out of the gate but I was hoping for an interview. But so far, nothing. nada. zip. deafening silence! It seems that the market is more strict this year than past years...or is it just me? 

 

 

 

 

I do think that this year was really, really bad for English. Last year was too, though, and that was my first year and I was met mostly with deafening silence. I was told that I didn't get much interest because I was only ABD, and that applying with a finished PhD would help a lot. It didn't. 

I think it's just the market, not *us* in any sense, and part of me finds that prospect even more terrifying. Like, there's nothing you can really *do* for your application if there are no jobs. I think we are seeing just a full-blown collapse of the market, and I don't know if it will come back. We can't really blame the recession anymore, as it's 7+ years after all that. But the number of jobs dropped 50% or so in the last two years. For that reason, I'm really not optimistic about my chances. 

[rising_star]

13 hours ago, my_muse said:

I think it's just the market, not *us* in any sense, and part of me finds that prospect even more terrifying. Like, there's nothing you can really *do* for your application if there are no jobs. I think we are seeing just a full-blown collapse of the market, and I don't know if it will come back. We can't really blame the recession anymore, as it's 7+ years after all that. But the number of jobs dropped 50% or so in the last two years. For that reason, I'm really not optimistic about my chances. 

I think this expands beyond English, FWIW. Several people in one of my fields have been discussing the decline in tenure-track and other full-time positions advertised in the past couple of years. I haven't actually counted but I'd say that it's also down ~30-40% overall. Even worse (for some of us), a lot of the advertised jobs are in one specific subfield so, if you don't have those skills, then the decline is probably ~50-60%. Many of my friends and I consider ourselves just plain lucky at this point.

I could throw out the usual advice that you should apply for everything, but you're probably already doing that. You could try to work your network to see if you know anyone at any place that's hiring and can put in a good word about you/your application with the search committee. As a job applicant in academia, I used to think that was unethical until I realized that people do it all the freaking time. It doesn't always work but I doubt it ever hurts. Depending on your family situation, you might also want to consider the 1 year VAP positions which pop up everywhere. Some have abysmally low pay and working conditions but others are actually reasonable and a good stepping stone to a TT job, though maybe not at that institution.

[Eigen]

I went very selectively on the market in the fall, and struck out completely. It was really hard- especially because all my letter writers keep expressing complete consternation that I didn't get multiple interviews and offers. I knew that this was likely going into the season, but I got a lot of feedback on my materials that my chances were excellent, and that "any school would be lucky to have me". 

I know that the market is a hard- I know you can have a great CV and good materials and not get an offer anywhere if you aren't the exact fit the department decides it wants- but that doesn't make it any easier. 

At the moment, I'm applying for post-doctoral fellowships and visiting positions. My faculty mentors tell me that not getting an Ivy-League post-doc will kill any hope of landing a position I'll be happy in. But they also think anything less than an R1 wouldn't be a happy place. Mentors I've cultivated at other schools (SLACs, state universities) tell me a visiting position could be a great way to break into the market. But my letter writers are significantly less convinced, which makes getting each new letter for a visiting position quite difficult. 

I didn't apply too broadly because I'm ABD. I'm in a field where it's very uncommon to apply straight from a PhD program, so I knew it was going to be an especially hard run on the market. That said, I'm glad I didn't apply more broadly- I had schools I was pretty sure I could have gotten a job at, but with 5/5 or 5/6 teaching loads and no support for research at all. And while I might enjoy that, it's a limiting decision. You can't publish your way out of a school with no research support, so once you're there... You're there.

This year was also very hard for me because it's the first time I've had to deal with rejection. I got into all the grad schools I applied to from undergrad, I was awarded all the fellowships I applied for in grad school- I've even gotten all my papers published and grants I've co-authored funded. I know that's rare, and I've been exceptionally lucky. But that doesn't make it any easier to deal with an overwhelming sense of imposter syndrome when everyone is telling me I should be easily landing a job and I'm not. 

So in summary, I completely feel you!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Eigen said:

I went very selectively on the market in the fall, and struck out completely. It was really hard- especially because all my letter writers keep expressing complete consternation that I didn't get multiple interviews and offers. I knew that this was likely going into the season, but I got a lot of feedback on my materials that my chances were excellent, and that "any school would be lucky to have me". 

I know that the market is a hard- I know you can have a great CV and good materials and not get an offer anywhere if you aren't the exact fit the department decides it wants- but that doesn't make it any easier. 

At the moment, I'm applying for post-doctoral fellowships and visiting positions. My faculty mentors tell me that not getting an Ivy-League post-doc will kill any hope of landing a position I'll be happy in. But they also think anything less than an R1 wouldn't be a happy place. Mentors I've cultivated at other schools (SLACs, state universities) tell me a visiting position could be a great way to break into the market. But my letter writers are significantly less convinced, which makes getting each new letter for a visiting position quite difficult. 

I didn't apply too broadly because I'm ABD. I'm in a field where it's very uncommon to apply straight from a PhD program, so I knew it was going to be an especially hard run on the market. That said, I'm glad I didn't apply more broadly- I had schools I was pretty sure I could have gotten a job at, but with 5/5 or 5/6 teaching loads and no support for research at all. And while I might enjoy that, it's a limiting decision. You can't publish your way out of a school with no research support, so once you're there... You're there.

This year was also very hard for me because it's the first time I've had to deal with rejection. I got into all the grad schools I applied to from undergrad, I was awarded all the fellowships I applied for in grad school- I've even gotten all my papers published and grants I've co-authored funded. I know that's rare, and I've been exceptionally lucky. But that doesn't make it any easier to deal with an overwhelming sense of imposter syndrome when everyone is telling me I should be easily landing a job and I'm not. 

So in summary, I completely feel you!

I hope this doesn't come across as too insensitive, but it actually comforts me to know that science people are feeling the same way, and that it's not just us humanities/social sciences ding-dongs with our hyper-obscure specializations in underwater basket weaving who are striking out. Because we're often made to feel bad anyway for not picking something more "practical." 

I hope things turn around for you Eigen. 

[Eigen]

Oh, I'm sure they'll be fine. 

I've got several post-doctoral offers on the table, thankfully, and one lecturer position. It just sucks that half of my mentors seem to tell me every move I make will "doom my career" and the other half think my other option will. 

But yeah, definitely not just a humanities thing. Happens a lot in STEM too.

[enpi]

On 2/2/2016 at 7:11 PM, Eigen said:

 It just sucks that half of my mentors seem to tell me every move I make will "doom my career" and the other half think my other option will. 

Some advice that I got from a friend once was not to "overseek" advice...Half the time, my advisor contradicts his own advice too. So, as you probably already know, put filters on your ears and do what you think is best for you. 

Congrats on your post-doc offers!

[Eigen]

2 hours ago, enpi said:

Some advice that I got from a friend once was not to "overseek" advice...Half the time, my advisor contradicts his own advice too. So, as you probably already know, put filters on your ears and do what you think is best for you. 

Congrats on your post-doc offers!

That's great advice. Learning how to filter has helped a lot. 

My department is full of helpful, well-meaning, totally unsolicited advice. Every faculty member wants to know my plans, and then they all want to tell me why those plans are good or bad or dooming my career. 

[fuzzylogician]

2 hours ago, Eigen said:

That's great advice. Learning how to filter has helped a lot. 

My department is full of helpful, well-meaning, totally unsolicited advice. Every faculty member wants to know my plans, and then they all want to tell me why those plans are good or bad or dooming my career. 

A bit different, but toward the end of my dissertation writing stage I was getting all kinds of conflicting advice from my advisors. When I told one of them I didn't know what to do, he said this is very good news: if everyone is telling you that X is missing or wrong, then you know that X is missing or wrong. By the time that one person says X, another says Y, and a third says definitely not X nor Y, you're down to personal opinions and there isn't just one correct way to go. Do whatever you want. 

[spunky]

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...

non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

i got a little bit turned off from the academic job market after witnessing first-hand how brutal the hiring process is (we were hiring for a tenure-track position in my program) and how many qualified applicants' CVs just get thrown on the NO pile because of the smallest, most asinine of things. but then i started looking around non-academic options (like research institutes even within the university) and the job prospects seemed pretty solid with good pay.  even i ended applying (and getting) one.

Edited February 4, 2016 by spunky

[Eigen]

1 hour ago, fuzzylogician said:

A bit different, but toward the end of my dissertation writing stage I was getting all kinds of conflicting advice from my advisors. When I told one of them I didn't know what to do, he said this is very good news: if everyone is telling you that X is missing or wrong, then you know that X is missing or wrong. By the time that one person says X, another says Y, and a third says definitely not X nor Y, you're down to personal opinions and there isn't just one correct way to go. Do whatever you want. 

That is indeed excellent advice. Thanks!

42 minutes ago, spunky said:

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...

non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

i got a little bit turned off from the academic job market after witnessing first-hand how brutal the hiring process is (we were hiring for a tenure-track position in my program) and how many qualified applicants' CVs just get thrown on the NO pile because of the smallest, most asinine of things. but then i started looking around non-academic options (like research institutes even within the university) and the job prospects seemed pretty solid with good pay.  even i ended applying (and getting) one.

Quite a bit. I've told myself (as Rising_Star said upthread) that I'll go on the job market in academics for a set number of years (for me, 3 more application cycles). After that, I'll go the non-academic route. 

I'm quite lucky that my field (and my particular interests) are very employable outside of academia, and the transition is pretty easy. I really enjoy teaching, and that's my primary career goal, but I'll end up being happy if I get a non-academic research/industry position as well. 

At some point, to me, my career goals fall far behind having a lifestyle I enjoy, that gives me time for my family and community engagement work and hobbies in addition to the grind of the job.

[rising_star]

On 2/2/2016 at 7:11 PM, Eigen said:

I've got several post-doctoral offers on the table, thankfully, and one lecturer position. It just sucks that half of my mentors seem to tell me every move I make will "doom my career" and the other half think my other option will. 

Yea, that will never stop. I still have faculty from my PhD department wondering if/when I'll move to a major research institution. They really don't understand that I have zero desire to work at an institution like the one I went to, in no small part because I like having a life. There are things besides work which are important to me, like being able to read a novel for fun at night, being able to leave work after 8-9 hours, having free time on the weekends to travel, etc. It probably doesn't help that I can't imagine myself ever being wedded to one consistent project for several years or doing the NSF funding grind to pay for said research. Don't ask how I managed to pull off a dissertation because my research interests are all over the map.

2 hours ago, spunky said:

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...

non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

Yep, all the time. See what I said above about non-work commitments. I also have a strong desire to choose where I live, which probably means leaving academia at some point unless I get really lucky. I've given myself a timeline for making that happen and, starting this summer, will be laying some of the blocks down on this path so that I can pursue it if I want to.

One of my friends talks about how you have to be authentic to yourself, which is hard to explain. But, you want to be true to yourself and not do things just because it's what society/your parents/your advisors/your friends expect. So, for me, the "end all be all" of getting a PhD was never a tenure-track position because I grew up knowing people with PhDs who didn't work in academia (my mom being one example). There are definitely positions outside academia I could see myself holding, just like there are positions within academia I could see myself holding. I also recognize that what I'm doing right now may not always be the thing I want to be doing so I'm trying not to close any major doors. And, even within my job, I've changed my approach to it so that it works for me and I can do it without compromising myself, my values, my soul, etc.

I wish I could explain the authenticity thing more clearly but, I can't figure out how to put it into words. I just know what I need to do for myself and I make that happen as best I can and within the limitations I have. As my friend points out, laziness can be a constraint on doing what we want but, that's something you have to recognize and accept as part of being authentic to yourself. 

[enpi]

3 hours ago, spunky said:

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...

non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

I also think about it all the time--before entering my program I was flexible about where I lived, but circumstances have changed and now, it has become a priority for me to choose where I live. For the sciences or anything quant based, I imagine transitioning to non-academic employment isn't as hard as for the humanities...I know about versatile phd, but I haven't really found it too helpful. I have a few ideas left, so I'm not totally panicking yet, and I still have some postdoc positions that I'm still waiting to hear back from...so we will see. I'm really trying to adopt the "whatever happens it will all work out in the end" approach, but that still doesn't stop me from questioning my own worth and abilities throughout this wretched process.

Sometimes I totally feel like I missed the boat in terms of getting a job. When I graduated from college back in the early 2000s, it seems like all my friends found jobs without much trouble. Haha, silly me, having to go graduate school and to take the long route! 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, spunky said:

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...

non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

i got a little bit turned off from the academic job market after witnessing first-hand how brutal the hiring process is (we were hiring for a tenure-track position in my program) and how many qualified applicants' CVs just get thrown on the NO pile because of the smallest, most asinine of things. but then i started looking around non-academic options (like research institutes even within the university) and the job prospects seemed pretty solid with good pay.  even i ended applying (and getting) one.

I'll probably be going this route if not at the end of this season then the next. My advisor is telling me to give it just one more try.

I used to have a "real job" before I went to grad school, so I'm not exactly new to that scene. I didn't particular enjoy some of what I saw in the workplace, and to be honest, I prefer academia's way of doing things, even if the hiring is so patently unfair. 

But I'm definitely not going to keep chasing this dream if it just won't have me. After a certain point, enough is enough already. 

[enpi]

Anyone else have any success stories (or otherwise) they want to share? 

[juilletmercredi]

A little background: I've been on the market for two years, and each year I've only gotten two interviews. I never advance beyond the interview stage to actually get a campus visit. I'm in a notoriously saturated area with few jobs, but each time I've gone on the market I've been told that I would have tons of interviews. This year (applying with a defended dissertation), I was told I'd be a "top pick" and would have choices at the end of the search.

This advice is obviously outdated and not the case for me. I just don't want to waste anymore time on a career that is obviously not there anymore. Some people do get jobs, but in my field/discipline these days, I see people get hired only if they have a Mellon postdoc, a book contract, and/or several years of working as an assistant professor. I do not have any of these things, and I cannot even begin to acquire them as I can't break into the profession at all. 

If it's any consolation, I think two years is actually pretty short in a crowded market. This is particularly true if you were ABD last year - applying ABD in most fields these days is a losing proposition. In the humanities it's become more common for people to do elite postdocs and visiting positions for a couple years, and in the sciences and social sciences a lot of people spend 2-4+ years postdocing or working as a research scientist (or both) before getting jobs. I'm in psychology, and I have several friends who are at 3+ years in a postdoc: one friend about to go into her fifth year as a postdoc (after a disappointing year on the market); another friend going into her second year as a research scientist (after two years as a postdoc - so 4th year post PhD). I have another friend who spent what I think was seven years as a postdoc and a research scientist before finally landing a tenure-track job, although in her case, she loved the city she lived in and only wanted to move if she could go somewhere better.

I think professors who say that their students will have "a ton of interviews" in a saturated field are in denial. Even the very, very good usually don't get "a ton" of interviews, much less multiple choices at the end of the search. A handful of superstars might have 3-4 interviews and some good/lucky people might have 2, possibly even three competing offers. But there are many, many excellent scholars (especially in saturated fields) who only get one offer if they get any. I've observed that lots of professors are completely out of touch with how rough the market is now, even the ones who were more recently hired. That's especially true if you're at a top program, because the recently hired professors in your department were the superstars their years on the market. The new assistant professors who were hired into my department all had 20+ publications in a field when it's uncommon to have more than around 5-10 when you graduate (and even 10 is a lot). And most of them still had one or two years of experience as an assistant professor somewhere. Seems like these days academics expect their new blood to be roaming nomads for the first 5-10 years of their career post grad school. Either way, their advice is not very helpful if you are a more average or above-average-but-not-crazy-prepared applicant.

Anyway, a lot of the market is luck. The right jobs have to be advertised at the right time, and you have to not be competing with the person who is slightly better.

does anyone around here consider....you know.... from time to time...maybe...non-academic positions as viable employment options (**gasp** yes, i said it!)????

I didn't just consider it, I actually made the jump. I finished my PhD and did one year of a postdoc before deciding, for a variety of reasons, academia was not for me. Part of it was definitely witnessing the brutality of the academic job market. I saw so many accomplished, competitive new PhDs who really, really wanted it getting either no offers or getting offers only in parts of the country they didn't want to live in. And then a few of my friends did make it to the Promised Land of the R1 job - including one friend who got an assistant professor position at the #1 program in my field. Then the stories of the 80-hour workweeks came out. Frankly, being a new assistant professor in those positions sounded worse than graduate school to me. I was ambivalent about an academic career in the first place, and I lacked the passion for the independent pursuit of knowledge the way a lot of my friends and colleagues had. I love research and science, but I was more interested in the applications. I wanted faster paced work and I wanted to be able to choose where I lived. Conversely, choosing my exact project didn't matter to me.

So I applied for non-academic jobs. It didn't take me long to find one at all. I love my job - the work is interesting and fun, I love my coworkers, I love my new city, and the workload is reasonable (I work 40-50 hours per week...but some of those hours are spent playing video games :D). And I'm well-compensated for the work I do, which doesn't hurt. Plus the new field is a robust one and steadily growing, so I feel like if I ever want to move on from my current company and role I have many options in the city I currently live in.