2016 Waitlist Thread

[bravesball]

Waitlisted at Missouri. Received an email from Andre Ariew.

[samori]

13 minutes ago, bravesball said:

Waitlisted at Missouri. Received an email from Andre Ariew.

What s/he said.

[peco]

12 minutes ago, bravesball said:

Waitlisted at Missouri. Received an email from Andre Ariew.

Me too.

[dgswaim]

Also WL-ed at Mizzou.

The first-order sentence "For any x there exists a y such that if x is a PhD program in philosophy and y is an applicant and y=dgswaim, then y has been Wait Listed at x" is starting to look like an analytic truth.

Edited March 11, 2016 by dgswaim

[Siegfried42]

Wait listed at Michigan! Really hope this will turn into an offer. So surprised after all these rejections 

[doublekay]

Currently ranked #1 on the waitlist for Cal Poly (San Luis Obispo)'s MS Psychology program. Luckily got accepted to my #2 in San Fransisco, but it's private and the cost of living there is outrageous so *fingers crossed!*

 

Good luck and good vibes to all! 

[dgswaim]

14 minutes ago, doublekay said:

Currently ranked #1 on the waitlist for Cal Poly (San Luis Obispo)'s MS Psychology program. Luckily got accepted to my #2 in San Fransisco, but it's private and the cost of living there is outrageous so *fingers crossed!*

 

Good luck and good vibes to all! 

This is a philosophy forum..................

[doublekay]

Just saw that and am trying to delete my post... I meant to post in the Psychology one, but apparently my waitlist-addled brain was having a "moment."

[Siegfried42]

Waitlisted at Cornell too! Had already resigned myself to a rejection. Turning out to be a good day today!

[Apogeee]

 

7 minutes ago, Siegfried42 said:

Waitlisted at Cornell too! Had already resigned myself to a rejection. Turning out to be a good day today!

Congratulations on your good news. I have been steeling myself for rejections. Is this because of what they call "impostor syndrome"?

[Schwarzwald]

Wait listed at Brandeis. Turn down your offers folks, yall don't really want to go to Brandeis, do you? Nah, yall wanna go do other things, like not go to Brandeis.

[Epictetus]

How many people do we think are on the Cornell waitlist? 12-18 or so for six spots? 

I know the lists can really start moving come April so I'm curious how many people they end up running through.

I had all but written off returning to school. I pressed the panic button a few weeks ago after getting rejected from what I considered to be my safety schools, started working harder at what was supposed to be a temporary job, and just got a raise that by itself is about the size of a year of graduate funding.

I can't believe I've put myself in a situation where I have to choose between money and comfort and what I'd long considered my passion. Getting some early rejections was a serious wake up call. I now realize how low the odds are of success. Sure, we all said it before, but in the background there's the thought that "Well, I'm different. I can beat the odds." Let's face it, everyone going somewhere outside the Leiter top 20 has murmured that to themselves.

But most likely you can't. If we all could, they wouldn't be odds. So now, knowing that the odds apply to me, I know that I face potential futility in 5-6 years, now that much older, and having forgone hundreds of thousands of dollars in the private sector. 

WTF

[dgswaim]

Anyone out there claiming the two Maryland wait lists? Any information to give?

[philthrowaway]

9 hours ago, Epictetus said:

How many people do we think are on the Cornell waitlist? 12-18 or so for six spots? 

I know the lists can really start moving come April so I'm curious how many people they end up running through.

I had all but written off returning to school. I pressed the panic button a few weeks ago after getting rejected from what I considered to be my safety schools, started working harder at what was supposed to be a temporary job, and just got a raise that by itself is about the size of a year of graduate funding.

I can't believe I've put myself in a situation where I have to choose between money and comfort and what I'd long considered my passion. Getting some early rejections was a serious wake up call. I now realize how low the odds are of success. Sure, we all said it before, but in the background there's the thought that "Well, I'm different. I can beat the odds." Let's face it, everyone going somewhere outside the Leiter top 20 has murmured that to themselves.

But most likely you can't. If we all could, they wouldn't be odds. So now, knowing that the odds apply to me, I know that I face potential futility in 5-6 years, now that much older, and having forgone hundreds of thousands of dollars in the private sector. 

WTF

I can empathize with this.  I understand you to mean that, given the abysmal state of the philosophy job market (as partially reflected through the potluck nature of the admissions process), it is a hard personal choice to choose between money/comfort vs passion when you potentially could have both.  I didn't read this as a negative indictment on those who choose to pursue philosophy, rather it acknowledges the fact that such will be a long and difficult road with an uncertain payoff at the end. 

I confess that it's a dilemma that I'm personally struggling with, and that's keeping me awake at nights.  If Leiter's reports are accurate (for example), I am making more now in my 20's than what many seasoned and distinguished philosophy professors in their 40's and 50's are making, and definitely more than the most comparable example for me of an assistant professor in their 30's newly hired in the 2000's.  Taking into account the time and salary foregone in both completing a PhD and trying to find a job afterwards, the loss in terms of opportunity cost is even greater.  It's an unnerving reality for me because I grew up poor and I realized, when I made it, that money doesn't bring you happiness but it does bring you freedom, which is priceless.  I took my mom to Disneyland last year and she cried because she couldn't afford to have taken me there when I was a kid knowing how I desperately wanted to go back then (I remember taking free travel brochures home and pouring over all the deals concerning Disneyland, staring in amazement at pictures of the Disney Castle).

So I guess what I mean to say is that, if one is brilliant and smart enough to get into competitive PhD programs, then one is more than likely to succeed in other fields. And like with people, there can be more than one love in work.  I don't know what to make of this and would love to hear any other insights.

(PS.  Congrats @Epictetus on your raise - knowing how difficult they are to come by, it must be a well-deserved recognition of your work). 

(PPS. I concur with  @dthatphilosopher 's suggestion that perhaps this should be taken to another thread in due course). 

[gughok]

14 minutes ago, philthrowaway said:

I can empathize with this.  I understand you to mean that, given the abysmal state of the philosophy job market (as partially reflected through the potluck nature of the admissions process), it is a hard personal choice to choose between money/comfort vs passion when you potentially could have both.  I didn't read this as a negative indictment on those who choose to pursue philosophy, rather it acknowledges the fact that such will be a long and difficult road with an uncertain payoff at the end. 

I confess that it's a dilemma that I'm personally struggling with, and that's keeping me awake at nights.  If Leiter's reports are accurate (for example), I am making more now in my 20's than what many seasoned and distinguished philosophy professors in their 40's and 50's are making, and definitely more than the most comparable example for me of an assistant professor in their 30's newly hired in the 2000's.  Taking into account the time and salary foregone in both completing a PhD and trying to find a job afterwards, the loss in terms of opportunity cost is even greater.  It's an unnerving reality for me because I grew up poor and I realized, when I made it, that money doesn't bring you happiness but it does bring you freedom, which is priceless.  I took my mom to Disneyland last year and she cried because she couldn't afford to have taken me there when I was a kid knowing how I desperately wanted to go back then (I remember taking free travel brochures home and pouring over all the deals concerning Disneyland, staring in amazement at pictures of the Disney Castle).

So I guess what I mean to say is that, if one is brilliant and smart enough to get into competitive PhD programs, then one is more than likely to succeed in other fields. And like with people, there can be more than one love in work.  I don't know what to make of this and would love to hear any other insights.

(PS.  Congrats @Epictetus on your raise - knowing how difficult they are to come by, it must be a well-deserved recognition of your work). 

(PPS. I concur with  @dthatphilosopher 's suggestion that perhaps this should be taken to another thread in due course). 

I like to try and think of it this way, picking up on your common-sense observation that "if one is brilliant and smart [and hard-working/persevering/etc.] enough to get into competitive PhD programs, then one is more than likely to succeed in other fields": if someone is indeed that capable of succeeding in many potential fields, then at worst going into philosophy is going to be an adventure. Even if one finds after a few years of professional philosophy that they're unsatisfied by the financial compensation, it will have been an incredible life experience. Those years spent are only wasted if they weren't enjoyed - but nobody would (I imagine) study philosophy professionally if they didn't like it. The opportunity cost may number in the many tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of dollars, but if the time was pleasant that's a fine fee to pay in my mind. And, having decided that philosophy isn't well-paying enough for them, anyone bright enough to be a graduate student should have little difficulty finding lucrative employment elsewhere.

It's yet another chapter in one's life, but to be an author capable of penning such words means that whether one chooses to continue the story to its end, or switch to another arc after thirty pages, the book will be a fruitful one.

TL;DR

[Schwarzwald]

What are you guys talking about? I'm in this to make them Badiou bucks.

[panpsychist]

9 hours ago, dgswaim said:

Anyone out there claiming the two Maryland wait lists? Any information to give?

I was also wait-listed at Maryland. Email from Dan Moller this morning. Apparently their wait list is rather long and they seemed to have ordered us according to our AOI. I was told explicitly that I was on the "philosophy of mind waiting list".

[dgswaim]

6 minutes ago, panpsychist said:

I was also wait-listed at Maryland. Email from Dan Moller this morning. Apparently their wait list is rather long and they seemed to have ordered us according to our AOI. I was told explicitly that I was on the "philosophy of mind waiting list".

I wonder if they still have more to send. Hmmm.

[panpsychist]

1 minute ago, dgswaim said:

I wonder if they still have more to send. Hmmm.

Fingers crossed! But you already have to acceptances and a bunch of good waitlists! So that's cool!

[dgswaim]

21 minutes ago, panpsychist said:

Fingers crossed! But you already have to acceptances and a bunch of good waitlists! So that's cool!

But Maryland has one thing nobody else does: Lindley Darden!!!

[Kel Varnsen]

43 minutes ago, panpsychist said:

I was also wait-listed at Maryland. Email from Dan Moller this morning. Apparently their wait list is rather long and they seemed to have ordered us according to our AOI. I was told explicitly that I was on the "philosophy of mind waiting list".

I will probably turn down my offer from Maryland, and mind/cog sci is my AOI.  So you or someone else on the mind list will probably get my spot.

I don't want to make any of you wait, but I have to visit Indiana before I can confidently make my decision.  That'll be in two weeks.

[philthrowaway]

5 hours ago, gughok said:

I like to try and think of it this way, picking up on your common-sense observation that "if one is brilliant and smart [and hard-working/persevering/etc.] enough to get into competitive PhD programs, then one is more than likely to succeed in other fields": if someone is indeed that capable of succeeding in many potential fields, then at worst going into philosophy is going to be an adventure. Even if one finds after a few years of professional philosophy that they're unsatisfied by the financial compensation, it will have been an incredible life experience. Those years spent are only wasted if they weren't enjoyed - but nobody would (I imagine) study philosophy professionally if they didn't like it. The opportunity cost may number in the many tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of dollars, but if the time was pleasant that's a fine fee to pay in my mind. And, having decided that philosophy isn't well-paying enough for them, anyone bright enough to be a graduate student should have little difficulty finding lucrative employment elsewhere.

It's yet another chapter in one's life, but to be an author capable of penning such words means that whether one chooses to continue the story to its end, or switch to another arc after thirty pages, the book will be a fruitful one.

I agree that pursuing philosophy will be an incredible life experience and I definitely do not want to distract anyone from doing this.  I also agree with your "adventure" mindset, which I think is a very good approach. 

In good faith and not wanting to unwittingly mislead anyone about anything that I might have said or implied about my own situation, I should clarify what I meant about my comment - I do not mean that anyone smart enough to get into a competitive PhD program will be able to find lucrative employment afterwards and elsewhere.  In fact, I consider this to be very unlikely (for a plethora of reasons which I will pass over because I consider them to be ancillary) but I only note my dissent because, in accordance with your "adventure" mindset, one shouldn't pursue philosophy for extrinsic economic or social considerations, including thinking that lucrative non-academic employment will be available at the end (which is not true).

Rather, more humbly, I mean to advance a more modest proposition or dilemma.  That even normal life opportunities will be passing you by in the formative years of your 20's as you pursue your PhD candidacy, such as earning and saving money, travelling, buying a house, establishing yourself, getting ahead (beyond academia), and/or having a family (although it doesn't matter if none of these are important for you), noting that some opportunities only come by or are the most fruitful in your 20's.

I only wanted to clarify because I do not wish to mislead anyone about their non-academic job opportunities afterwards.  Part of my own agony comes from the realization that my own fulfilling career will be gone if I choose to pursue a PhD and wanted to return. 

Edited March 13, 2016 by philthrowaway
typo

[AnonymousMonad]

On March 8, 2016 at 6:04 AM, limitsofourlanguage said:

Just trying to get some information that will help me decide where to go visit, but that feels quite awkward to ask the department: do you know of anyone who was waitlisted at Pitt and invited to their visiting days? I'm trying to figure out whether I'm low on the waitlist (though I was told it was unranked), and thus maybe shouldn't take the time to visit, or whether it's just their policy not to invite people on the waitlist to visiting days. 

I know at least one person who is on the WL at Pitt and is still visiting.

[panpsychist]

21 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I will probably turn down my offer from Maryland, and mind/cog sci is my AOI.  So you or someone else on the mind list will probably get my spot.

I don't want to make any of you wait, but I have to visit Indiana before I can confidently make my decision.  That'll be in two weeks.

I'm sure Indiana would be great for you! Both O'Connor and Cao do some fascinating stuff there!

[gughok]

20 hours ago, philthrowaway said:

I agree that pursuing philosophy will be an incredible life experience and I definitely do not want to distract anyone from doing this.  I also agree with your "adventure" mindset, which I think is a very good approach. 

In good faith and not wanting to unwittingly mislead anyone about anything that I might have said or implied about my own situation, I should clarify what I meant about my comment - I do not mean that anyone smart enough to get into a competitive PhD program will be able to find lucrative employment afterwards and elsewhere.  In fact, I consider this to be very unlikely (for a plethora of reasons which I will pass over because I consider them to be ancillary) but I only note my dissent because, in accordance with your "adventure" mindset, one shouldn't pursue philosophy for extrinsic economic or social considerations, including thinking that lucrative non-academic employment will be available at the end (which is not true).

Rather, more humbly, I mean to advance a more modest proposition or dilemma.  That even normal life opportunities will be passing you by in the formative years of your 20's as you pursue your PhD candidacy, such as earning and saving money, travelling, buying a house, establishing yourself, getting ahead (beyond academia), and/or having a family (although it doesn't matter if none of these are important for you), noting that some opportunities only come by or are the most fruitful in your 20's.

I only wanted to clarify because I do not wish to mislead anyone about their non-academic job opportunities afterwards.  Part of my own agony comes from the realization that my own fulfilling career will be gone if I choose to pursue a PhD and wanted to return. 

Hm. I definitely agree with you that certain opportunities will pass, and that this presents a strong dilemma. Nonetheless, I think I see reason to be more optimistic than this about potential non-academic job prospects after leaving professional philosophy.

Here are just a few well-paying industries which (to my knowledge) permit entry at any (well, below 50-60) age that someone with the intellectual talent required for philosophy should be able to enter depending on their personality, listed in descending order of my confidence in the preceding claim: law, IT, tech (e.g. software dev), engineering of all kinds, business (entrepreneurial, managerial, etc.), marketing, finance, numerous others I don't know about. There are plenty of jobs that a bright 30 year-old with a BA and PhD could enter with a little bit of training, especially as autodidactism grows increasingly respected in a number of fields (see particularly tech and IT).

As for your more modest claim: these aren't opportunities that "will be passing you by". They're opportunities waiting for you to take them. You're no less able to "earn and save money, travel, buy a house, and establish yourself" after leaving professional philosophy. You're just late to the party. Sure, you can't "get ahead" anymore, but does that really matter? I don't think life is a competition for being the youngest CEO in history or any such thing.

I won't claim that your own career will be easy to return to because I don't know what it is. I will simply claim that if someone finds that philosophy isn't for them, they'll have hardly any more difficulty finding profitable positions at 32 than they would have had at 22, save certain niche occupations that are very age dependent. There are many late bloomers, after all, who bloom no weaker for the fact: Alan Rickman and J. K. Rowling come to mind as immediate examples.