MA Program Rankings

[A blighted one]

So, I applied for all MA programs this round because I want to get a bit of graduate school experience before I commit to a PhD program. I've noticed that there is no ranking system for MA programs and I'm wondering how I can go about finding out how certain MA programs are perceived by the academic world when there aren't any rankings.  When schools house both MA and PhD students, it's easier because I can base my perception of the MA program's rank on the PhD program's rank, but what about schools that don't have a PhD program? About half the schools that I applied for are cases of the latter.

Although I am not overly concerned with school ranking and hope to focus more on fit and funding opportunities, I do think that it is somewhat important to consider when weighing options. That is, if I want to get into a more competitive PhD program in a few years.  One last question: how important do you all think that school ranking is when accepting or declining an MA program offer with full funding? Does full (and quite generous) funding override program prestige?

Thanks for your input!

Edited February 5, 2016 by A blighted one
typos

[A blighted one]

Any input?

[Need Coffee in an IV]

Tbh I feel like full funding would make me choose a "lesser rank" school. Then again, I'm stopping right after my masters to get a job so I'm not looking into the future. But I think fit and funding is the best way to decide on a program. I'm also applying for Fall 2016 so I'm not an expert at all. But congrats on the funding and acceptances!

[A blighted one]

11 minutes ago, Need Coffee in an IV said:

Tbh I feel like full funding would make me choose a "lesser rank" school. Then again, I'm stopping right after my masters to get a job so I'm not looking into the future. But I think fit and funding is the best way to decide on a program. I'm also applying for Fall 2016 so I'm not an expert at all. But congrats on the funding and acceptances!

Thanks for your reply! This is my first time applying for grad school and I chose to apply only for funded MAs. My current predicament is that I have 3 fully funded offers, some more generous than others, and I'm having a really hard time deciding between better funding/more time to focus on my own studies and research (won't have to teach my first year because I recieved a fellowship) and program prestige. I feel that I am an equally good fit for all 3 programs, and each has resources and faculty that will undoubtedly benefit me in different ways. The program that has offered me the best (by far) funding package has a far lower PhD ranking, but I'd be attending the MA, not the PhD and am planning on applying for a PhD elsewhere after I complete my MA, so does it even matter?

I know that this is a best case scenario but I never realized how nerve wracking this decision could be!

Edited February 22, 2016 by A blighted one

[DaniB23]

11 hours ago, A blighted one said:

Thanks for your reply! This is my first time applying for grad school and I chose to apply only for funded MAs. My current predicament is that I have 3 fully funded offers, some more generous than others, and I'm having a really hard time deciding between better funding/more time to focus on my own studies and research (won't have to teach my first year because I recieved a fellowship) and program prestige. I feel that I am an equally good fit for all 3 programs, and each has resources and faculty that will undoubtedly benefit me in different ways. The program that has offered me the best (by far) funding package has a far lower PhD ranking, but I'd be attending the MA, not the PhD and am planning on applying for a PhD elsewhere after I complete my MA, so does it even matter?

I know that this is a best case scenario but I never realized how nerve wracking this decision could be!

I'm currently in an MA program that requires teaching for both years (if you are funded) and I honestly wouldn't trade it for time for my own research.  Mostly because if you are planning to stay in Academia, teaching will always be a big part of that and the sooner you get that experience A. the sooner you know if it's for you or not and B. the more you have to put on CV when you apply to PhD programs (at MSU your TA pay rate is determined by your teaching experience; two years of experience bumps you up a rank in pay).  In terms of prestige, I really don't have an answer.  Being at an R1 all of my PhD friends have said that I will have a better shot with my applications because of the R1 clout, but so far I'm 2/7 with rejections-so who knows!

[A blighted one]

6 hours ago, DaniB23 said:

I'm currently in an MA program that requires teaching for both years (if you are funded) and I honestly wouldn't trade it for time for my own research.  Mostly because if you are planning to stay in Academia, teaching will always be a big part of that and the sooner you get that experience A. the sooner you know if it's for you or not and B. the more you have to put on CV when you apply to PhD programs (at MSU your TA pay rate is determined by your teaching experience; two years of experience bumps you up a rank in pay).  In terms of prestige, I really don't have an answer.  Being at an R1 all of my PhD friends have said that I will have a better shot with my applications because of the R1 clout, but so far I'm 2/7 with rejections-so who knows!

Hmm, I hear different things from different people. I keep reading that it doesn't matter where you get your MA. A friend of mine went to some random R2 state school for her MA and does her PhD at UC Berkeley now, so I guess that supports that view. Some say teaching doesn't matter, adcoms care about funding/fellowships/publications/conference presentations, etc. I would think that all of these things matter, including teaching experience. With my fellowship offer I would still teach for a year, though.

Edited February 22, 2016 by A blighted one

[bhr]

Funding trumps everything when it comes to an MA, at least in my opinion. Outside of programs that admit directly from their own PhDs (like PSU), I don't think that there is a real advantage to any specific program outside of what you make of it. Talk to the DGS and see where they are placing people. Look up the current MAs there and see where they are publishing, if they are. I always encourage people to go somewhere where you can teach, and to work in the writing center, as those are usually the best ways to fund a PhD at most schools (teaching your own section of FYW is gold at some schools, as Dani said earlier)

[cloudofunknowing]

Agreed. Unless you have the financial resources to foot the bill for an MA that doesn't fund you, it makes little sense to go into into debt for an MA (or further into) if you intend to pursue a PhD afterward. And, as far as I've been able to discern, "rankings" for MA programs don't exist as such in the way that they do for PhD programs in literary studies. And completing an MA at a regional university - that does or doesn't offer a PhD - doesn't necessarily mean that one's chances of getting into a a highly ranked PhD program. The regional university where I completed my MFA, for example, offers an MA in English with Lit or Rhet/Comp emphases. It also provides funding (at least partial, if not potentially more) for those who seek it, provides teaching exp in classroom and writing center settings, and provides tuition wavers and/or in-stare tuition rates for those who aren't residents. The school is more well-known for the MFA program than the MA, but has had a success in placing students in PhD programs recently. One classmate of mine is now pursuing a PhD at UC-Irvine; another is doing the same at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. I am UT-Austin. We all applied to programs during the same cycle. 

[empress-marmot]

19 hours ago, A blighted one said:

Hmm, I hear different things from different people. I keep reading that it doesn't matter where you get your MA. A friend of mine went to some random R2 state school for her MA and does her PhD at UC Berkeley now, so I guess that supports that view. Some say teaching doesn't matter, adcoms care about funding/fellowships/publications/conference presentations, etc. I would think that all of these things matter, including teaching experience. With my fellowship offer I would still teach for a year, though.

If you have an idea of where you want to do your PhD, why not check out the CVs of the PhD students in its program? See what those people are doing, and what they did during their MA. You are correct when you write that adcomms like to see awards, perhaps conference presentations, perhaps publications, etc (depends on field). I think we can all agree that PhD programs want to see someone who is beginning to know their research area, and has a good idea of the (general) kind of research they'll be doing in that program. 

Your CV shows that with the type of awards/grants you've earned, what activities you've done in your MA program, etc., etc. Again, activities depend on field/program. For example, my program encourages its students to apply for conferences, but your field/program might not. 

Better than ranking MA programs, why not choose one that will help you acquire the skills you need for the PhD/future careers? How does the faculty mentor students through the PhD application process? Are they willing to do research with you? What about reviewing conference proposals, or giving career advice? 

6 hours ago, bhr said:

Funding trumps everything when it comes to an MA, at least in my opinion. Outside of programs that admit directly from their own PhDs (like PSU), I don't think that there is a real advantage to any specific program outside of what you make of it. Talk to the DGS and see where they are placing people. Look up the current MAs there and see where they are publishing, if they are. I always encourage people to go somewhere where you can teach, and to work in the writing center, as those are usually the best ways to fund a PhD at most schools (teaching your own section of FYW is gold at some schools, as Dani said earlier)

As bhr said, don't be afraid to ask about placement. 

[A blighted one]

Thanks for your help, everyone! I'm definitely investigating placement rates, student-faculty interaction, opportunities for MA students to distinguish themselves (conference presentations, publications, faculty support, etc.).

What do you think of attending an R2 university over an R1 for an MA? I've been fully funded at both institutions but have received a fellowship at the R2, which will give me significantly more funding.

Edited February 23, 2016 by A blighted one

[ProfLorax]

I know I've said this before, but when it comes to MA programs:

[rising_star]

2 hours ago, A blighted one said:

Thanks for your help, everyone! I'm definitely investigating placement rates, student-faculty interaction, opportunities for MA students to distinguish themselves (conference presentations, publications, faculty support, etc.).

What do you think of attending an R2 university over an R1 for an MA? I've been fully funded at both institutions but have received a fellowship at the R2, which will give me significantly more funding.

Money. Always.

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

Uh, count me as the "pumping the brakes a bit on the money guy".

Obviously it's important and for what it's worth, I'm sure when we say "money" or "funding" we mean: the means to live/survive with minimum struggle in that specific location. 

23k in LA isn't necessarily better than 17k in Small-town, USA. 

money is great - but unless you're able to do something useful with the extra cash (pay off loans, save for a house, conference travel) anything beyond living expenses is sorta a "push" for me. 

But - getting a fellowship and the extra money probably makes you feel like an up-and-coming academic rockstar - and that's totally significant and totally worth something (to me, anyways). 

[ProfLorax]

I agree, BowTies, and I think there are other considerations as well (faculty, preparation for PhD program, courses offered). I guess I'm assuming that the OP has done cost of living type calculations in relation to funding. 

But in the question over if ranking should trump funding? Funding (in relation to cost of living) should win out any day with MA programs. Basically, I am just trying to emphasize over and over: ranking should not be a consideration when choosing an MA program.

[A blighted one]

Thanks everyone! I'm feeling better about making this difficult decision!

[KappaRoss]

Take fit/opportunity/happiness over money.

 

If you're going to go somewhere that you don't really want to go to, and you're only going there because you got funded, then you probably won't be happy there, and it could affect learning outcomes and overall outcomes.

 

It sounds like you'd much rather go to the R1, so I would go there. Simply put, I'd go to where I wanted to go.

 

It also depends on the money differences. If you're going to be 40K in debt after the MA, then it MIGHT be better to go to the funded MA. But it won't make a damn difference where you go if you don't like it and don't think you'd be happy there.

[A blighted one]

8 hours ago, mikeck said:

Take fit/opportunity/happiness over money.

 

If you're going to go somewhere that you don't really want to go to, and you're only going there because you got funded, then you probably won't be happy there, and it could affect learning outcomes and overall outcomes.

 

It sounds like you'd much rather go to the R1, so I would go there. Simply put, I'd go to where I wanted to go.

 

It also depends on the money differences. If you're going to be 40K in debt after the MA, then it MIGHT be better to go to the funded MA. But it won't make a damn difference where you go if you don't like it and don't think you'd be happy there.

Actually, I wouldn't say that I would much rather go to the R1. In fact, the R2 seems better suited to my interests and overall goals in an MA program. It seems like your own biases have convinced you of my stance on my own inquiry.

Edited February 25, 2016 by A blighted one

[CarolineNC]

I'm not offering advice here, but I'm just going to share my own personal anecdote because sometimes I feel like the "take the funded MA or don't take an MA at all" tack didn't pay off all that well for me. 

When I applied to MA programs in 2012, I had three funded options: Kansas, Nebraska, and South Carolina (where I did my undergrad). I had one unfunded offer, Georgetown. I ended up going with one of the funded offers because they offered me the most money. However, I sort of regret going there. I'm happy I ended up in a good PhD program, but honestly I think it was because of my obsession with getting into a good program and not because the MA program I chose does a particularly good job of getting people into great programs. I mean, they don't really have a great record of getting people into top programs. Plus, I had to spend three years in a sucky area and couldn't soak up the opportunities of living in DC. I can't help but wonder whether, if I had gone to Georgetown, a much more prestigious school, I'd have gotten into a better (and better funded) PhD program. I know other MA programs certainly have a better track record than the one I chose. 

On the other hand: I don't know WTF I was thinking with the MA programs I applied to! If I wasn't going to go to a hotshot school for my MA like UVA or Georgetown or Northwestern or something, which I wasn't, I don't know why the hell I didn't apply to regional schools in desirable locations. So many programs offer MAs and those students get into PhD programs just as often as people from schools like Nebraska, Kansas, etc.. Like, why didn't I apply to Appalachian State or Villanova or Wake Forest, etc. etc.? 

Anyway, really I have no advice, but I think what I am trying to say is that "follow the money" and "follow the prestige" don't have to be hard and fast rules. You gotta do what you think is best for yourself and not listen to the supposedly infallible grad cafe wisdom. It's important to move somewhere you'll enjoy living and it's important to pick a school that will help you best achieve your goals. Taking out loans sucks, but sometimes it's necessary. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by CarolineNC

[klader]

There's some great advice on this thread! I'm comparing rankings/prestige and finances as I decide between programs as well, and I've found that reaching out to people who have more knowledge of the specific programs is very helpful in considering each program. The advice I've received from people mirrors the advice here (follow the money, don't worry about MA rankings too much, look into each school's placement rates and opportunities for grad students, and focus on which program can best help YOU personally). Do you know anyone who has gotten in/attended your prospective schools that could perhaps give you a better look into the specific programs? Even on this site?

I agree with everyone that money is definitely important, but so is fit. You said that the R2 seems better suited to your interests and overall goals, so do you think that would better help you prepare for PhD work (if you go that route)? Could you see yourself working closely with the faculty in the program and being able to do the kind of work that you want to do? I've been told by a lot of people that you get the most out of a grad program when you get along well with the faculty. Also, is there a big difference in the funding between the schools? (There's a biggish difference between my highest and lowest stipend offers - about 4.5 thousand dollars). You said that you were offered a fellowship at the R2, so I would imagine that would be impressive when you apply for PhD programs (and that it can help you focus more on your own research!).

I really don't have much advice to offer except to dig deep and think about what's best for you as the rising scholar that you are. I find this entire process so tricky because each person is so different and has unique goals and interests, so in the end, its ultimately up to us to decide what's best!

[puyple]

On 2/24/2016 at 10:50 AM, CarolineNC said:

I'm not offering advice here, but I'm just going to share my own personal anecdote because sometimes I feel like the "take the funded MA or don't take an MA at all" tack didn't pay off all that well for me. 

When I applied to MA programs in 2012, I had three funded options: Kansas, Nebraska, and South Carolina (where I did my undergrad). I had one unfunded offer, Georgetown. I ended up going with one of the funded offers because they offered me the most money. However, I sort of regret going there. I'm happy I ended up in a good PhD program, but honestly I think it was because of my obsession with getting into a good program and not because the MA program I chose does a particularly good job of getting people into great programs. I mean, they don't really have a great record of getting people into top programs. Plus, I had to spend three years in a sucky area and couldn't soak up the opportunities of living in DC. I can't help but wonder whether, if I had gone to Georgetown, a much more prestigious school, I'd have gotten into a better (and better funded) PhD program. I know other MA programs certainly have a better track record than the one I chose. 

On the other hand: I don't know WTF I was thinking with the MA programs I applied to! If I wasn't going to go to a hotshot school for my MA like UVA or Georgetown or Northwestern or something, which I wasn't, I don't know why the hell I didn't apply to regional schools in desirable locations. So many programs offer MAs and those students get into PhD programs just as often as people from schools like Nebraska, Kansas, etc.. Like, why didn't I apply to Appalachian State or Villanova or Wake Forest, etc. etc.? 

Anyway, really I have no advice, but I think what I am trying to say is that "follow the money" and "follow the prestige" don't have to be hard and fast rules. You gotta do what you think is best for yourself and not listen to the supposedly infallible grad cafe wisdom. It's important to move somewhere you'll enjoy living and it's important to pick a school that will help you best achieve your goals. Taking out loans sucks, but sometimes it's necessary. 

I am looking at an incredibly similar situation.  My undergrad alma mater is looking to partially fund me, but I got an unfunded offer from Georgetown.  I don't have any undergrad debt, so I'm willing to take on a little (not that Georgetown would only be a little).  However, I know that Georgetown would most likely place me into a better PhD program.  I'm just scanning the forums and trying to get a feel for what to even take into account in making this decision?

[rising_star]

3 hours ago, puyple said:

I am looking at an incredibly similar situation.  My undergrad alma mater is looking to partially fund me, but I got an unfunded offer from Georgetown.  I don't have any undergrad debt, so I'm willing to take on a little (not that Georgetown would only be a little).  However, I know that Georgetown would most likely place me into a better PhD program.  I'm just scanning the forums and trying to get a feel for what to even take into account in making this decision?

Think about where you'll get the best opportunities and have the best chance to grow as a researcher. If you're worried about money, will you be able to grow as a scholar? 

[puyple]

1 minute ago, rising_star said:

Think about where you'll get the best opportunities and have the best chance to grow as a researcher. If you're worried about money, will you be able to grow as a scholar? 

I'm trying to figure out how much the institution matters to adcoms at a PhD level.  I've seen a lot of people on the forum say that it doesn't matter where you get your MA, but I've only ever seen that here on the forum.  If there's any truth to that, I don't want to incur $60k+ of debt.  That's more of where I'm coming from.  

[rising_star]

10 minutes ago, puyple said:

I'm trying to figure out how much the institution matters to adcoms at a PhD level.  I've seen a lot of people on the forum say that it doesn't matter where you get your MA, but I've only ever seen that here on the forum.  If there's any truth to that, I don't want to incur $60k+ of debt.  That's more of where I'm coming from.  

The MA is more about what you do during the program than it is about where you go. If you go to Georgetown but don't become a better writer, write a good thesis, or take advantage of opportunities to share your work at conferences, then you're no better off than you would've been if you hadn't gone at all.

[puyple]

50 minutes ago, rising_star said:

The MA is more about what you do during the program than it is about where you go. If you go to Georgetown but don't become a better writer, write a good thesis, or take advantage of opportunities to share your work at conferences, then you're no better off than you would've been if you hadn't gone at all.

That makes sense.  But Georgetown has much better faculty in my field than my other option, so I feel that they would do a better job helping me achieve all of these things you've mentioned.  I appreciate your input.

[rising_star]

If they aren't funding you, then they aren't that invested in you. Just something to consider.