Is it worth applying to PhD programs straight out of undergrad?

[love2read]

As I begin to look seriously into the next step after my undergraduate program, I would like to be realistic not only with where I apply, but also get an idea of the potential outcomes.  As I wrote in my other recent post, I am looking at several paths and trying to find POIs that would line up with what I would like to research.  The problem is, some of the schools that have a suitable mentor only offer a PhD program.  Even with stellar stats, many people on the results board of thegradcafe have been rejected at these schools.  Is it highly unlikely to gain admittance to one of the better known History or Art History PhD programs if you don't have a master's in hand? 

I am not in the financial position to fund a master's program fully, but I am having a hard time finding funded master's at schools that would offer a match for me in terms of area of focus and a POI.  The master's programs that I think would be an awesome fit, (Duke, Boston U. to name two) do not offer funding for their master's students.  Have any of you found success in finding outside funding for master's programs?  I guess I need to start researching that next!

After searching thegradcafe, there was a list of potential funded master's programs that was posted a couple of years ago.  I found two schools, Indiana and Delaware, that supposedly offer funded master's.  Indiana in particular has a prof that would be a good match for me. So, I guess the thing to do is just apply to all and see what happens!  Thanks for listening and for any advice!

 

[rising_star]

A master's program is two years. It doesn't have to have a POI who is the perfect fit for your research interests. Really, you need someone who can help guide you in your interests and give you the historical grounding to put the work you want to do at the doctoral level into the appropriate context. Working with the absolute perfect POI is not necessary, especially if that person is in a department which either doesn't have or doesn't fund master's students. You could take a two-pronged approach and apply both to the PhD programs with the perfect POI and to funded master's programs, which should maximize your chances.

[anxietygirl]

I am currently in undergrad, and I applied to seven PhD programs, and I was admitted to four of them (a few I still haven't heard back from). I think it is possible to find success in the doctoral application process as an undergrad, but you really need to have a direction/historical focus, as well as research experience and languages (but, ultimately, keep in mind that grad admissions is a numbers game and a lot of really qualified people don't get in regardless). If you are looking for funded masters programs, I know that William & Mary offers one. 

Also, I think you have to be willing to look outside of the "top ten" programs. I am happily committed to a top thirty school, with a really supportive faculty and full funding for seven years, and I may not have found that community or had this opportunity if I had only looked at the Ivies (not that there is anything wrong with applying to them, obviously). So, I think if you are willing to apply widely and you have a direction and research experience, it might be worth it. On the other hand, a masters can be useful if you would rather take some more time to figure out what your historical focus is/work on languages/do research. 

Also a bunch of phd programs have the option to be considered for a masters (which are often at least partially funded) if you don't make it into the doctoral program. These are good because then you can apply for two options with one application. Anyways, feel free to PM me if you have questions. Good luck! 

[love2read]

Thanks for your response rising_star and anxietygirl!  As someone very new to all of this, I guess I am a bit confused.  I thought it was important to find a program who had at least one professor that lined up with my interests, regardless of whether it was a master's or a PhD program.  Are you saying that I do not need to be as concerned with a fit of a faculty member as I thought?  That would be very helpful because the nature of my research/interest spreads across several fields and I am having a difficult time finding many who align well......

BTW are there more funded master's that could be included to these lists from other posts on thegradcafe" 

Art History:

Williams

Tulane

Penn State

Syracuse

Hunter

Nebraska-Lincoln

 

In History:

   0

• UW-Milwaukee, BGSU (Ohio), U of Akron (Ohio), Kent State (Ohio), Vermont

thanks to Katzenmusik (2013)  these: thanks Katzenmusik 

 

• Auburn University: MA students eligible for full funding
• Case Western Reserve University: some MA fellowships through the Julia Edwards Fund, program seems to try to provide tuition waivers as well
• Florida International University: MA students eligible for assistantships; limited number of tuition waivers also available
• Georgia State University: MA students eligible for assistantships
• Indiana University - Bloomington: they "provide multiyear financial support for the vast majority of students admitted at the MA and PhD levels."
• Iowa State University: MA students eligible for assistantships
• Kent State University: MA students eligible for full funding
• Miami University (Ohio): full funding for MA students. No PhD program.
• Northeastern University: some partial tuition waivers available
• Northern Illinois University: MA students eligible for funding
• Ohio University: full funding for MA students
• Oklahoma State University: MA students eligible for full funding
• Portland State University: full funding awarded to a number of MA students. No PhD program. 
• Southern Illinois University - Carbondale: "Approximately 60% of our MA and PhD students receive some form of funding."
• St. Louis University: assistantships available to MA students
• Texas Tech University: MA students eligible for full funding
• University of Alabama - Tuscaloosa: full funding available to MA students, limited number
• University of Cincinnati: tuition waivers (80% - 100%) offered to most MA students, assistantships awarded competitively
• University of Delaware: MA students eligible for full funding
• University of Hawaii - Manoa: MA students eligible for full funding
• University of Houston: MA students eligible for assistantships - also a public history fellowship
• University of Maine - Orono: MA students eligible for full funding
• University of Massachusetts - Amherst: full funding for select MA students, merit-based
• University of Mississippi: full funding awarded to a few, based on merit, as well as some scholarships for unrepresented minorities
• University of New Hampshire: MA students eligible for funding
• University of Oregon: full funding available to MAs, awarded on competitive basis
• University of Rochester: half-tuition scholarships available to MA students
• University of South Carolina: full funding available to "many" MA students
• University of Utah: MA students focusing on the American West eligible for the May Fellowship. Possibly other full funding available to MA's (?).
• Washington State University: MA students eligible for assistantships, awarded competitively
• Western Michigan University: MA students eligible for assistantships

Anxietygirl, I have looked at WM as a possibility.  The only downside (or I guess upside depending on how you look at it!) is that it is a one year program.  I've read on here that some people do not think that is enough time to engage in serious research/preparation.  I am trying to acquire language prep in undergrad, and will be doing a two semester Honors Research Thesis....trying like crazy to be competitive for admission somewhere, but like you said, it is very humbling to know that it could be for naught at some places.  I definitely have no problem going to a place that fits me, but may not be a top level program.  Financial support is going to trump prestige in my situation. Again, thanks for everyone's support and advice! 

Edited February 24, 2016 by love2read

[rising_star]

6 hours ago, love2read said:

Thanks for your response rising_star and anxietygirl!  As someone very new to all of this, I guess I am a bit confused.  I thought it was important to find a program who had at least one professor that lined up with my interests, regardless of whether it was a master's or a PhD program.  Are you saying that I do not need to be as concerned with a fit of a faculty member as I thought?  That would be very helpful because the nature of my research/interest spreads across several fields and I am having a difficult time finding many who align well......

It depends on what you mean by fit. If you're interested in German history, then you'll ideally attend a program that has a German historian. But, maybe you're really interested in German labor history so you go to a program that has an American labor historian and a few historians of Western Europe. The latter wouldn't (at least at first) seem like a perfect fit but could still let you draw on the expertise you need to do the project you want to do. My point is that you don't need to find someone that is doing exactly what you want to do. Rather, you can find people who do things similar to what you want to do and can help you do whatever project most interests you.

Here's an example (not a historian but this is still probably relevant). My master's advisor and I didn't work within the same theoretical/methodological framework, the same country, or the same broader context. BUT, we were interested in the same overarching theories for explaining things. I put people on my MA thesis committee who were more familiar with the methods I was using or the specific theories but, ze read everything I wrote and gave me fantastic insight. My MA advisor had a perspective on things that others didn't have precisely because it wasn't their main thing. In the process, they made me a better scholar because I had to more clearly justify my project to someone outside the subfield. On paper, my MA advisor would NOT have been a great fit for the project I did but, it worked out really well and I got into all the top PhD programs in my subfield to which I applied. I know that my advisor helped make that happen because they made me a better researcher, writer, and thinker.

[TMP]

From our exchanges, it seems to me the only reason you would do a terminal MA is if you're not sure if you can commit to a PhD and want to experience a little bit of graduate school.  Otherwise, I'd encourage you to apply straight to PhD.  If you find that it is too much for you, you can at least try to leave with a MA in hand.  Nobody will hold a serious grudge as everyone knows that one cannot be certainly sure if the PhD is right for that person.

A master's helps but to a certain extent.  You already have a honors thesis that will demonstrate your potential to do research.  You have a good GPA.  You have things going for you.

If you really want to avoid debt, then read up materials in your fields of interest in your free time while you work full-time instead of doing the master's.  Not all credits can be transferred into the PhD program, FYI.

[BlackBear50]

If you know what you're interested in and you're ready to commit, go for it. I did, was fortunate enough to be accepted, and am very thankful I went for it.

[LaurenM]

I'm pretty much in agreement with what everyone has said so far. I was pretty certain I wanted to go for the PhD, but my advisor gave me the advice that he says he gives to everyone, which was to take time off. I started to have some doubts, but after witnessing my mid-life crisis (or quarter-life, perhaps) he encouraged me to apply anyway and see what happened. I've since been accepted into four really good programs and I'm so glad I applied now instead of waiting another year or so or just trying to get a master's first. If I find that it's not for me then I can leave with the MA, but at least I'll have the option. So  before I start rambling too much, I agree with the end of your original post. Apply and see what happens--options are always good to have! And good luck!  

[anthrostudentcyn]

Ok my opinion: as someone who applied out of undergrad, but only has one PhD acceptance that I may decline. I think if you have a really specific project, apply, go for it, but I also think aplying the fall AFTER you graduate might be best. This is mostly for logistics reasons: a) I had my half my senior thesis due on the same day as many of my applications. It was a ridiculous amount of work.b ) you will have a year between undergrad and a phd instead of going right in and c) if you have a senior thesis, that will be fully done. 

 

Overall, I think it's really up to you!

[L13]

I unwisely applied to two PhD programs as a senior last year, when I was busy with coursework, and was rejected by both.

This is my second application cycle and I applied to five PhD programs without a master's degree and was accepted to two. There were some minor improvements to my application that must have amounted to a better package overall, but in all honesty I did not make fundamental changes to it because I got a job in June and was too busy/tired to devote much time to my applications in the subsequent months.

I think I would have had a better chance of getting into some programs with a master's in hand, but I am nevertheless very happy with my results. JHU is the best fit for me considering my proposed dissertation topic and I managed to get accepted there, so I have absolutely no regrets.

if you have the language skills you need and a good idea of what you want to do in grad school, your application can be competitive.

[reremoop]

I have been working full-time since graduating from undergrad in a mostly unrelated field to what I plan to study in a MA program. I didn't go straight into graduate school. During the past few years I have managed to pay off most of my student debt, while affording to take a couple of graduate courses as a non-degree student. A few cycles ago I attempted to apply to a PhD program in American Studies (I was taking a course at the school at the time) knowing full well I would likely not get in. Of course I didn't get in, so I took the time to build on my record as an academic, proving myself through graduate coursework, working on a writing sample, etc.

I knew that I would benefit from a MA program prior to going for a PhD. While I have a pretty narrowed area of focus, I think I need more exposure to research at the graduate level to be fully successful in as a PhD student. I don't think it would hurt for you to apply to both MA programs and PhD programs. Out of the 6 MA programs I have applied to, I have been accepted to all but one that I am still waiting on. One offer is for full funding, at least two provide partial (almost full) funding. I did not want to do a MA first because I had always thought I would pay out of pocket, but that will not be the case. Cast your net widely if you can afford the application fees. Even if you are a strong student, you may not be accepted into the PhD program of your dreams, but you may get accepted as a MA student to a school where you will not need to take on debt and you can prove yourself. If you find that you cannot present yourself as a great candidate due to the stress of senior year, take the following year to work, perhaps intern, work on your language skills, etc.

I was upset after realizing I'd need a MA to be more competitive, but I think it has all worked out for the best.