Columbia $$$ vs Rutgers $

[G-MSW]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to start this thread because I haven't really seen much talk about people's experiences with the Rutgers MSW program. I am stuck between these 2 schools, both of which have great programs, but one is MUCH cheaper than the other.

What are your opinions about going to an Ivy League school (& paying for the Ivy League name) for an MSW? Is it worth it to be (in my particular case) about $16,000 more in debt for Columbia than going to my state school of Rutgers with a great program?

If anyone has experience going to school in the city, it would be nice to hear what that's like, especially since I currently go to school in New Jersey.

If anyone currently goes to Rutgers, what is your experience like?

Just for some background info, I am aiming to do the clinical route and would like to be an LCSW eventually.

Thanks so much for any info/opinions/thoughts you may have, this decision is tough and I flip flop back and forth about which program I should choose!

[RCtheSS]

So after speaking with multiple colleagues with MSW degrees, and hearing word of mouth about folks who went to Columbia's MSW program (this serves as a disclaimer of subjective and anecdotal evidence to follow)...

It is not worth it, especially if you are aiming to do clinical work. Why go into debt for an inflated concept of prestige when you can easily graduate with little to no debt? You will still be able to enter your field of interest after completing a program at Rutgers, except you won't have student loans looming over you as you establish your career. For me, personally, it isn't worth the investment. Follow the money! The Ivy League ain't always what it's cracked up to be. 

[G-MSW]

Thanks for your input!

[Joy418]

I think Ivy league schools carry a lot more weight in undergrad and certain specific grad degrees (maybe med school) but not for social work. I think people in the social work field get that, for the most part, and aren't going to penalize you for not having a Columbia degree. Especially since so many of the Ivy MSW programs have huge acceptance rates. I got in to the #1 ranked MSW programs, and decided to go to Case Western (which yes, is still highly ranked) because I got a full ride. Loans are just not worth it!

[morningjunky]

Congrats on your acceptances! Rutgers and Columbia's programs are both great for clinical routes. Rutgers has plenty of therapy courses for you to become the best clinician (Columbia does as well). It's just a matter of personal fit and what your values are and what you ultimately want out of your education.

Per Rutger's website:

19:910:507  Psychopathology (3)
19:910:530 Solution Focused Therapy
19:910:550 Play Therapy
http://socialwork.rutgers.edu/current/mswcourses.aspx

Fieldwork is one of the most important parts of an MSW program (this is, after all where we learn the foundation of social work and translate theory into practice) and a few of my friends have/are attending Columbia and Rutgers and many of these programs offer the same field placements. Can you see what sorts of field placements are available for your first and second years at both schools? More importantly, your second year field placements are extremely important as it can lead to a good percentage of being hired. Will this company/place of employment offer your supervision for your LCSW? Look at Post-MSW fellowships' requirements as this is a great way to build your resume, learn critical clinical skills while offering clinical supervision for your license.

Berkeley's Post-MSW Fellowship in Clinical Social Work:
QUALIFICATIONS: Applicants must have a master's degree in social work from an accredited training institution. All applicants must have graduated by July 25, 2016. Course work must include personality development, psychopathology, and theories and techniques of psychotherapy. Applicants must have two years of supervised clinical experience as part of their master's training. Candidates with a demonstrated interest in working with multicultural populations are preferred.
http://www.uhs.berkeley.edu/home/joinourteam/cps/mswintern/training1.shtml

So if you decide to enroll at Rutgers, you could still apply for various Post-MSW fellowships since you have access to various clinical/therapy mode courses. And you would save money. However, if name recognition is more important to you for whatever reason (personal or professional such as wanting to practice outside of the East Coast, then Columbia's name might possibly help since it is well known). It's entirely a personal decision.

Some questions you should ask yourself include:

1) How large/small are classes? What is the average class size? Do you prefer larger or smaller class sizes? Do you enjoy a smaller cohort or larger cohort?
2) Where do I want to practice after I graduate? Do you want to stay in the state you attended your MSW for or do you want to move? There can be lots of issues with licensing and rolling over hours if you decide to move to a notoriously difficult state to do so (i.e.: California).
3) What sorts of field placements are available? Do these field placements line up with what you want to do as a social worker and your areas of interest?
4) How many students find a job within 6 months (within 12 months) post graduation?
5) How large is the alumni network? Are there career services for alumni?
6) What is the average salary of an MSW graduate down the time line (1st year, 5 years, 10 years)?
7) What sorts of electives and classes are offered? If you are interested in getting your LCSW and already know you want to specialize in a specific sort of model of therapy (i.e.: CBT), look to see if CBT is offered.
8) What are current faculty conducting researching on? Are there are specializations or concentrations or areas you are particularly interested in? 
9) Lastly, finances. How much do you want to take out in loans? Will you be happy with your quality of life if you accrue over $80K in debt and make $45K your first year post graduation? Do you have hefty loans from undergrad? Make sure to use the following link below to estimate your monthly loan payments and how much your initial loan will result in due to interest charges. For example, a $60,000 loan with an average interest rate of 6.8% with a term of 10 years ends up becoming over $82K. Your total interested paid will be in excess of $22K. Nearly all of us in MSW programs will take our loans and accrue debt, but it's especially important to educate ourselves of the reality of repaying back these loans once we graduate. Luckily, there are plenty of resources and programs offered for social workers in assisting us in this process. However, we shouldn't rely on these resources solely to help us. As social workers, we advocate for others, but we must also learn to advocate for ourselves and educate ourselves. Let's be honest. Debt can be crippling and can vastly affect one's quality of life. 
http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/091514p14.shtml
http://socialwork.nyu.edu/alumni/career-licensing-resources/loan-forgiveness.html

A great old thread on the public college vs. private college debate for MSW programs:

 

 

[The Nerd]

Hello! I too was choosing between Rutgers and Columbia. I loved both programs, particularly Rutger's VAWC certificate. But ultimately, after interacting with the staff at both schools, looking at the financial aid package Columbia offered me, and doing more research on their programs, I chose Columbia. My opinion is if it's only $16,000 more, choose Columbia if you like the program more. $16,000 is not a lot of money over the course of 10 years, the price is worth going to the school you like better (if you do like Columbia's program more.) Especially if you do the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which I have been doing for about a year, it's worth it. People invest in lots of things, and lots of those things aren't guarantees. The way I see it, a degree is the only investment you make that will always stay the same. You can always say "I went to Columbia" after this investment, no one can take your degree away from you. If you are willing to invest in a home or a business or whatever, which people do all the time, investing in yourself and your education is worth it. Of course, if both programs offered are the same for you, and neither is better for your career path/preferences but instead their programs seem equal, choose the one that costs less because Rutgers is also a great school. But if you are leaning towards Columbia but are hesitant because of the price, my advice is it's worth it.  

[anthrostudentcyn]

I know someone who got their PhD in the Rutgers SSW and is now tenured at a good research university, so that's probably a better deal if the differential is significantly more!

[UrbanMidwest]

On 3/10/2016 at 7:24 PM, G-MSW said:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to start this thread because I haven't really seen much talk about people's experiences with the Rutgers MSW program. I am stuck between these 2 schools, both of which have great programs, but one is MUCH cheaper than the other.

What are your opinions about going to an Ivy League school (& paying for the Ivy League name) for an MSW? Is it worth it to be (in my particular case) about $16,000 more in debt for Columbia than going to my state school of Rutgers with a great program?

If anyone has experience going to school in the city, it would be nice to hear what that's like, especially since I currently go to school in New Jersey.

If anyone currently goes to Rutgers, what is your experience like?

Just for some background info, I am aiming to do the clinical route and would like to be an LCSW eventually.

Thanks so much for any info/opinions/thoughts you may have, this decision is tough and I flip flop back and forth about which program I should choose!

Go to the less expensive program. You're paying for a MSW, not an MBA. The ROI for a sector that pays pathetically poor is not worth insurmountable debt, even if the difference is16K.It would be a different picture if you're talking about an MBA from Rutger vs Columbia. In this case, forget the Ivy name; prestige is just hot air. No one really cares in the social work profession unless you want to do academia or international work (even then it seems negligible). You're getting the same degree once you graduate and the same qualifications once you're licensed. Remember, you're going into debt for a Masters in Social Work. The last time I heard social workers weren't making north of 50K after five years in the field (and that's after two college degrees).

Edited March 30, 2016 by UrbanMidwest

[G-MSW]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and opinions on the subject. After reading through everything, I decided to base my choice on what I felt would be most beneficial to me as a student and future professional. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on financial aid being a huge part of the decision making process, huge debt can be crippling. However, I agree with @The Nerd that my education is the greatest investment I can make and I believe it is worth it. With that being said, I made my decision based solely on my happiness and ultimately what I found to be the best fit after visiting both campuses. Columbia seems to be a fantastic program with great faculty and networking opportunities. I was even able to ask current students if they thought the price was worth their education and they answered honestly that the Ivy League name has opened doors that may not have been opened if it wasn't for the brand. I met lovely prospective students who were all having the same dilemma I was--choosing between 2 amazing programs and everyone was leaning towards Columbia. I have to say I also was at first, however I knew deep down that I could not see myself attending this wonderful institution. I realized I was convincing myself that I should want to go to Columbia because (like everyone around me said) "It's Columbia!" After visiting Rutgers, I knew as I walked around the campus and talked with a current first year student that this was where I wanted to spend the next 2 years getting my MSW. I was excited hearing about the research opportunities as well graduate assistantships available. Not to mention the field placement opportunities for my second year while getting my VAWC certificate. At the end of the day, it seems that the $20,000+ I'll be saving (after an eye opening financial aid session at Columbia that revealed my work study actually couldn't go towards tuition) is just an added bonus on top of going to my preferred program. All of this to say, my advice to anyone making this stressful and difficult decision--do not make your decision based on the opinion of others! Do what is best for YOU because you will be the one attending the program after all. If an Ivy league happens to have the program and campus that is the best fit for you, go for it. Don't let others believing you are making a "foolish" decision stop you or discourage you from attending. I would have made that choice if it had worked out that way for me. People invest in houses and cars all the time, your education will dictate what you do for the rest of your life and in my opinion, is worth every penny. Conversely, if everyone around you feels you should just go to the Ivy League because of the name and prestige but you feel that a state school or not as widely recognized school is the better fit for you, do what you gotta do and screw what anyone else says. Your happiness and education is worth more than the fleeting opinion of others.