fuzzylogician Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Yeah, innovative work is great. But one (or two, or even three) course in cognitive science or computer science isn't going to make you an expert. For truly cross-disciplinary collaborations like you're imagining you'd want to collaborate with experts in those fields. You'd want to learn from them, not just from a textbook. And friendly job market advice from someone who straddles two subfields: that's not always the best way to go. Yes, I apply for jobs in both X and Y. But when there's a job in X, they worry I'm more of a Y. When there's a job in Y, they worry I'm more of an X. It comes up in interviews, although never directly. It's really easiest if you have a very clear specialty within one subfield. Once you have that job, you can do whatever you want. And you can always have collaborations with others, but you don't need to be the expert in everything. For your second qualifying paper, you probably can't study the same topic from two different angle, at least not at any program I know. You need two completely different projects. But hopefully with all the classes you've taken and the papers you've presumably written, there's at least one that can be developed more into a QP. QPs, like coursework (and like the dissertation, in fact), are requirements to get out of the way so you can do your real work -- your research. Don't overthink it, it doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be good enough to allow you to pass. NoirFemme 1
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, fuzzylogician said: Yeah, innovative work is great. But one (or two, or even three) course in cognitive science or computer science isn't going to make you an expert. For truly cross-disciplinary collaborations like you're imagining you'd want to collaborate with experts in those fields. You'd want to learn from them, not just from a textbook. And friendly job market advice from someone who straddles two subfields: that's not always the best way to go. Yes, I apply for jobs in both X and Y. But when there's a job in X, they worry I'm more of a Y. When there's a job in Y, they worry I'm more of an X. It comes up in interviews, although never directly. It's really easiest if you have a very clear specialty within one subfield. Once you have that job, you can do whatever you want. And you can always have collaborations with others, but you don't need to be the expert in everything. For your second qualifying paper, you probably can't study the same topic from two different angle, at least not at any program I know. You need two completely different projects. But hopefully with all the classes you've taken and the papers you've presumably written, there's at least one that can be developed more into a QP. QPs, like coursework (and like the dissertation, in fact), are requirements to get out of the way so you can do your real work -- your research. Don't overthink it, it doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be good enough to allow you to pass. Thanks. The advise about not straddling is really solid. I'll think more of it as I study on. Just curious: many programs are asking students to do the qualifying papers from different subfields now? Or it suffices if they are just two distinct topics but can be within the same subfield? I remember several programs I did research in allow students to continue on one topic and develop them into the dissertation (I maybe remember it wrong...) At first I felt my program is a little peculiar, but they gave the reason that the employers were looking for linguists that have knowledge in more than one area. But now it seems that many programs are doing the same thing? Does this conflict with "clear specialty"? (I guess my topic is specific and board at the same time. It can be approached from several perspectives or even subfields, but it addresses a specific process in language) Edited May 1, 2016 by tajob
ShogunT Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 2 hours ago, tajob said: The first year is for core courses so not many other courses can get in (but I did take 3-4 extra courses/seminars together with the 6 core courses exactly as you said..). We need to take four advanced level ling classes so the middle two years just feel too short to learn all the things I want and fully prepare myself for academia. To me is like this: taking class can help with my research; doing research can help me get a job; but doing TA is only for money and not helpful for my job seeking Well, you want so many things. I also have a feeling that you do not seem to appreciate the TA job that is actually keeping you afloat in grad school. I think I will stop giving advice here and wish you all the best of luck in your academic endeavors.
fuzzylogician Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 33 minutes ago, tajob said: Thanks. The advise about not straddling is really solid. I'll think more of it as I study on. Just curious: many programs are asking students to do the qualifying papers from different subfields now? Or it suffices if they are just two distinct topics but can be within the same subfield? I remember several programs I did research in allow students to continue on one topic and develop them into the dissertation (I maybe remember it wrong...) At first I felt my program is a little peculiar, but they gave the reason that the employers were looking for linguists that have knowledge in more than one area. But now it seems that many programs are doing the same thing? Does this conflict with "clear specialty"? (I guess my topic is specific and board at the same time. It can be approached from several perspectives or even subfields, but it addresses a specific process in language) All the programs I know of want papers on two different topics in two distinct subfields. Some will let you fudge a little if you can convince someone that the topics/fields are distinct enough, some are more strict. But on the books, that's the requirement. Yes, this goes somewhat against the specialization idea, but so does the entire first year, if you want to think of it that way. There is a balancing act between getting a decent training in all the major subfields and specializing in just one. The qualifying paper is there to make sure you do something that's not your narrow interest beyond the first year for at least one topic. It's true that it helps to be specialized to get a job, but you also don't want to be too narrow. At the very least, you want to have worked on at least one topic that's not your dissertation research (assuming here, as is often the case, that your other QP could become a chapter in your dissertation). If you can get a publication or at least a conference presentation out of it, all the better.
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 22 minutes ago, fuzzylogician said: All the programs I know of want papers on two different topics in two distinct subfields. Some will let you fudge a little if you can convince someone that the topics/fields are distinct enough, some are more strict. But on the books, that's the requirement. Yes, this goes somewhat against the specialization idea, but so does the entire first year, if you want to think of it that way. There is a balancing act between getting a decent training in all the major subfields and specializing in just one. The qualifying paper is there to make sure you do something that's not your narrow interest beyond the first year for at least one topic. It's true that it helps to be specialized to get a job, but you also don't want to be too narrow. At the very least, you want to have worked on at least one topic that's not your dissertation research (assuming here, as is often the case, that your other QP could become a chapter in your dissertation). If you can get a publication or at least a conference presentation out of it, all the better. I see. Thanks for the insight! I feel much better now after talking through the whole thread. Thanks for all those who offered their opinions.
GradSchoolTruther Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) OP, you have an entire career ahead of you. Are you taking classes next year, too? Were the 3-4 extra courses on too of your normal courseload? As others have pointed out, you haven't gone about coursework or TAing in an efficient manner. I'm a bit shocked that you are even taking a full slate of classes in your sixth semester. Taking classes distracts from your research at this stage. You need to focus on qualifying exams/papers and then the dissertation. Edited May 1, 2016 by GradSchoolTruther
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, GradSchoolTruther said: OP, you have an entire career ahead of you. Are you taking classes next year, too? Were the 3-4 extra courses on too of your normal courseload? As others have pointed out, you haven't gone about coursework or TAing in an efficient manner. I'm a bit shocked that you are even taking a full slate of classes in your sixth semester. Taking classes distracts from your research at this stage. You need to focus on qualifying exams/papers and then the dissertation. I'm in my 4th semester right now but I get your point.. Frankly I'm taking classes to fulfill course requirements for a minor, thus these many classes. I don't know what's the norm of people spending on research per week. I'm doing 2-3 days of research, 2-3 days of classes, 2 days of teaching per week. Does this sound all right?
Eigen Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 I'm in a different field, so take this with a grain of salt, but that seems like way too much time on classes. You want your classes done as fast as possible, with as little relative work as possible. They're just not that important in grad school. Being focused on classes is an undergraduate mindset you need to get out of. Research isn't something you can do by days- you need to be doing some every day. You our need to change how you look at TAing. Between the tuition and stipend, you're getting paid a lot of money for a really small amount of work. Do it, be happy, and move on. You're spending more time worrying about this and talking to people about this than the likely difference in teaching load.
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 12 minutes ago, Eigen said: I'm in a different field, so take this with a grain of salt, but that seems like way too much time on classes. You want your classes done as fast as possible, with as little relative work as possible. They're just not that important in grad school. Being focused on classes is an undergraduate mindset you need to get out of. Research isn't something you can do by days- you need to be doing some every day. You our need to change how you look at TAing. Between the tuition and stipend, you're getting paid a lot of money for a really small amount of work. Do it, be happy, and move on. You're spending more time worrying about this and talking to people about this than the likely difference in teaching load. We have minimum 3-course requirements with TA. I know a few people of my cohort are also taking 4 classes. I did spend too much time today on this thread. But it made me feel better. Thanks for your comment anyway.
rising_star Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 You know, I've been in programs with a 3 course requirement and even a 4 course requirement for TAs. You know what a lot of people did? They took research hours for 1-2 of those courses to give them more time to focus on their research. Unless they are telling you those courses absolutely must be graduate seminars, you're doing too much, OP, as others have said. I can't imagine trying to take six courses, even a mix of grad and undergrad, at the same time. It's no wonder you feel overworked and resentful of everything. But, you are lying in the bed you make, as the proverbial saying goes. You can and should change things so you can stop being so resentful of your source of income and instead focus on getting what you need out of your grad program so you can move on with your life. Why are you doing a minor? What is the purpose of said minor? You should do a cost-benefit analysis on things like that so you can prioritize appropriately. Eigen 1
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, rising_star said: You know, I've been in programs with a 3 course requirement and even a 4 course requirement for TAs. You know what a lot of people did? They took research hours for 1-2 of those courses to give them more time to focus on their research. Unless they are telling you those courses absolutely must be graduate seminars, you're doing too much, OP, as others have said. I can't imagine trying to take six courses, even a mix of grad and undergrad, at the same time. It's no wonder you feel overworked and resentful of everything. But, you are lying in the bed you make, as the proverbial saying goes. You can and should change things so you can stop being so resentful of your source of income and instead focus on getting what you need out of your grad program so you can move on with your life. Why are you doing a minor? What is the purpose of said minor? You should do a cost-benefit analysis on things like that so you can prioritize appropriately. I might doing slightly more than my peers (I didn't go as far as 6.. It's 4-5 and some auditing if I found the subject useful for my research. But I guess it's not a big difference), but it's not uncommon for our students to take 3-4 real classes and get a minor (mine will be a CS minor, if I finished the coursework. It will help to strengthen my computational profile)... Also, I realized that 20h TA may not be a big deal if I cut off some courses. That's what I might be doing next year to save my time for research (now we're talking about this, I'm surprised that last time I wrote to my chair saying I'm taking 4 courses, she did not rebut me...). But again it's not a problem I invented. A few of other students also have this problem and they are not less "resentful" than me, although not everyone of them are taking so many classes. I guess the most immediate environment affects you the most: when others are having less TA work while taking many classes and earning a minor too, you can't help but thinking why it's only me (well not only me) that suffer the unfairness. Edited May 1, 2016 by tajob
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) It's a real anxiety among the students not being able to find a job when graduated. It's a field that, as many other fields, has very few open positions, and does not have many relevant job outside of academia. Our program is not the best, but it's good enough. Still many students are trying to not only produce the best research, but also do everything we can to make ourselves more competitive. People in their third or fourth year are still taking Python to learn programming knowledge. I'm not sure now it's a problem of the field, our program or myself. But I'll be thinking about what I want from the graduate education. Edited May 1, 2016 by tajob
GradSchoolTruther Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Drop the mindset that courses will make you more competitive. You take the courses you need, and learn other skills on the side. Taking 4-5 extra courses. plus auditing a couple of others, is insane. What does your advisor have to say about this?
tajob Posted May 1, 2016 Author Posted May 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, GradSchoolTruther said: Drop the mindset that courses will make you more competitive. You take the courses you need, and learn other skills on the side. Taking 4-5 extra courses. plus auditing a couple of others, is insane. What does your advisor have to say about this? My advisor know the classes I'm taking but didn't say much. He did encourage me not to take over 4 and learn stat/programming by myself (I did).
xolo Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 16 minutes ago, GradSchoolTruther said: What does your advisor have to say about this? 2 minutes ago, tajob said: My advisor know the classes I'm taking but didn't say much. He did encourage me not to take over 4 and learn stat/programming by myself (I did). This has been an interesting thread. My advisor has told me on occasions: "Don't take that class" or "that won't count/help you" and pretty much bluntly revoked my privileges. She also super helps me and I am lucky she is my advisor. But allowing 4 classes? I don't know your program, but in my program you can finish your coursework timely with 2 classes per quarter. I'm already starting to sweat the quals and academic articles required and that's a year off. If 4 classes is the norm and teaching on top of that, that would be extremely stressful.
TakeruK Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 After reading the follow-up responses and getting more details, I agree with the other posters that you are taking on too many things at once and this is likely the biggest contributor to the reason why you feel very overworked. You already got a lot of good advice from other experienced people! So, I'll try to add something new: One of the most important things you have to learn as a graduate student is when to say no. Not just saying "no" to other people making demands on your time, but when you say no to yourself. Remember, you cannot do everything. There is always more courses you can take, more minors/accreditations to attain, more research to do, more teaching, more everything. You cannot do it all. You are allowed to let yourself not do everything. Trying to do a little bit of everything will hurt you more in the long run than being very specialized at a smaller group of things. The point of a PhD is to become a specialist in one set of skills and knowledge!
tajob Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, TakeruK said: After reading the follow-up responses and getting more details, I agree with the other posters that you are taking on too many things at once and this is likely the biggest contributor to the reason why you feel very overworked. You already got a lot of good advice from other experienced people! So, I'll try to add something new: One of the most important things you have to learn as a graduate student is when to say no. Not just saying "no" to other people making demands on your time, but when you say no to yourself. Remember, you cannot do everything. There is always more courses you can take, more minors/accreditations to attain, more research to do, more teaching, more everything. You cannot do it all. You are allowed to let yourself not do everything. Trying to do a little bit of everything will hurt you more in the long run than being very specialized at a smaller group of things. The point of a PhD is to become a specialist in one set of skills and knowledge! Thanks. But I have to admit that I'm a bit frustrated about "graduate students should concentrate on one thing". I always know it's true but it's just easy to forget it with all the other overwhelming feelings. I'm sure most people who want to be in academia share with me the same enthusiasm of pursuing knowledge. It's hard to suppress the desire to know more and learn more; even harder is to suppress the anxiety of knowing that even people much more brilliant and hard-working than me may not find a job when graduate... But I'll gradually figure out how to deal with that. Edited May 2, 2016 by tajob
GradSchoolTruther Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I would suggest utilizing the student counseling services on your campus and learn how address your interests and struggles in a constructive manner. Edited May 2, 2016 by GradSchoolTruther
TakeruK Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 18 minutes ago, tajob said: even harder is to suppress the anxiety of knowing that even people much more brilliant and hard-working than me may not find a job when graduate... But I'll gradually figure out how to deal with that. I understand how you are feeling. I don't want to generalize too much, but grad school is made up of people who are already some of the best in their undergraduate classes. So, you are taking a big group of people who are used to doing well and achieving a lot and putting them all together. When you are in this situation, if you are seeing other people do better than you, it's easy to think that you are somehow falling behind or not doing enough. But don't forget about the big picture. You have already achieved a lot and you are currently learning a ton and achieving a lot more too! Don't be compare yourself to others. I find it useful for me to track my own accomplishments and focus on what I am doing for myself because I want to, not because someone else is doing X and I'm afraid they will be better than me. I think I am pretty good at handling these feelings when they crop up now because I've been a grad student for awhile. But they still crop up from time to time. For example, last month, I was pretty bummed that I didn't get awarded a talk for an upcoming important conference in my field. A friend and classmate of mine did though and I was very happy for them. But for awhile, I felt like I was messing up my career and wondering what I was doing wrong that I didn't achieve this thing (other crappy stuff was happening to my research at that time too). I allowed myself to be disappointed and feel bad/sorry for myself for a day and then reminded myself that there are factors outside of my control, I am still good at what I'm doing, and I shouldn't be comparing myself to others. To help me do this, I keep a list of things that I'm good at and accomplishments I've made in the past. Sometimes on days where I feel like I am a total screwup, going through this list helps me reaffirm to myself that I am capable of this. Grad school will have some moments where it will suck but others where it will be awesome. And then a few weeks after the disappointing moment, I got notice that I will be giving a talk on my research at a different conference coming up! Sorry that I am rambling, but my point is that your anxiety that everyone will be better than you is common and I bet most of your classmates might feel the same way about you. I think it's really important to learn to not compete with yourself by comparing yourself to other people (it's part of learning to say no to yourself that I wrote about earlier). It means making peace with the fact that you cannot achieve everything and if you try to do everything, you might end up doing poorly at everything instead of being good at a few things that are actually important to you. As GradSchoolTruther suggested, the school counseling center is an excellent resource. They are here for students, so make use of it. I find that they are great for helping you process your thoughts and come up with solutions that work for you. They are not only for severe mental and emotional distress (although they are good for that too!). Going to see a counselor does not necessarily mean that you have a problem or that there is something wrong with you. They are a resource that is meant for us to use when we need it! xolo 1
MathCat Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 This thread has kind of changed direction, but I just want to say that I agree with @TakeruK: if there is a group of students only being assigned the heavier workload TA positions, that is a problem. Sure, it's not beyond the contracted amount, and they obviously can't have somebody who doesn't know that language TAing that class. But if those who speak other languages are always given heavier TA loads than those who don't, that's truly not fair.
tajob Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, TakeruK said: I understand how you are feeling. I don't want to generalize too much, but grad school is made up of people who are already some of the best in their undergraduate classes. So, you are taking a big group of people who are used to doing well and achieving a lot and putting them all together. When you are in this situation, if you are seeing other people do better than you, it's easy to think that you are somehow falling behind or not doing enough. But don't forget about the big picture. You have already achieved a lot and you are currently learning a ton and achieving a lot more too! Don't be compare yourself to others. I find it useful for me to track my own accomplishments and focus on what I am doing for myself because I want to, not because someone else is doing X and I'm afraid they will be better than me. I think I am pretty good at handling these feelings when they crop up now because I've been a grad student for awhile. But they still crop up from time to time. For example, last month, I was pretty bummed that I didn't get awarded a talk for an upcoming important conference in my field. A friend and classmate of mine did though and I was very happy for them. But for awhile, I felt like I was messing up my career and wondering what I was doing wrong that I didn't achieve this thing (other crappy stuff was happening to my research at that time too). I allowed myself to be disappointed and feel bad/sorry for myself for a day and then reminded myself that there are factors outside of my control, I am still good at what I'm doing, and I shouldn't be comparing myself to others. To help me do this, I keep a list of things that I'm good at and accomplishments I've made in the past. Sometimes on days where I feel like I am a total screwup, going through this list helps me reaffirm to myself that I am capable of this. Grad school will have some moments where it will suck but others where it will be awesome. And then a few weeks after the disappointing moment, I got notice that I will be giving a talk on my research at a different conference coming up! Sorry that I am rambling, but my point is that your anxiety that everyone will be better than you is common and I bet most of your classmates might feel the same way about you. I think it's really important to learn to not compete with yourself by comparing yourself to other people (it's part of learning to say no to yourself that I wrote about earlier). It means making peace with the fact that you cannot achieve everything and if you try to do everything, you might end up doing poorly at everything instead of being good at a few things that are actually important to you. As GradSchoolTruther suggested, the school counseling center is an excellent resource. They are here for students, so make use of it. I find that they are great for helping you process your thoughts and come up with solutions that work for you. They are not only for severe mental and emotional distress (although they are good for that too!). Going to see a counselor does not necessarily mean that you have a problem or that there is something wrong with you. They are a resource that is meant for us to use when we need it! Thanks for sharing your experience. I too have ups and downs. These two days may be the downs (maybe because of the defense coming in two weeks ) but most of time I'm enjoying the process. I've been to school counseling before. They helped me walk through a period when I was really low. I feel ok now, but I'll keep in mind they could be a source of help. I think I'll talk to my colleagues and advisors first. Edited May 2, 2016 by tajob TakeruK 1
tajob Posted May 2, 2016 Author Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) 57 minutes ago, MathCat said: This thread has kind of changed direction, but I just want to say that I agree with @TakeruK: if there is a group of students only being assigned the heavier workload TA positions, that is a problem. Sure, it's not beyond the contracted amount, and they obviously can't have somebody who doesn't know that language TAing that class. But if those who speak other languages are always given heavier TA loads than those who don't, that's truly not fair. Thanks for your understanding. There might be a way out for this time. I'm trying to convince the language department to give me a class that I taught. The chance is small but hope there will be good news. Finger crossed. Edited May 2, 2016 by tajob
ExponentialDecay Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) On 5/2/2016 at 2:29 AM, tajob said: Thanks. But I have to admit that I'm a bit frustrated about "graduate students should concentrate on one thing". I always know it's true but it's just easy to forget it with all the other overwhelming feelings. I'm sure most people who want to be in academia share with me the same enthusiasm of pursuing knowledge. It's hard to suppress the desire to know more and learn more; even harder is to suppress the anxiety of knowing that even people much more brilliant and hard-working than me may not find a job when graduate... But I'll gradually figure out how to deal with that. Oh man. Where is your advisor in all this? Do they know about your philosophy on grad school/academia? You need to talk to them (or some other senior person you trust) about your feelings, because you're going about this all wrong. Yes, many people in academia share your enthusiasm for pursuing knowledge. So do many butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers. But you are not paid to consume knowledge; you are paid to produce knowledge. You have to concentrate on one thing not because it is a mindset foisted on you by evil neoliberal oppressive academia, but because if you work in a niche, you will be able to learn all or almost all there is to know about that niche, and you will be more efficient at producing knowledge other people will find useful. That's what gets you hired into an academic job - not how many classes you take, or how many irrelevant factoids you know. You are not a student; you are a future professional researcher. Grad school isn't a free opportunity for you to chill out and pursue your personal hobbies in CS or statistics - it is borrowed time where you are free of practical obligations such as having a full-time job or finding a way to work with experts in your field and have access to a scholarly library, which you are supposed to use to show the professional community that you can produce competent research and can be considered for a similar, more permanent, and better paid job doing what you have proved you do best. Your research and teaching are the only things that matter. Teaching, because that's what pays your bills, and that's what's likely to pay your bills in the future barring a major, major stroke of luck. Research, because that is what you are here to do. They are the two pillars that support your career. If you enjoy pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge and taking classes in a variety of subjects for the hell of it, but don't enjoy teaching and aren't dedicated to your research, you should not have pursued academia. Your advisor needs to know about this because I think you need help figuring out your priorities right now. It may seem counterintuitive, but the wrong priorities, the wrong attitude, and a lack of understanding of how this system functions are probably (can't say definitely because I don't have generalizable evidence) the leading cause of brilliant people not getting academic jobs. Edited May 3, 2016 by ExponentialDecay St Andrews Lynx, TakeruK, hippyscientist and 2 others 5
ExponentialDecay Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 On 5/2/2016 at 4:49 AM, MathCat said: This thread has kind of changed direction, but I just want to say that I agree with @TakeruK: if there is a group of students only being assigned the heavier workload TA positions, that is a problem. Sure, it's not beyond the contracted amount, and they obviously can't have somebody who doesn't know that language TAing that class. But if those who speak other languages are always given heavier TA loads than those who don't, that's truly not fair. OP doesn't explain how or why teaching a language indicates a heavier TA load than teaching an intro class, so I am inclined to agree with @fuzzylogician that it may be partially a perception problem fueled by a prejudice that language classes are less prestigious than intro classes. To me personally, it doesn't make very much sense. It's not like one group teaches a blow-off elective with multiple choice computer-graded exams, and the other group teaches 300-level 2 hour long seminars. They're both teaching standardized intro-level courses with plenty of existing class material. I think there may be a sample bias, because the second group is all international students, who may have more trouble adjusting to the American teaching system than domestic students, and what they perceive as a heavier load is actually a comparable load exacerbated by the difficulties of adjusting to a new country, a new university system, and new norms/expectations? Eigen and ShogunT 2
fuzzylogician Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 5 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said: OP doesn't explain how or why teaching a language indicates a heavier TA load than teaching an intro class, so I am inclined to agree with @fuzzylogician that it may be partially a perception problem fueled by a prejudice that language classes are less prestigious than intro classes. To me personally, it doesn't make very much sense. It's not like one group teaches a blow-off elective with multiple choice computer-graded exams, and the other group teaches 300-level 2 hour long seminars. They're both teaching standardized intro-level courses with plenty of existing class material. I think there may be a sample bias, because the second group is all international students, who may have more trouble adjusting to the American teaching system than domestic students, and what they perceive as a heavier load is actually a comparable load exacerbated by the difficulties of adjusting to a new country, a new university system, and new norms/expectations? No, while I do think at least a part of this is a perception problem, because the department is actually creating a two-tiered system in how it treats its students -- I do believe that language teaching is more work than TAing an intro class (although, it also depends on how many sections of the intro class a TA is assigned to and how many students are in the section, to assess how much grading they do). Language teaching is usually daily, involves multiple sections, and daily assignment grading, plus prep. It would be more than the usual intro to ling in-class time, prep, and grading, in my opinion. As I wrote above, it's hard to know how much more, some of it may be within the margin of error. It is probably noticeably more than anyone who gets assigned to TA more advanced ling class. The more advanced, the less prep and grading for a TA, usually. If English speakers get those better classes at least once in a while, but speakers of some languages always get the more work-heavy classes, that is a problem (assuming here the same workload for intro courses, which may or may not be justified). And yes, I also think that spending time on tasks completely unrelated to your coursework and research for 20 hours a week ( =language teaching) can be seen as less attractive than doing the ling courses, even though in reality again the ling TAing isn't actually really related to anyone's coursework or research. However, at the very least it'd be within the linguistics department and put TAs in contact with linguistics professors and students, while language teaching would take a TA to a completely unrelated department. And, again, I think the biggest problem is that the department is systematically treating some students unlike some others, and that just can't be good, even though I completely understand why it's happening. knp 1
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