The next iteration of the unpaid internship: the unpaid postdoc.

[dr. t]

I just got this email:

 

Fordham Medieval Fellows enjoy the benefits of post-graduate research affiliation with Fordham University and its Center for Medieval Studies during one or two semesters of research in the New York City area.  The appointment carries no stipend, but Fellow status includes: an office with computer and printer, library privileges and a carrel, a research-oriented e-mail account, use of the gym at faculty rates, participation in all seminars and functions in Medieval Studies, photocopy privileges, and program stationery.

 

Medieval Fellows will be expected to offer one lecture in his or her area of specialization when in residence and to abide by the regulations of those University facilities that s/he will utilize. Fellows will be invited to participate fully in the Center’s activities, including workshops, service as judges in graduate prize competitions, and the annual Medieval Studies Conference.

 

Excuse me, I'm going to be besides myself with rage for a bit.

[Oshawott]

After years of working near or below the poverty line as a graduate student, do they really expect anyone to do this? If these unpaid post-docs actually become a thing in my field within the next few years, then that will answer my "academia or industry?" question.

[fuzzylogician]

Wow. Just, wow. 

Also, no. No way, no how. Not only is there no stipend, they actually expect you to teach a course! It's sad that they are advertising this, and it's sad that some people will surely be desperate enough to actually do it. 

[ShogunT]

1 hour ago, telkanuru said:

a research-oriented e-mail account, use of the gym at faculty rates

They can keep the research-oriented email account. I will take the gym membership.

Also seems to me that this is an affiliation status. The post-doc is supposed to be paid by the other (main) source of funding already.

Edited May 2, 2016 by ShogunT

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, fuzzylogician said:

Wow. Just, wow. 

Also, no. No way, no how. Not only is there no stipend, they actually expect you to teach a course! It's sad that they are advertising this, and it's sad that some people will surely be desperate enough to actually do it. 

I think they actually mean present like a 1-hr lecture, but it's ambiguous.

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, ShogunT said:

The post-doc is supposed to be paid by the other (main) source of funding already.

Unaffiliated funding sources are not exactly common in the humanities, and were a medievalist to obtain one, they would use it to be near their archive in Europe.

[fuzzylogician]

1 hour ago, ShogunT said:

They can keep the research-oriented email account. I will take the gym membership.

Also seems to me that this is an affiliation status. The post-doc is supposed to be paid by the other (main) source of funding already.

Oh, I see. That makes it... slightly better? Still terrible. 

[Eigen]

Definitely a research affiliation, but still absurd. 

I feel the same way about the postdocs I see paying less than an average grad school stipend (saw one requiring a PhD plus 2-5 years of industry experience paying 18k in New York City recently. 

[Quantum Buckyball]

1 hour ago, Eigen said:

Definitely a research affiliation, but still absurd. 

I feel the same way about the postdocs I see paying less than an average grad school stipend (saw one requiring a PhD plus 2-5 years of industry experience paying 18k in New York City recently. 

Oh hell to the no

Told my PI I ain't playing this BS you-can't-win-unless-you-play game no more, and people-don't-go-into-science-for-money BS. Ain't gonna do a postdoc 

I am actually doing pretty well in grad school in term of # of pubs/year and am graduating on time. However, the job outlook for scientists in general is surprisingly depressing, most jobs in both academia AND industry are short-term 1-2 yr long contract jobs and you cannot build a career out of it. Should have gone into medical field 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Quantum Buckyball

[spectastic]

does the gym have a bed and a kitchen?

[shadowclaw]

I think everyone who said they'd take the gym membership missed that it's offered at faculty rates, which might be a good deal I guess, but you'd think it would be free.

[TakeruK]

1 hour ago, shadowclaw said:

I think everyone who said they'd take the gym membership missed that it's offered at faculty rates, which might be a good deal I guess, but you'd think it would be free.

I laughed out loud when I read "at faculty rates". Along with all of the other requirements/obligations that are being marketed as benefits!

Sidenote: The faculty rate for the gym at my school is actually one of the most expensive rates! The fee structure is basically based on income---students then postdocs, then staff, then faculty, and finally community members that aren't affiliated with the school.

[spunky]

plz! don't forget the computer AND printer perk people, that should seal the deal!

 

(plot twist: you need to pay for your own ink! :D)

Edited May 3, 2016 by spunky

[Neist]

12 hours ago, TakeruK said:

I laughed out loud when I read "at faculty rates". Along with all of the other requirements/obligations that are being marketed as benefits!

Sidenote: The faculty rate for the gym at my school is actually one of the most expensive rates! The fee structure is basically based on income---students then postdocs, then staff, then faculty, and finally community members that aren't affiliated with the school.

It's the same here. The rates for faculty/staff at the university I work for are probably only slightly lower than membership fees for a decent, cheap gym.

[TakeruK]

38 minutes ago, spunky said:

plz! don't forget the computer AND printer perk people, that should seal the deal!

 

(plot twist: you need to pay for your own ink! :D)

Pretty cool, but I'd be most excited for that sweet sweet stationary.

[Neist]

5 minutes ago, TakeruK said:

Pretty cool, but I'd be most excited for that sweet sweet stationary.

Pfft. I'm all about the carrel. The carrel. 

I've only dreamed of my own carrel in champagne wishes and caviar dreams.

[spectastic]

guys, I found the guy that previously held this position. 

 

[ExponentialDecay]

Oh fuck, the gym ain't even free??? I get that Fordham isn't the best and brightest, but goddamn, this is some University of Phoenix shit.

[Eigen]

You'd be surprised how many people just want library access and an affiliation when applying for positions.

[heliogabalus]

The only way this could be worse would be if the stationary were actually the student essays you had to judge.

[juilletmercredi]

My sense, actually, is that this is not actually a postdoctoral fellowship in the traditional sense of the word but is an opportunity for doctoral degree holders who want to spend a year in New York - but draw salary from other sources - to do so. I think the real target is mid-career and senior professors who have a sabbatical or research leave they can use to come live in New York for a year, and this is an opportunity for them to have the privileges the Fellows program offers free of charge to them. But then I think some recent PhDs are probably using the program as a postdoc for whatever reason (their spouse is in the city for X reason and they need an affiliation; they really want to stick around in New York while they go on the market another year; they're geographically bound; they're supported by family and don't need a salary; etc.)

This is the part of the ad that made me think this:

Announcements of the year's awards are in August; generally at least one but no more than three awards are made in any one academic year from a pool of applicants that numbers from three to seven each year. The Fellows come from a wide variety of disciplines and stages in their academic careers. Several of the Fellows have been recent PhD recipients from Fordham and other universities, one has been a full professor who wished to spend her sabbatical in New York City, while others have been mid-career scholars or academics from abroad. The Medieval Fellows program has drawn a wide range of post-doctoral scholars to Fordham for terms lasting from four months in the Fall (F) or Spring (S) semester, to the entire year (Y).

I do notice, however, that the privileges include a library carrel but no office. The notable omission of an office is making me think that while this may have originally been intended to attract mid-to-late career scholars on sabbatical, the university can't actually afford them, and what this appointment actually attracts is one of the following:

1) Wealthy mid-to-late career professors who really just want to spend a year in New York, and are being paid by someone else OR are being supported by a spouse or partner who is also sabbaticaling in New York

2) Scholars visiting from abroad who also are being paid by someone else and also just want to spend a year in New York

3) Unfortunate, wealthy, or desperate early career professionals who are treating this as a postdoc. (The program stationery might have been thrown in to appeal to them...letterhead is useful on the market.)

Edited May 12, 2016 by juilletmercredi