DBear Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Hi guys, This may seem like a no-brainer, if you've been invited and they're covering pretty much all of the costs, why not? Well, logistically, I'm finding it a bit of a headache to visit the one school I currently have an open invitation to. I'm pretty sure I want to go there, and I'm really not picky about they type of city or not-city I live in, so I was thinking maybe I'll pass on the visit. If I have multiple schools I'm trying to choose between, I think I'd be willing to bear the headache of planning out the trips. But if you already are pretty sure you want to go to a school, is there any reason to visit if it's really out of your way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenEyedTrombonist Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Why is it a headache? Have you visited the school before? I think it would still be good to do something to give you a better feel for the social culture of the program. If you can't work out a visit, can you ask to talk to grad students currently in the program? It won't be as good as visiting in person, but it might help you figure out some of what to expect on that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBear Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 @GreenEyedTrombonist very good points. It's a headache for me because I'm currently in the U.S. for a month to help out a friend and I'd need to extend my trip in order to attend the weekend which would mean figuring out additional lodging and paying penalties to change the flight back. Plus, now that I know I'll be moving to the U.S. to attend school and probably won't have enough money to travel home regularly, I am eager to return home and spend as much time with my family as I can, while I can. So I'd prefer not to extend my visit as I'm already scheduled to spend an entire month here. I've already been in touch with a current student and spoken with 2 out of 4 faculty members in my given concentration for nearly an hour each, so I'm pretty sold on the school. My impression about these events was that they were more geared to help students make their decisions... And I feel like I'm okay on that front. I'm also pretty sure that if need be, I can talk to additional students or have more Skype talks with the faculty again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffeineCardigan Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The international struggle. I don't know if this is feasible or not, but you could maybe try letting the school know you'd like to visit but have to return to Seoul on X day and ask if they'd be willing to let you visit on an earlier date. They might say no, but they might say yes and then you could get to experience the school culture etc. and not have to change your flight. That is if you want to go and can change your current US plans to allow it to happen... victoriaaa and rising_star 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeruK Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 My opinion is to visit. There was one school that I thought was great on paper and in pre-visit conversations that turned out very different when I got there. I understand the extra hassle of changing your plans, but this is a 5+ year commitment to a place! It's worth a little bit of extra rescheduling. However, you don't need to extend your stay! As @CaffeineCardigan suggested, you should ask the school if you can visit early. Explain to them that you are already in the US for a month on X dates and whether it would be okay to visit during those dates instead. It would save the school a ton of money because they just have to fly you from whereever you are to wherever they are! Or, you might even be able to change your departing US flight to leave from their city and they could pay the penalty fee plus the one-way flight from where-ever you are now and where-ever they are. Give them both options (the second one may be cheaper) if both are okay for you. But if this doesn't work out and you still feel confident in your decision, then it will probably be okay to not visit. I personally still feel like a few days of travel is worth it before a 5+ year commitment though. There is a lot about a department you can only get when there in person! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 All I can say is that my pre- and post-visit school rankings are not at all alike. You may discover that you get along more with POI A than POI B, and that the students seem more (un)happy at place X than Y, or you like the city more, or the stipend/cost of living makes it hard to get by in place X than Y. I came in thinking I pretty much knew where I wanted to go, and ended up having very different opinions by the end of my visit(s)*. You also get to meet your potential advisors at all of these places, and if you do it right, they'll have a favorable memory of you that, believe it or not, may actually be helpful 5-6 years from now when you're looking for jobs and/or postdocs. If you can swing it, I can't say enough how important I think it is to go. * I did a bunch of these in a row over a period of two weeks, since I was coming from abroad. I went to 4 places and canceled a 5th because I was exhausted by the end and I had pretty much made up my mind by then. But it was totally worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBear Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 You guys are all so persuasive..!! I've been spending the morning trying to call the airline to confirm I can indeed change my flight without having to pay an arm and a leg. I'm a bit sad that I turned down one school already without visiting, after what @TakeruK and @fuzzylogician (I so owe you guys after this entire cycle) but I really wasn't feeling that program, so I'll try not to dwell on it. That both of you had changes in your rankings says a lot about visits - I mean, I'm sure the pre-visit rankings were made VERY carefully and I'm sure you were pretty confident about them (as I thought I was) so the visit shifting all that .. got it. I'll go. @CaffeineCardigan Those are good ideas - I unfortunately won't be able to change my Feb schedule - so I'll make March work. I should be grateful, if I was back home, a lot of the visits would be physically impossible since the schools I've been invited to thus far will not cover int'l flights, or will only cover them partially so it is a nice coincidence that I happened to be in the U.S. around this time of the year (completely didn't plan this at all). Thanks again everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 19 minutes ago, DBear said: I'm a bit sad that I turned down one school already without visiting, after what @TakeruK and @fuzzylogician (I so owe you guys after this entire cycle) but I really wasn't feeling that program, so I'll try not to dwell on it. I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like you have several good choices. And you're welcome -- just pay it forward! For what it's worth, I came from Europe, started from the West Coast, and made my way back east. In some cases I couldn't attend the official open house because that didn't work with my schedule, but that was never a problem. And visits can be short, mine were 1-2 days each with some travel/down time in between. I would usually know within the first few minutes of talking to a person if we got along or not, and that is absolutely not something I could have predicted. In some cases, I found out I got along great with people who weren't even on my radar (including, as it turns out, the person who became my dissertation committee chair!). You also learn a whole lot from seeing how students interact with one another and with faculty, and also from how they talk about their program. In one case, I even learned that a POI was trying to leave, although no one would have ever put that in writing anywhere, so that was good to know. You just get so much more information than what you could get online and talking to random people who may be in the know, and trust me, I read everything there was to read before going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C is for Caps Locks Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Traveling can be a pain, but I think as others have said it's pretty vital to get an in-person feel for what a program and your POI (as well as their lab) is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeruK Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Echoing fuzzy, just pay it forward! Yeah, I had like spreadsheets and stuff to compare schools! The biggest / most important thing that changed my rankings was seeing the department culture. It's one thing to talk on Skype / email a few select students, but experiencing the atmosphere is another thing. Another factor was learning about future directions for the department from different perspectives. I felt that I didn't get the full picture from talking to my POI and their group but it was nice to have a one-on-one with people like the department head and other senior people. Helpful to be able to ask questions about their future hiring plans etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBear Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 hahaha, and I thought I was special for having a super elaborate spreadsheet! @TakeruK, thanks for the add-on, I'll keep my eyes peeled for that. @fuzzylogician WOAH. Okay. I won't whine about trying to figure out one flight change + 1, maybe 2 visits that are at least a couple of weeks apart. That is hardcore. Lucky for me, turns out that I won't have to pay any penalties to change my return flight as long as I leave in March. So seems like the airline gods are telling me to go to the visit as well! (P.S. @fuzzylogician - been super curious - is that really your cat?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, DBear said: @fuzzylogician WOAH. Okay. I won't whine about trying to figure out one flight change + 1, maybe 2 visits that are at least a couple of weeks apart. That is hardcore. Lucky for me, turns out that I won't have to pay any penalties to change my return flight as long as I leave in March. So seems like the airline gods are telling me to go to the visit as well! (P.S. @fuzzylogician - been super curious - is that really your cat?) Yeah, well, I don't know that I would recommend that kind of travel to anyone, it was so exhausting that I actually cancelled my 5th visit (also, declined some interviews) because I just needed a day off (and I was pretty sure I was going to accept another offer by then). It was a school a couple of hours away from NYC and I ended up getting invited to a faculty member's house who lived in the city. She was incredibly gracious and I am still appreciative of what I think was a very friendly response to my fairly awkward "I am just too tired to go out there, sorry!". But I was most definitely not going to go to the States twice, I was already missing work and school for the one visit, and it'd be too expensive, too. Totally worth it, though. The cat is a random cat I found online oh so many years ago when I created this profile. It's been with me for close to a decade now, so in a sense I feel like it's really mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBear Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 @fuzzylogician Well, I think at this point, it is YOUR cat! If I ever see him randomly on the internets, I'll think, that's Fuzzylogician's cat! I think the whole visit/ in person interview stage (for fields that have these) is really difficult for international students. The time it takes to get out here, and if you have a few days or a even a week between events, that's money out of your pocket for lodging. And then there are the schools that can't cover international travel. I know that being in the U.S. doesn't make it perfectly convenient for everyone since people have jobs, work, and other obligations, but I really wish that it was just a little easier to plan... Like I don't know where I'll stay between my existing travel plans and the week or so before the visit. Then, if I end up visiting another school toward the second half of the month, I don't know where I'll stay till then. But still, I'm glad I don't have to plan that many trips - I'm amazed you got through that many before losing steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzylogician Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 59 minutes ago, DBear said: I'm amazed you got through that many before losing steam. Heh, I don't know what would ever make you think that I did not lose steam... But there was no way I was doing that trip twice. (And yes, being international is hard, for a variety of reasons. And one never realizes the privileges one has, until (and sometimes despite) it is pointed out them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 You should think what the visit does for you. What new information will it contribute to your decision making? What are you willing to learn? I didn't attend my visits because of logistics (it was impossible for me to leave work at that time) and it turned out to be OK. DBear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I just want to third what fuzzylogician and TakeruK said about visiting. After visiting, I found that a program that was my top choice was no longer a top choice, that some programs that seemed great on paper would've been a bad choice for me personally, and that a place I thought I wouldn't like I actually really did. I actually planned the completion of my MA thesis and its defense around being able to do program visits, which ultimately meant that I was traveling a bunch while finishing revisions on my thesis. If you can find a way to swing a visit, definitely do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Snob Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) @DBear I understand this "international struggle". Although I'm a passionate globetrotter, I genuinely hate flying. 18+ hrs flight is such a pain, but I'll go for the visit anyway. I have commitment issues, so I need to make sure that I can work well with the POIs. One of the programs partially pays for my trip, but since all campuses I want to visit are only 2-3 hours drive away from one another I feel that I should at least try to picture myself living in the city/town. I'm lucky to have friends/relatives in the city who can host me. Since my travel plans are tied, I will miss one program's open house day, but I emailed the graduate assistant and asked if it is possible to visit while I'm there. She is very welcoming, and she also advised to visit on a certain day of the week when most graduate students and faculty members are present. I was actually thinking about applying for a Canadian visa (ugh! I also hate applying for visas...) since I'd love to visit UBC, but I then think it won't be a wise decision, financially Edited February 9, 2017 by Coffee Snob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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