History of Art MA/PhD 2008

[the17thscream]

travelingartmuse, what classes did you take at Columbia and when?

[travelingartmuse]

17thscream - I took an Islamic Art course with Kishwar Rizvi (who is now at Yale) and a Gothic Sculpture class with Stephen Murray (who is a wonderful Brit, but also retiring....).

[travelingartmuse]

Renaissance08 - Can I ask who you wanted to work with at Princeton and did you go there to meet him/her?

[the17thscream]

travelingartmuse--

I've heard great things about Rizvi, and I was in Murray's class on medieval cathedrals. He's a great man with a fabulous accent! Only problem was that the class was right after lunch, so when the lights are turned off and you're listening to Murray's ridiculously soothing accent, it's hard not to drift off at least a little (I always had to have a huge cup of coffee within arms reach for that class)...

[travelingartmuse]

17th scream - What are the other three schools that you are waiting to here from?

[the17thscream]

travelingartmuse, I'm still waiting on Harvard, UPenn, and UChicago...I'm not really holding my breath, particularly since all schools have already sent out rejections/acceptances, I think. My ego is a little bruised at the fact that I haven't gotten into any ivies whilst coming from an ivy, but I also recognize that as elitist bullshit. I'm confident that I'll end up whereever I need to be.

[Renaissance08]

travelingartmuse-

I did visit Princeton. I met with Profs Heuer, Brown, and Pinto. Prof Brown, closest to my own interests but not a great match, told me before I set up the appointment that she wasn't accepting new students (she'll be teaching only part time for the next two years then retiring), so she wasn't sure it'd be worth my while to come. I decided to go anyway, and while there she told me that the search for her replacement wouldn't start for a while, so anyone interested in Italian Renaissance painting, sculpture would have to face this uncertainty regarding faculty and advisor. I realized she was basically telling me to not apply, but immediately afterwards I had a great time talking to Prof Pinto (Italian Renaissance architecture), and he encouraged me to apply despite the uncertainties... and I had such a great impression of the school and the program overall (from talking to Prof Pinto, Prof Heuer, though Prof Brown seemed a little aloof and cold), and also staff and a student, I decided to apply, even though I knew I was pretty much throwing away that application fee. I was only planning to apply to 4 schools, which seemed like too few, so I didn't want to limit my chances even more.

Remind me, what's your field?

[emusinfrance]

Hey travelingartmuse, did you apply to Bard because of said curator? (I'm pretty sure I know who/where you are referring to.) Were you into dec. arts previously?

I'm wondering if you have any observations on Bard in the NYC museum landscape (at Museum X, if you will). I did meet an arms and armor guy, but I'm not sure outside of that.

[travelingartmuse]

Renaissance08 & emusinfrance - Thank you. Your honesty answers my my uncertainty. And I am now more convinced that I will be getting that rejection tomorrow from Princeton, if not a second as well from NYU. I think I've said it before so sorry for the redundancy, but my interest and background is primarily Medieval/Renaissance Italian Art and Architecture and cross cultural exchange, specifically Islamic and in particular, in relation to Venice. I had feared that about Brown. It seems to be the theme for me this year and the previous other two yrs that I have gone thru this excruciatingly painful process. Columbia - Rosand (retiring), NYU - Alexander (most likely retiring in the next 4 yrs) he was the advisor to my MA advisor and never responded to my multiple e-mails to meet), Princeton - Brown (now retiring), Yale - Dunlap, and Bard. I didn't meet with Pinto and he sounds great, but Brown most closely relates almost to the tee with my area. Also due to Princeton having two Islamacists, I thought it would be a good fit.

emusinfrance - Hmmm...your message is somewhat cryptic and from my interest you can easily figure out where I work and with whom I've worked with...yes? You can PM me if you want to discuss my take on the Museum X and Bard. My interest in Bard and the decorative arts relates to my topic. Because my topic is broad to a degree, I can encompass the so called high arts, architecture and decorative arts, thus my interest in Bard. Said Curator who is also a Prof at Bard is in an adjunct position and would not be my advisor there should I have gotten accepted. But that point is mute since I didn't and looks like won't be anywhere, again.

[Renaissance08]

traveling- I think you may have just run into the worst luck. It seems like those programs that would have been perfect for you a couple of years ago (particularly Princeton, also with Rosand at Columbia) are just in this transitional period where they can't offer you the faculty/advisor that you need (Rosand also told me that he would only be working part time for the next two years, and essentially retiring after that, though he didn't so explicitly say he wasn't taking on any new students). You're so invested in the field, I would encourage you not to give up, even if you hear bad news this week (and I still have hope for you!). I know there's a new professor at Rutgers who specializes in Northern Italian/Venice Renaissance, so there's got to be more options out there for you, and unfortunately you might have to find someone newer to the field just because all the people you should be working with are retiring. To be honest, I wasn't crazy about Brown or Rosand, and I didn't like the atmosphere at Columbia. But still, how absolutely devastating and unfair. But it seems like this is not holding you back at all--you've been doing awesome stuff in an awesome institution in an awesome city (pretty much this country's mecca for what you want to do), surrounded by the art that you love. When I was upset about not getting funding from NY, I went to the Morgan Library and spent a couple of hours at that drawing exhibition, thinking to myself, no matter where I end up at school, I'm going to be spending my life with this stuff. That made me feel better. Anyway, keep us posted... and best of luck.

[travelingartmuse]

Ren08 - Thx for the sympathy. Princeton had an email account on file for me that is 4 yrs old and inactive. The Dean just sent the rejection, as we thought. The thing that gets me and many of you have highlighted it, why not be honest? The field is so small my recommenders all know each other closely and I've met and contacted (or tried to) the advisors I wanted to work with. Why not say, like in your experience, save the $100 application fee and months of anxiety and find somewhere else to apply because 1. I am not taking any students next year 2. I am retiring (and not taking any students) Rosand led me to believe that that it was possible. Your right about making it this far, it's just hard after four years of trying, moving to NYC for it and spending alot money to follow this path. When should one just reassess if the goal is not obtainable?

[dontknowwheretogo]

travelingmuse, I understand your frustration. Don't give up.

[the17thscream]

All of this talk about Rosand and Renaissance types is really making me miss James Beck--a fantastic teacher, scholar and human being. I was lucky enough to take a class from him (Italian Renaissance Sculpture) a few months before he passed, but I feel very sorry for his grad students (his passing was unexpected). Man, there are so many stories of "grandpa beck"...he would constantly do things like put the microphone on his jacket, take off his jacket halfway through the lecture and then ask his TAs where the sound went. Genius of a man, though, and very passionate about his hatred for restorers who don't do their homework and ruin the most amazing art (which he argues is meant to age hundreds of years, as the artist intended his work to last forever). Hence ArtWatch International. He had such great stories about arguing in Italian courts against restoring Michelangelo's David...

Ah, nostalgia...

[elemenoh]

new to the board- seems like everyone is very helpful. maybe some of you can help with my decision. does anyone have any thoughts on the art history program at the univ. of delaware? heard any positives/negatives/strengths/weaknesses of the program? thanks.

[smellie]

Re: Bronwen Wilson

I have to ditto dontknowheretogo. She was the most amazing professor I had. I'm not at all into Renaissance, but her class on Venetian Renaissance was what made me stay in art history.

By the way, I just got an acceptance letter from UNC-Chapel Hill. It took 2 weeks!

I'm just wondering if anyone has info on the school. I haven't yet to visit the place, yet, but it seems like a very friendly environment.

[oneinthree]

I have heard of only one acceptance to Berkeley and two rejections. Beyond being incredibly anxious because I have not yet heard either way from them, I am wondering why there is so little chatter about their PhD program. Mew27, I know you declined early on for a better offer, but did anyone else apply there? If so, where are you in the process? And to all, what's the word on the street about the program? Thanks for any insights...

[theboojum]

smellie:

The best response I've gotten from any school was definitely from UNC. Their staff has been incredibly friendly, and they've been really prompt about answering my questions and getting information I request. The professor I've been in contact with is great. They're getting two new professors this fall who I'd heartily recommend to anyone. I know UNC is supposed to be a good school in general--if anyone else has better information or impressions of the art history dept, I'd be really interested to hear them.

Also, if you call and ask, someone might be able to tell you about funding. I spoke to my prospective adviser over the weekend, and although it seems things haven't been finalized, she was able to give me some really good information.

I can tell you there's no way I'm stepping foot in NYC after the last couple pages, haha.

[smellie]

theboojum,

Do you know by any chance what the two new professors are specialized in? Or is there someone leaving the faculty?

I should really just call them, but I'm just too excited/nervous to do anything right now. My postoffice decided to stop delivering mails to my building for 4 days, (the worst time to go on strike for god's sake!) so I've been dying to get this mail!

[theboojum]

smellie: I don't know if anyone's leaving. I'm never sure what's okay to post here or not, so I just PMed you. That really is the worst time to strike, but I hope it was worth the wait! Congrats!

[mew27]

oneinthree: absolutely everything i've heard about berkeley has been great. i simply couldn't choose it over some other offers, both for financial and for personal reasons. that said, all my professors rave about the department, and a good percentage of our faculty graduated from there. the only problem anyone seems to have is with the funding and with the size of the school (if you're coming from a small, private university, it seems like a bit of a shock)... I think I would've loved the environment there. everyone seems very friendly, and they're totally cutting-edge when it comes to visual studies.

for people who are interested in UNC-CH: i have some friends who go there (they all love it), and i know the area pretty well. it's a great college town, although if you're used to big cities you might find it boring. people in general are extremely friendly and laid-back. also, you have the added benefit of being able to take classes at duke, so that's something to consider...

[vangogh08]

Renaissance: I don't guess my response posted yesterday.

I did check Rutgers website. A lot. Nothing yet. I did like Rutgers when I visited. I only applied to 4 programs because I wanted to make sure I chose places I would be able to live in for 4 or 5 years and where I knew I could have a good fit. Therefore, I didn't really have a first choice. I got into UNC and am just waiting to hear back about funding. Rutgers is the last place I have to hear from.

I didn't apply to any other schools in the area, but from what I can tell when I visited it's a nice place. I liked the location and the campus. The people were great too. It's a fairly large program. To me anyway. There are about 18 faculty as you probably know, which is huge considering I come from an MA program with 7 or 8 professors with usually about 3 or 4 actually teaching. From what I've heard about places like Princeton, Yale, Harvard, or Columbia it has a better student to advisor relationship.

Do you have a school you're leaning toward?

[vangogh08]

To the other UNC acceptee: do you think it would be acceptable for me to email about funding? My acceptance letter said that information would follow from the department, but I'm not sure if I'm expected to contact them. Or who I would even contact. The only contact I've had is the acceptance letter from the graduate school. Thanks!

[smellie]

To the other UNC acceptee: do you think it would be acceptable for me to email about funding? My acceptance letter said that information would follow from the department, but I'm not sure if I'm expected to contact them. Or who I would even contact. The only contact I've had is the acceptance letter from the graduate school. Thanks!

I just e-mailed the department (Robert Kintz?) to find out who I should contact about funding. Would you like me to let you know once I get a response on that issue? I'm in for MA, so I don't know if it's different for Ph.Ds?

[stylefaxee]

I just e-mailed the department (Robert Kintz?) to find out who I should contact about funding. Would you like me to let you know once I get a response on that issue? I'm in for MA, so I don't know if it's different for Ph.Ds?

Yes please! I'm waiting to hear about funding for the MA as well. And congrats on getting into UNC!

I've been so busy these last few days, I've had trouble keeping up with the fast-and-furious posting that's been going on. There are so many good things being said. All of the info on NYU has been VERY helpful in helping me to wean myself from my hopes of going there. It is sounding more and more like the worst place for me. But I am going to fly out there at the end of the month, just to give them the benefit of the doubt. If anyone still making decisions is interested, I will let you know how it goes...

As always, best of luck to everyone still waiting for news. I'm still waiting on CUNY and Iowa ... and funding decisions for Case and UNC.

[stylefaxee]

Is there anyone here from (or going to) the UK? Are UK PhDs valued in the US?

I'm not going to/coming from a UK program, but I seriously considered to applying to UCL and the Courtauld. Both programs are fabulous and definitely have excellent US reputations. Though I was advised that it would be better to get an M.A. at one of those programs and then do your Ph.D at a renowned US program like Harvard, Columbia etc. - if you are looking for a tenure-track job at a US institution. It's a good way to get a leg up when applying to Ph.Ds because those programs are so well reputed for art history. I know less about Oxford and Cambridge - obviously the name recognition is much higher outside academia than the previous two programs. I think it would depend on your potential advisor and your field. Oxford, for example, is great for Renaissance. I'm not sure about other programs, though - those four, as well as Leeds, are the best known and the ones I was advised to consider.

The main reason why I didn't go for it was the likelihood of my getting funding as an overseas student was probably nil, and London is even more expensive than NYC. But I have a friend doing the M.A. at the Courtauld right now and she loves it. So if you can get funding or you can afford it, then why not?