Official Transcripts Vs. Self Upload Anomaly

[skhann]

Why's there such a great anomaly between the official transcripts and self-uploaded copies by applicants? Some schools encourage students to upload scanned copies of their transcripts. Others absolutely want the official transcripts to be sent in sealed envelopes from the mother institutions. What's the point really in official submission when the admission is not granted in the first place? This is particularly difficult for international students that are hard pressed at meeting additional requirements and have to negotiate bureaucratic red tapes. Waiting/delivery times are also much longer. The application phase is just that, a phase. The adcoms and higher-ups of the non-cooperative universities need to up their game.

[pinoysoc]

19 minutes ago, skhann said:

Why's there such a great anomaly between the official transcripts and self-uploaded copies by applicants? Some schools encourage students to upload scanned copies of their transcripts. Others absolutely want the official transcripts to be sent in sealed envelopes from the mother institutions. What's the point really in official submission when the admission is not granted in the first place? This is particularly difficult for international students that are hard pressed at meeting additional requirements and have to negotiate bureaucratic red tapes. Waiting/delivery times are also much longer. The application phase is just that, a phase. The adcoms and higher-ups of the non-cooperative universities need to up their game.

I understand your frustration! Self-uploaded transcripts (I suppose...) are used by adcomm's to admit students into the grad school/program we apply for. Getting an official transcript is meant for record keeping purposes at the graduate school/department level. 6 of the 7 programs I applied to only wanted uploaded copies of the transcript; and the officials aren't required until you get accepted. One school wanted TWO OFFICIAL transcripts sent - which maybe is about eliminating the whole "we need your official one when you get admitted;" however, which is a losing situation for those who don't get in. 

There's also the whole cheating/falsifying issue. So it does make sense!

I would rather have all universities in the US have ONE BIG database of everyone's transcripts that's free and doesn't cost us any money at all!

[skhann]

2 minutes ago, pinoysoc said:

I understand your frustration! Self-uploaded transcripts (I suppose...) are used by adcomm's to admit students into the grad school/program we apply for. Getting an official transcript is meant for record keeping purposes at the graduate school/department level. 6 of the 7 programs I applied to only wanted uploaded copies of the transcript; and the officials aren't required until you get accepted. One school wanted TWO OFFICIAL transcripts sent - which maybe is about eliminating the whole "we need your official one when you get admitted;" however, which is a losing situation for those who don't get in. 

There's also the whole cheating/falsifying issue. So it does make sense!

I would rather have all universities in the US have ONE BIG database of everyone's transcripts that's free and doesn't cost us any money at all!

Thanks for your input. Cheating/falsifying is a factor but I guess when many schools have stopped asking for official transcripts then there are ways for them to overcome this problem. +100 for your proposal for having a central database for transcripts. Will make things much simpler.

[pinoysoc]

1 minute ago, skhann said:

Thanks for your input. Cheating/falsifying is a factor but I guess when many schools have stopped asking for official transcripts then there are ways for them to overcome this problem. +100 for your proposal for having a central database for transcripts. Will make things much simpler.

YESSSS! Applying gets so expensive that's why! GRE scores are $27 per school. Plus a lot Graduate Schools charge AN AVERAGE of $80 to $95 per school submitted application. It does add up and with this type of economy/job outlook none of us can afford to apply to more than 4 or 5 schools per year. And it adds up if you keep applying!

[MarineBluePsy]

During my last application season nearly all of the schools required 2 official transcripts and since ordering transcripts from my 4 prior schools would be expensive I insisted on knowing why.  Turns out not every school is organized.  So even though the application is sent to the Graduate School they may not forward everything (or anything!) to the actual Department you're applying to.  So the Department has its own application (sometimes with a separate fee, yeah that was fun) asking for pretty much the same things. 

I figured that if they couldn't figure out how to move paperwork or an electronic file from one place to the next I'd better forward the transcripts myself as well.  I got permission from each school I applied to (Graduate School and Department) to forward my own official transcripts as long as I left them in their sealed envelopes.  No problems.   This also meant I could attach a delivery confirmation or overnight things as needed.  If the GRE allowed this I wouldn't have spent a ridiculous number of hours emailing and calling all over the country to get those located (and its an electronic file so this shouldn't be so hard) and attached to my application.

I suspect that schools requiring official transcripts prior to offering acceptance know they don't need them.  If anyone is stupid enough to falsify an unofficial transcript they'll be caught once an official one is received.  I think this is just another hoop designed to weed people out, because those who can't afford it won't apply.

[skhann]

33 minutes ago, MarineBluePsy said:

During my last application season nearly all of the schools required 2 official transcripts and since ordering transcripts from my 4 prior schools would be expensive I insisted on knowing why.  Turns out not every school is organized.  So even though the application is sent to the Graduate School they may not forward everything (or anything!) to the actual Department you're applying to.  So the Department has its own application (sometimes with a separate fee, yeah that was fun) asking for pretty much the same things. 

I figured that if they couldn't figure out how to move paperwork or an electronic file from one place to the next I'd better forward the transcripts myself as well.  I got permission from each school I applied to (Graduate School and Department) to forward my own official transcripts as long as I left them in their sealed envelopes.  No problems.   This also meant I could attach a delivery confirmation or overnight things as needed.  If the GRE allowed this I wouldn't have spent a ridiculous number of hours emailing and calling all over the country to get those located (and its an electronic file so this shouldn't be so hard) and attached to my application.

I suspect that schools requiring official transcripts prior to offering acceptance know they don't need them.  If anyone is stupid enough to falsify an unofficial transcript they'll be caught once an official one is received.  I think this is just another hoop designed to weed people out, because those who can't afford it won't apply.

Still you had to go through significant hassle plus the mailing costs etc. A very unethical hoop I must say if that is the case. Even more problematic for international students.

[MarineBluePsy]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:53 PM, skhann said:

Still you had to go through significant hassle plus the mailing costs etc. A very unethical hoop I must say if that is the case. Even more problematic for international students.

Oh sure it was still a hassle.  On the one hand it was great that I could order all of the transcripts I needed from each school and have them sent directly to me and then knowing for certain when they arrived at the schools I applied to.  But having to do that in the first place was ridiculous when an unofficial transcript would have been sufficient.  I just don't see programs changing on this though.

[skhann]

9 hours ago, MarineBluePsy said:

Oh sure it was still a hassle.  On the one hand it was great that I could order all of the transcripts I needed from each school and have them sent directly to me and then knowing for certain when they arrived at the schools I applied to.  But having to do that in the first place was ridiculous when an unofficial transcript would have been sufficient.  I just don't see programs changing on this though.

Yes they are not gonna change and that's the real tragedy. :-(

[quinessloopypun]

I absolutely feel you. Ultimately, I didn't apply to three schools that I really wanted to (Michigan, University of Southern California and UCLA) just because of this requirement. As an international applicant, my school charged obscene fees to send official transcripts to overseas institutions. When I realized that I can apply to extra couple of schools instead of sending official transcripts to these schools, I opted out not to.

[pinoysoc]

1 hour ago, quinessloopypun said:

I absolutely feel you. Ultimately, I didn't apply to three schools that I really wanted to (Michigan, University of Southern California and UCLA) just because of this requirement. As an international applicant, my school charged obscene fees to send official transcripts to overseas institutions. When I realized that I can apply to extra couple of schools instead of sending official transcripts to these schools, I opted out not to.

Titan sounds horrible! How many schools did you end up adding by not applying to those schools?

[quinessloopypun]

8 minutes ago, pinoysoc said:

Titan sounds horrible! How many schools did you end up adding by not applying to those schools?

Thanks for the sympathies! I ended up applying to 12, 4 of them being fee-waived. Even this, coupled with GRE/TOEFL score orders, was almost not affordable for me, since exchange rates were pretty crushing.

Edited December 31, 2017 by quinessloopypun

[pinoysoc]

2 hours ago, quinessloopypun said:

Thanks for the sympathies! I ended up applying to 12, 4 of them being fee-waived. Even this, coupled with GRE/TOEFL score orders, was almost not affordable for me, since exchange rates were pretty crushing.

Oh man! If you don't mind me asking, where are you from? I bet it must have been a fortune! With practice (this is my third application season), I learned that quantity is not necessarily a good thing. I picked the schools that was a "GOOD FIT" for the department. 

 

[Sandmaster]

4 hours ago, quinessloopypun said:

I absolutely feel you. Ultimately, I didn't apply to three schools that I really wanted to (Michigan, University of Southern California and UCLA) just because of this requirement. As an international applicant, my school charged obscene fees to send official transcripts to overseas institutions. When I realized that I can apply to extra couple of schools instead of sending official transcripts to these schools, I opted out not to.

While I am not an international applicant, I can completely feel you on the fact that I had to order official transcripts from my three institutions (two undergrad and one grad). While it is somewhat burdensome for me, I could imagine it was costly and annoying for you. I am very sorry that there is that added struggle for international applicants that I had never really considered before. I know that getting all of those transcripts costed me like an extra $70 which could have been used to apply to one-two other schools, or just saved that money in general. I applied to seven programs and two of them were fee waived. So the five programs, between the GRE scores, app fees, and transcripts for two of them, costed me around $650. It was not an easy pill to swallow, but all in all it paid off as I have been getting some good news and I am at least getting interviewed and already an acceptance at some of my top choices. But, I would have felt devastated if I had been flat out rejected after spending that money

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sandmaster

[quinessloopypun]

1 hour ago, pinoysoc said:

Oh man! If you don't mind me asking, where are you from? I bet it must have been a fortune! With practice (this is my third application season), I learned that quantity is not necessarily a good thing. I picked the schools that was a "GOOD FIT" for the department. 

Thanks for the sympathies! I don't mind. I am from Turkey. If you follow a bit of Bloomberg News, you will appreciate that being from Turkey was not any help in terms of applications, since Turkish lira had one of its worst years overall. This made the whole venture risky as well, considering that I would be putting out there a significant portion of my money, betting on admissions.

Yes, quality over quantity should be a general motto. I have the impression that fit is a major player in admissions, even though there seems to be a general notion of strong applicant. I tried to hand-pick my schools as diligently as possible due to this. Thanks for the advice!

44 minutes ago, Sandmaster said:

While I am not an international applicant, I can completely feel you on the fact that I had to order official transcripts from my three institutions (two undergrad and one grad). While it is somewhat burdensome for me, I could imagine it was costly and annoying for you. I am very sorry that there is that added struggle for international applicants that I had never really considered before. I know that getting all of those transcripts costed me like an extra $70 which could have been used to apply to one-two other schools, or just saved that money in general. I applied to seven programs and two of them were fee waived. So the five programs, between the GRE scores, app fees, and transcripts for two of them, costed me around $650. It was not an easy pill to swallow, but all in all it paid off as I have been getting some good news and I am at least getting interviewed and already an acceptance at some of my top choices. But, I would have felt devastated if I had been flat out rejected after spending that money

Yes, it went so far as to be a dealbreaker for me, even though all three of those schools were great fits for me. My school tried to charge me 40+$ per transcript, which is outright swindle, if you ask me. I am so glad that it worked out for you. The thing is, if you get admitted, in hindsight, it absolves of the cost, but applying to graduate schools should not feel like a gamble. For instance, Carnegie Mellon, feeling this way, abolished application fees altogether and I believe in the upcoming years other institutions will follow suit. I guess we will remember ourselves as the martyrs, having paid the heavy price for graduate school. : P

Again, I am so glad that it worked out for you. At this stage I can only hope the same for myself.

Edited December 31, 2017 by quinessloopypun

[skhann]

6 hours ago, quinessloopypun said:

I absolutely feel you. Ultimately, I didn't apply to three schools that I really wanted to (Michigan, University of Southern California and UCLA) just because of this requirement. As an international applicant, my school charged obscene fees to send official transcripts to overseas institutions. When I realized that I can apply to extra couple of schools instead of sending official transcripts to these schools, I opted out not to.

That's sad to hear. A major sacrifice so to speak. Hoping you'll get admission in other ones.

[skhann]

2 hours ago, pinoysoc said:

Oh man! If you don't mind me asking, where are you from? I bet it must have been a fortune! With practice (this is my third application season), I learned that quantity is not necessarily a good thing. I picked the schools that was a "GOOD FIT" for the department. 

 

If you don't mind my asking, what's with this third cycle? Are you focusing on the top-ranked schools and can't compromise? Did you get any offers during the previous two cycles? Asking because I am opting for the multiple apps route as I don't have good GRE scores and also already kinda late by a few years.

[pinoysoc]

9 minutes ago, skhann said:

If you don't mind my asking, what's with this third cycle? Are you focusing on the top-ranked schools and can't compromise? Did you get any offers during the previous two cycles? Asking because I am opting for the multiple apps route as I don't have good GRE scores and also already kinda late by a few years.

Hey @skhann!

What I meant is that this is my third time applying. I unsuccessfully applied for Ph.D. programs in 2014. Got into a fully-funded MA program for the 2015 application cycle. And currently applying for Ph.D. programs for the 2018 application cycle.

Sorry for the confusion.

[skhann]

No problem.

[quinessloopypun]

23 minutes ago, skhann said:

That's sad to hear. A major sacrifice so to speak. Hoping you'll get admission in other ones.

Thank you for your understanding and good wishes! I wish the best in your endeavors as well.

[Debz]

Have a different question that requires immediate attention. One of the universities I'm applying to says that they've a deadline for the official transcripts' hardcopy to reach their university (Jan 5th). Being an international student I'm not sure if the courier will make the deadline and I haven't received a response from the university. Should I be worried? 

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

I didn't have too many issues with transcripts (one of my schools will send 2 for free and the rest at a super cheap rate and the other school sends them for cheap), but I did have to hunt down my GREs at two schools (electronically sent). It actually became a huge back and forth with ETS and the school where the school was saying I needed to get ETS to send them again and ETS saying they wouldn't send anything until the school contacted them. Eventually, it resolved without me having to pay more, but that was probably the most stressful out-of-my-control thing that happened this cycle.

[pinoysoc]

7 minutes ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

I didn't have too many issues with transcripts (one of my schools will send 2 for free and the rest at a super cheap rate and the other school sends them for cheap), but I did have to hunt down my GREs at two schools (electronically sent). It actually became a huge back and forth with ETS and the school where the school was saying I needed to get ETS to send them again and ETS saying they wouldn't send anything until the school contacted them. Eventually, it resolved without me having to pay more, but that was probably the most stressful out-of-my-control thing that happened this cycle.

That sounds horrible! But I'm very glad that things worked out! What programs are you applying for?

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

@pinoysoc it was really bad for a while, but both schools located my GREs in the end.  

I'm applying to 7 programs in Comms and Media Studies. Still waiting to hear back from 6 of them, but all my apps are completely in.  How about you?

[pinoysoc]

4 minutes ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

@pinoysoc it was really bad for a while, but both schools located my GREs in the end.  

I'm applying to 7 programs in Comms and Media Studies. Still waiting to hear back from 6 of them, but all my apps are completely in.  How about you?

@GreenEyedTrombonist ! That sounds awesome! I'm an applicant in Sociology (with most being dual-degree/title programs). This is actually my third time applying. I remember 2014 being so bad (8 rejections one after the other) and all that money I spent applying!!!!!! 

HAHAHA

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

@pinoysoc That was me last year. 5 applications and all rejections. I have one acceptance so far (to a program I'm super interested in) so this season is already leaps and bounds above the last! 

Best of luck to you!