meghan_sparkle

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

I have definitely heard of this being done and it's a topic of debate on these forums now and again. So: the most pragmatic answer is that yes, it's done, and if money is truly the factor preventing you accepting an offer that is otherwise your #1 choice, I would definitely broach the subject. Maybe not at visits, though you could—my instinct is just that visits should be all about getting to know faculty and your cohort etc and the DGS will be juggling a lot that weekend/day, compared to a conversation via phone or email after the fact when you've really got it narrowed down to, say, 2. 
I guess I'm of two minds on this generally (next couple paragraphs packed with wisdom I've gotten from mentors and friends of mine who are in currently programs/now in academia, so ignore my authoritative tone; it's inherited). On one hand, I think programs offering equal funding to grad students is often a key component to a good cohort dynamic and a good experience and several have told me to look out for it. Obvs I have no knowledge of this firsthand but I can see why it would be the case.
On the other hand, it is so important to be hard-nosed on visits (and in the period after when making decisions) and not be seduced by any romantic visions of graduate student life, like "oh, 5-6 years of funded writing and reading!" That anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 pretends decisions between programs are (often) not largely about money is a little crazy to me. Unless you are independently wealthy/have family support it should 100% be a primary consideration. Once you are there as a student, you are in a large sense a provider of labour for them, and you should think of it like accepting a job. Because it is one.
However, it's often not just about the stipend dollar amount. There are a lot of ways to complicate this consideration that may be helpful to you: 
1. How far does that money go in the area? Living in the Bay area on UC Berkeley money vs on Stanford money—VERY different things. My funding package from Harvard and Columbia are substantially higher than Chicago and Brown, but all things aren't created equal—it's about how far Brown money goes in Providence vs Columbia money in NYC. So when you say substantially more, how much more, and how are the areas comparable? Also: are there internal opportunities through the department or university in later years to increase that funding, e.g. teaching fellowships or competitive fellowships? These will be much more common at some universities than others.
2. Other factors: Is there summer funding? If so, what years is it available? How easy is it to get a 6th year of funding, if you're only guaranteed five? (Ask current students about this; they're the ones who'll know. I've heard for example from a couple current students that Yale tries pretty hard to get you out in 5, though you wouldn't know that from the department website.) How often are you paid? When is the first payment (if you're an international student who'll be incurring moving costs at the start)? Does it adjust yearly for inflation? What are the departmental funds like for conferences, and how does their travel fund work? What about university emergency funds (e.g. for unexpected emergency costs, accidents, deaths in the family, emergency dental)? While I don't think any one of these will be a tipping point when weighing financial packages, amounts in the hundreds or low thousand(s) can be a big deal when you're estimating your cost of living year to year, and can definitely flesh out a fuller picture of what you're looking at. 
3. Lastly it is almost never bad manners to discuss this, though you may get franker and more helpful answers on visits from current students, so they may be your first port of call before you take it to a DGS or faculty member. If it were me, I would not leverage offers against multiple universities in order to get them to make my decision for me (not saying this is what you're doing btw, but I think there's a world in which some decisions are so hard to make that you might push for an equalizing factor to make pulling the trigger easier). But if I'd narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and one option had a substantially less attractive financial package, there is really no harm in asking.

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

I have definitely heard of this being done and it's a topic of debate on these forums now and again. So: the most pragmatic answer is that yes, it's done, and if money is truly the factor preventing you accepting an offer that is otherwise your #1 choice, I would definitely broach the subject. Maybe not at visits, though you could—my instinct is just that visits should be all about getting to know faculty and your cohort etc and the DGS will be juggling a lot that weekend/day, compared to a conversation via phone or email after the fact when you've really got it narrowed down to, say, 2. 
I guess I'm of two minds on this generally (next couple paragraphs packed with wisdom I've gotten from mentors and friends of mine who are in currently programs/now in academia, so ignore my authoritative tone; it's inherited). On one hand, I think programs offering equal funding to grad students is often a key component to a good cohort dynamic and a good experience and several have told me to look out for it. Obvs I have no knowledge of this firsthand but I can see why it would be the case.
On the other hand, it is so important to be hard-nosed on visits (and in the period after when making decisions) and not be seduced by any romantic visions of graduate student life, like "oh, 5-6 years of funded writing and reading!" That anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 pretends decisions between programs are (often) not largely about money is a little crazy to me. Unless you are independently wealthy/have family support it should 100% be a primary consideration. Once you are there as a student, you are in a large sense a provider of labour for them, and you should think of it like accepting a job. Because it is one.
However, it's often not just about the stipend dollar amount. There are a lot of ways to complicate this consideration that may be helpful to you: 
1. How far does that money go in the area? Living in the Bay area on UC Berkeley money vs on Stanford money—VERY different things. My funding package from Harvard and Columbia are substantially higher than Chicago and Brown, but all things aren't created equal—it's about how far Brown money goes in Providence vs Columbia money in NYC. So when you say substantially more, how much more, and how are the areas comparable? Also: are there internal opportunities through the department or university in later years to increase that funding, e.g. teaching fellowships or competitive fellowships? These will be much more common at some universities than others.
2. Other factors: Is there summer funding? If so, what years is it available? How easy is it to get a 6th year of funding, if you're only guaranteed five? (Ask current students about this; they're the ones who'll know. I've heard for example from a couple current students that Yale tries pretty hard to get you out in 5, though you wouldn't know that from the department website.) How often are you paid? When is the first payment (if you're an international student who'll be incurring moving costs at the start)? Does it adjust yearly for inflation? What are the departmental funds like for conferences, and how does their travel fund work? What about university emergency funds (e.g. for unexpected emergency costs, accidents, deaths in the family, emergency dental)? While I don't think any one of these will be a tipping point when weighing financial packages, amounts in the hundreds or low thousand(s) can be a big deal when you're estimating your cost of living year to year, and can definitely flesh out a fuller picture of what you're looking at. 
3. Lastly it is almost never bad manners to discuss this, though you may get franker and more helpful answers on visits from current students, so they may be your first port of call before you take it to a DGS or faculty member. If it were me, I would not leverage offers against multiple universities in order to get them to make my decision for me (not saying this is what you're doing btw, but I think there's a world in which some decisions are so hard to make that you might push for an equalizing factor to make pulling the trigger easier). But if I'd narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and one option had a substantially less attractive financial package, there is really no harm in asking.

Just finished a breathtaking first visit to Yale. It will be ... hard to beat that, to be honest. Oof.

I asked my faculty mentor about this and this is what he said that I found super helpful,
"First of all, you’re not necessarily expected to do anything beyond inform them of your decision. I agree that it would be nice to email the DGS rather than just checking the box in the online portal, but it can be short and businesslike. You don’t have to detail any reasons or tell them which schools you’re still considering at this point. “I’m writing to inform you that I have decided not to attend the University of X next fall. I wanted to let you know of my decision as soon as possible, so that you would have the option of opening the spot in your entering class to someone else. Thank you very much for your offer of admission and for the generous assistantship package you were prepared to give me.” Something like that."
He went on to talk about how they might ask who you turned them down for but that's just something they do for their internal statistics and that emailing your POI is really optional but to treat it "almost like a breakup" if you do email them. Hope this helps!

These are good questions that I hope Columbia can answer for you. I’m wondering similar things about Princeton tbh. 

I have definitely heard of this being done and it's a topic of debate on these forums now and again. So: the most pragmatic answer is that yes, it's done, and if money is truly the factor preventing you accepting an offer that is otherwise your #1 choice, I would definitely broach the subject. Maybe not at visits, though you could—my instinct is just that visits should be all about getting to know faculty and your cohort etc and the DGS will be juggling a lot that weekend/day, compared to a conversation via phone or email after the fact when you've really got it narrowed down to, say, 2. 
I guess I'm of two minds on this generally (next couple paragraphs packed with wisdom I've gotten from mentors and friends of mine who are in currently programs/now in academia, so ignore my authoritative tone; it's inherited). On one hand, I think programs offering equal funding to grad students is often a key component to a good cohort dynamic and a good experience and several have told me to look out for it. Obvs I have no knowledge of this firsthand but I can see why it would be the case.
On the other hand, it is so important to be hard-nosed on visits (and in the period after when making decisions) and not be seduced by any romantic visions of graduate student life, like "oh, 5-6 years of funded writing and reading!" That anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 pretends decisions between programs are (often) not largely about money is a little crazy to me. Unless you are independently wealthy/have family support it should 100% be a primary consideration. Once you are there as a student, you are in a large sense a provider of labour for them, and you should think of it like accepting a job. Because it is one.
However, it's often not just about the stipend dollar amount. There are a lot of ways to complicate this consideration that may be helpful to you: 
1. How far does that money go in the area? Living in the Bay area on UC Berkeley money vs on Stanford money—VERY different things. My funding package from Harvard and Columbia are substantially higher than Chicago and Brown, but all things aren't created equal—it's about how far Brown money goes in Providence vs Columbia money in NYC. So when you say substantially more, how much more, and how are the areas comparable? Also: are there internal opportunities through the department or university in later years to increase that funding, e.g. teaching fellowships or competitive fellowships? These will be much more common at some universities than others.
2. Other factors: Is there summer funding? If so, what years is it available? How easy is it to get a 6th year of funding, if you're only guaranteed five? (Ask current students about this; they're the ones who'll know. I've heard for example from a couple current students that Yale tries pretty hard to get you out in 5, though you wouldn't know that from the department website.) How often are you paid? When is the first payment (if you're an international student who'll be incurring moving costs at the start)? Does it adjust yearly for inflation? What are the departmental funds like for conferences, and how does their travel fund work? What about university emergency funds (e.g. for unexpected emergency costs, accidents, deaths in the family, emergency dental)? While I don't think any one of these will be a tipping point when weighing financial packages, amounts in the hundreds or low thousand(s) can be a big deal when you're estimating your cost of living year to year, and can definitely flesh out a fuller picture of what you're looking at. 
3. Lastly it is almost never bad manners to discuss this, though you may get franker and more helpful answers on visits from current students, so they may be your first port of call before you take it to a DGS or faculty member. If it were me, I would not leverage offers against multiple universities in order to get them to make my decision for me (not saying this is what you're doing btw, but I think there's a world in which some decisions are so hard to make that you might push for an equalizing factor to make pulling the trigger easier). But if I'd narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and one option had a substantially less attractive financial package, there is really no harm in asking.

Yeah, I'm not referring to the placement record. Everyone has a bad placement record. I'm referring specifically to the cited lack of support and mentorship that graduate students received due to the size of cohorts and lack of official institutional professionalization on the latter end of the degree. Those were the conditions that graduate students at Columbia cited in their complaint and those are the conditions that leave students feeling isolated and hopeless when they confront the realities of the job market They also make it difficult to finish the degree, leading to higher rates of attrition, and also give students no help successfully translating academic skills into the non-academic world (which the realities of the job market require). I think it's important to distinguish between placement and a given institution's support for transitioning out of the academy (whether that's job support or other kinds of mentorship later in the degree).

So this is the recruiting stage. This is a part of their job, and it doesn't necessarily reflect an immediate desire to develop a close relationship with you. It also doesn't not mean that, but I say this for others who may get caught up in the wonderful attention you'll be getting: Don't be surprised if you're left to your own devices once you actually begin the program. 
In terms of the emails, respond like a human is the easiest bit of advice. I preferred phone conversations, had they offered that option in the email. Ask about their mentoring style and department culture around that topic. Or ask about how they like living in whatever city. My conversations varied from talking about my work or their work to the structure of the program to general life things. You can pretty much ask whatever you like, but keep in mind that it's hard to read those conversations as more than exchanging niceties during the recruitment process. That said, I did vibe with the faculty at the program I chose more than others. It was an important factor for me, too. 
 

Play video games. Watch Netflix. Enjoy your last months of true freedom. 

I have definitely heard of this being done and it's a topic of debate on these forums now and again. So: the most pragmatic answer is that yes, it's done, and if money is truly the factor preventing you accepting an offer that is otherwise your #1 choice, I would definitely broach the subject. Maybe not at visits, though you could—my instinct is just that visits should be all about getting to know faculty and your cohort etc and the DGS will be juggling a lot that weekend/day, compared to a conversation via phone or email after the fact when you've really got it narrowed down to, say, 2. 
I guess I'm of two minds on this generally (next couple paragraphs packed with wisdom I've gotten from mentors and friends of mine who are in currently programs/now in academia, so ignore my authoritative tone; it's inherited). On one hand, I think programs offering equal funding to grad students is often a key component to a good cohort dynamic and a good experience and several have told me to look out for it. Obvs I have no knowledge of this firsthand but I can see why it would be the case.
On the other hand, it is so important to be hard-nosed on visits (and in the period after when making decisions) and not be seduced by any romantic visions of graduate student life, like "oh, 5-6 years of funded writing and reading!" That anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 pretends decisions between programs are (often) not largely about money is a little crazy to me. Unless you are independently wealthy/have family support it should 100% be a primary consideration. Once you are there as a student, you are in a large sense a provider of labour for them, and you should think of it like accepting a job. Because it is one.
However, it's often not just about the stipend dollar amount. There are a lot of ways to complicate this consideration that may be helpful to you: 
1. How far does that money go in the area? Living in the Bay area on UC Berkeley money vs on Stanford money—VERY different things. My funding package from Harvard and Columbia are substantially higher than Chicago and Brown, but all things aren't created equal—it's about how far Brown money goes in Providence vs Columbia money in NYC. So when you say substantially more, how much more, and how are the areas comparable? Also: are there internal opportunities through the department or university in later years to increase that funding, e.g. teaching fellowships or competitive fellowships? These will be much more common at some universities than others.
2. Other factors: Is there summer funding? If so, what years is it available? How easy is it to get a 6th year of funding, if you're only guaranteed five? (Ask current students about this; they're the ones who'll know. I've heard for example from a couple current students that Yale tries pretty hard to get you out in 5, though you wouldn't know that from the department website.) How often are you paid? When is the first payment (if you're an international student who'll be incurring moving costs at the start)? Does it adjust yearly for inflation? What are the departmental funds like for conferences, and how does their travel fund work? What about university emergency funds (e.g. for unexpected emergency costs, accidents, deaths in the family, emergency dental)? While I don't think any one of these will be a tipping point when weighing financial packages, amounts in the hundreds or low thousand(s) can be a big deal when you're estimating your cost of living year to year, and can definitely flesh out a fuller picture of what you're looking at. 
3. Lastly it is almost never bad manners to discuss this, though you may get franker and more helpful answers on visits from current students, so they may be your first port of call before you take it to a DGS or faculty member. If it were me, I would not leverage offers against multiple universities in order to get them to make my decision for me (not saying this is what you're doing btw, but I think there's a world in which some decisions are so hard to make that you might push for an equalizing factor to make pulling the trigger easier). But if I'd narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and one option had a substantially less attractive financial package, there is really no harm in asking.

I have definitely heard of this being done and it's a topic of debate on these forums now and again. So: the most pragmatic answer is that yes, it's done, and if money is truly the factor preventing you accepting an offer that is otherwise your #1 choice, I would definitely broach the subject. Maybe not at visits, though you could—my instinct is just that visits should be all about getting to know faculty and your cohort etc and the DGS will be juggling a lot that weekend/day, compared to a conversation via phone or email after the fact when you've really got it narrowed down to, say, 2. 
I guess I'm of two minds on this generally (next couple paragraphs packed with wisdom I've gotten from mentors and friends of mine who are in currently programs/now in academia, so ignore my authoritative tone; it's inherited). On one hand, I think programs offering equal funding to grad students is often a key component to a good cohort dynamic and a good experience and several have told me to look out for it. Obvs I have no knowledge of this firsthand but I can see why it would be the case.
On the other hand, it is so important to be hard-nosed on visits (and in the period after when making decisions) and not be seduced by any romantic visions of graduate student life, like "oh, 5-6 years of funded writing and reading!" That anyone in the year of our Lord 2020 pretends decisions between programs are (often) not largely about money is a little crazy to me. Unless you are independently wealthy/have family support it should 100% be a primary consideration. Once you are there as a student, you are in a large sense a provider of labour for them, and you should think of it like accepting a job. Because it is one.
However, it's often not just about the stipend dollar amount. There are a lot of ways to complicate this consideration that may be helpful to you: 
1. How far does that money go in the area? Living in the Bay area on UC Berkeley money vs on Stanford money—VERY different things. My funding package from Harvard and Columbia are substantially higher than Chicago and Brown, but all things aren't created equal—it's about how far Brown money goes in Providence vs Columbia money in NYC. So when you say substantially more, how much more, and how are the areas comparable? Also: are there internal opportunities through the department or university in later years to increase that funding, e.g. teaching fellowships or competitive fellowships? These will be much more common at some universities than others.
2. Other factors: Is there summer funding? If so, what years is it available? How easy is it to get a 6th year of funding, if you're only guaranteed five? (Ask current students about this; they're the ones who'll know. I've heard for example from a couple current students that Yale tries pretty hard to get you out in 5, though you wouldn't know that from the department website.) How often are you paid? When is the first payment (if you're an international student who'll be incurring moving costs at the start)? Does it adjust yearly for inflation? What are the departmental funds like for conferences, and how does their travel fund work? What about university emergency funds (e.g. for unexpected emergency costs, accidents, deaths in the family, emergency dental)? While I don't think any one of these will be a tipping point when weighing financial packages, amounts in the hundreds or low thousand(s) can be a big deal when you're estimating your cost of living year to year, and can definitely flesh out a fuller picture of what you're looking at. 
3. Lastly it is almost never bad manners to discuss this, though you may get franker and more helpful answers on visits from current students, so they may be your first port of call before you take it to a DGS or faculty member. If it were me, I would not leverage offers against multiple universities in order to get them to make my decision for me (not saying this is what you're doing btw, but I think there's a world in which some decisions are so hard to make that you might push for an equalizing factor to make pulling the trigger easier). But if I'd narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and one option had a substantially less attractive financial package, there is really no harm in asking.

I definitely think prestige plays a role. I don't agree with the mentality that it's a singular barrier to entry, nor do I think that it's worthwhile to dwell on the question of whether it is or isn't. So much of academia is learning to speak the language. When I was shut out my first cycle, I was caught up in similar patterns of thought (ageism, first half of undergrad in community college, first generation student, and the list goes on), but I settled on the more productive notion that maybe I didn't speak the language as well as others and that had I presented my materials differently then maybe I would have had more success. 
Biases, patterns of selection, etc. all factor into this system, absolutely, but I just don't think writing off one's failures to them is worthwhile in the long run. 

I'm a very nontraditional student. Chicago and Brown, at least, didn't seem to care last year. Add those to the list, I suppose--though I don't know how I feel about the advice to avoid Ivies otherwise. If it comes down to finances, I suppose one might exercise some guesswork and apply to what seems viable. I'm partially responding to some  frustrations in other threads here about academia only caring about prestige. Maybe, maybe not. It just doesn't help to think that way if you're trying to succeed within said system. 
Biggest thing I've learned, which I utterly failed to take advantage of, is to get eyes on your materials. Nearly every person I've encountered who has had major success has had close relationships with faculty who guided their applications. Really, guiding their success in general--which is not trying to undermine anyone's hard work. Having a network of close mentors in undergrad forward means an extraordinary amount in academia. 
 

out of reactions but omg I FEEL THIS

Part II:
A: Go to (k). I went to (y) but the three most brilliant minds working in literary studies right now are at (k). You would be an idiot not to go there, but I have a feeling you won't, because you'll be an idiot about it.
Me: Well I've heard that all of the graduate students at (k) are miserable—a lot of current and recent ones have reached out to me with not so great things.
A: What is "happiness" anyway? Why would anyone do a PhD thinking they're going to be happy during it? 
Me: Okay that's a point. Were you happy at (y)?
A: Well, yes.
Me: I feel like I could be really happy at (x) but they apparently haven't placed a TT job in 3 or 4 years now.
B: There are no jobs. You will not get a job. Just go where you want to read and write for 6 years and expect to leave the profession after.
Me: But you have a job.
B: Do not pay attention to that. No one gets jobs.
Me: This is a Beckett play and I want out.

Just an update on this: I have been emailing/having coffees with all of the mentors of mine who're in the know about the state of the programs I applied to at the moment and they are ... all giving me completely contradictory advice lol! Also most of them know each other and it's gotten to the point where some are fighting behind the scenes about their advice to me. (I'm sure this will all be fine in the end, no one is totally right and no one is totally wrong, but just picture me, a person who always tries to please her teachers, good teacher's pet, sitting in a chair, trying to process all of this.)
A: Don't go to (x). There's no one for you to work with there.
B: Well, A doesn't know what she's talking about. Go to (x). 
C : Wait, actually I think (y) could be a perfect fit for you. Don't go to (z).
D : I've been talking to C and we both think you should go to (y). Go where you have multiple people you want to work with who have clout.
E: I know you like (y) a lot but eh ... I'm not crazy about [POI]. 
D : I've changed my mind; go to (k).
F (teacher of B ) : (x) is boring. (y) is also boring. Don't go to (x) or (y) under any circumstances. Also don't choose for advisors; all that can change. Go where you like the intellectual community best. More soon, bye.
B : Remember there are no jobs so don't expect that you'll get one. Kiss kiss!

Part II:
A: Go to (k). I went to (y) but the three most brilliant minds working in literary studies right now are at (k). You would be an idiot not to go there, but I have a feeling you won't, because you'll be an idiot about it.
Me: Well I've heard that all of the graduate students at (k) are miserable—a lot of current and recent ones have reached out to me with not so great things.
A: What is "happiness" anyway? Why would anyone do a PhD thinking they're going to be happy during it? 
Me: Okay that's a point. Were you happy at (y)?
A: Well, yes.
Me: I feel like I could be really happy at (x) but they apparently haven't placed a TT job in 3 or 4 years now.
B: There are no jobs. You will not get a job. Just go where you want to read and write for 6 years and expect to leave the profession after.
Me: But you have a job.
B: Do not pay attention to that. No one gets jobs.
Me: This is a Beckett play and I want out.

Part II:
A: Go to (k). I went to (y) but the three most brilliant minds working in literary studies right now are at (k). You would be an idiot not to go there, but I have a feeling you won't, because you'll be an idiot about it.
Me: Well I've heard that all of the graduate students at (k) are miserable—a lot of current and recent ones have reached out to me with not so great things.
A: What is "happiness" anyway? Why would anyone do a PhD thinking they're going to be happy during it? 
Me: Okay that's a point. Were you happy at (y)?
A: Well, yes.
Me: I feel like I could be really happy at (x) but they apparently haven't placed a TT job in 3 or 4 years now.
B: There are no jobs. You will not get a job. Just go where you want to read and write for 6 years and expect to leave the profession after.
Me: But you have a job.
B: Do not pay attention to that. No one gets jobs.
Me: This is a Beckett play and I want out.

Part II:
A: Go to (k). I went to (y) but the three most brilliant minds working in literary studies right now are at (k). You would be an idiot not to go there, but I have a feeling you won't, because you'll be an idiot about it.
Me: Well I've heard that all of the graduate students at (k) are miserable—a lot of current and recent ones have reached out to me with not so great things.
A: What is "happiness" anyway? Why would anyone do a PhD thinking they're going to be happy during it? 
Me: Okay that's a point. Were you happy at (y)?
A: Well, yes.
Me: I feel like I could be really happy at (x) but they apparently haven't placed a TT job in 3 or 4 years now.
B: There are no jobs. You will not get a job. Just go where you want to read and write for 6 years and expect to leave the profession after.
Me: But you have a job.
B: Do not pay attention to that. No one gets jobs.
Me: This is a Beckett play and I want out.

Part II:
A: Go to (k). I went to (y) but the three most brilliant minds working in literary studies right now are at (k). You would be an idiot not to go there, but I have a feeling you won't, because you'll be an idiot about it.
Me: Well I've heard that all of the graduate students at (k) are miserable—a lot of current and recent ones have reached out to me with not so great things.
A: What is "happiness" anyway? Why would anyone do a PhD thinking they're going to be happy during it? 
Me: Okay that's a point. Were you happy at (y)?
A: Well, yes.
Me: I feel like I could be really happy at (x) but they apparently haven't placed a TT job in 3 or 4 years now.
B: There are no jobs. You will not get a job. Just go where you want to read and write for 6 years and expect to leave the profession after.
Me: But you have a job.
B: Do not pay attention to that. No one gets jobs.
Me: This is a Beckett play and I want out.